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GB Qualifying Fall

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abbaskip

Jul 7, 2010
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Controversial....Badminton teams were kicked out for similar.

Shane Kelly must be kicking himself for nothing thinking of that in 1996. There was actually talk around my club at the time, that he should have just 'fallen over' as he pulled his foot.
 
Andy99

Andy99

Jul 30, 2009
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abbaskip said:
Controversial....Badminton teams were kicked out for similar.

Shane Kelly must be kicking himself for nothing thinking of that in 1996. There was actually talk around my club at the time, that he should have just 'fallen over' as he pulled his foot.
Click to expand...

What the Badminten teams did was completely different.

They were deliberately trying to lose.:rolleyes:
 
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JayKosta

Nov 25, 2010
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The 'rules' probably have a section about 'sportsmanship' or 'spirit of the rules'.
There are always people to try to 'game the rules'.
Also, writing good rules that are clear and unambiguous is very difficult.

Knowing what you are 'allowed to do' for your advantage is very important.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY USA
 
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JimmyFingers

Jul 17, 2012
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As I said in the other thread, its gamesmanship, not cheating and not unsportmanslike. It certainly isn't pretty but no worse that going down in a penalty area when touched by a defender to get a penalty, or an F1 driver slowing to allow a teammate pass/

Given that both the French and Germans have fielding an extra track rider by hiding them in other disciplines neither of them have any cause for complaint. I also think Bauge shouldn't be riding at all having missed three tests.

It is also reasonably common practise, just normally you don't have naive youngsters who aren't that fluent in the language admitting to it.

Its up to the UCI to change the rule IMO
 
goggalor

goggalor

Oct 16, 2009
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Andy99 said:
What the Badminten teams did was completely different.

They were deliberately trying to lose.:rolleyes:
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They were trying to win the Tournament. Should never have been tossed out, the organisers ****ed up. Don't think GB should be tossed it either obviously, if they didn't break any rules, but it's certainly unsportsmanlike.
 
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abbaskip

Jul 7, 2010
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Andy99 said:
What the Badminten teams did was completely different.

They were deliberately trying to lose.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

They deliberately lost to get a better draw later in the competition, as it wasn't knock out.

The cyclists deliberately fell, to get another chance.

It's very similar. Exploiting what are essentially loop holes in rules for your own benefit.
 
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abbaskip

Jul 7, 2010
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JimmyFingers said:
As I said in the other thread, its gamesmanship, not cheating and not unsportmanslike. It certainly isn't pretty but no worse that going down in a penalty area when touched by a defender to get a penalty, or an F1 driver slowing to allow a teammate pass/

Given that both the French and Germans have fielding an extra track rider by hiding them in other disciplines neither of them have any cause for complaint. I also think Bauge shouldn't be riding at all having missed three tests.

It is also reasonably common practise, just normally you don't have naive youngsters who aren't that fluent in the language admitting to it.

Its up to the UCI to change the rule IMO
Click to expand...
It is gamesmanship, but still unsportsmanlike. As is diving in football, and allowing a team mate past you in F1 (which they've also made rules against now).

Losing the games in badminton is essentially exactly what F1 teams used to do. One driver would lose to benefit the teammate.
 
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Modiss

Jul 9, 2009
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Still can't work out some of the decisions, the GB rider seemed well past 30m when he took a dive, it's not half a lap like the pursuit.

I suppose he should be congratulated for being a GB rider starting a race with a viable plan.
 
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JimmyFingers

Jul 17, 2012
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abbaskip said:
It is gamesmanship, but still unsportsmanlike. As is diving in football, and allowing a team mate past you in F1 (which they've also made rules against now).

Losing the games in badminton is essentially exactly what F1 teams used to do. One driver would lose to benefit the teammate.
Click to expand...

Actually team orders are allowed again in F1. It was banned for one or two seasons but re-instated.

Ok perhaps not the most sportsman-like act, but within the rules of the sport. Every other team would have done the same, they just wouldn't have a naive 19 year old admit it to the media. No sympathy for the germans or French given their unsporting inclusion of extra sprinters by hiding them in other cycling disciplines. Oh and the fact Bauge missed 3 drugs tests.

As for footy, foul contact in the penalty area that doesn't necessarily mean the fouled player would go down is still a foul, however it is easily missed. Players often get that sort of contact and go down to make sure the officials are aware. I'm not talking about diving, another thing all together, I'm talking about significant contact that wouldn't necessarily cause a fall but the player goes down anyway. Again not pretty but gamesmanship.

The main point is this is within the rules. He effed up his start, he was all over the place and he went down. The UCI don't have a problem with it, neither do the other sprint teams.
 
Master50

Master50

Mar 10, 2009
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It isn't like this is the first time a rider or team has crashed to stay in contention. I think a US team did this in the 88 or 84 Olympics or maybe it was worlds but there was later admission that one of the riders took the deck or the team would have has fewer than 3 riders or some reason like this. Pulling a foot was a good reason to crash because you didn't get a restart for a pulled foot but did for a crash so pull your foot and tip over on purpose.
I am sure that every nation has pulled an intentional crash to get a restart. Call it one of the older tricks in the bag of tricks.
There is a huge risk too. I would bet at least 1 intentional crash has resulted in an injury that prevented a restart or spoiled the riders chances at later events.
Now if there was a reliable way to tell a fake crash from a ridiculous crash that looks like a fake, maybe then riders might get DQ's.
 
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abbaskip

Jul 7, 2010
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Other teams have complained, so I disagree that everyone would have done it/no one minds.

And Shane Kelly showed in 1996, that no every would do it.
 
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andrew_s

Jun 28, 2009
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It's not a question of gamesmanship at all.
Hindes' back wheel skidded twice in the first few turns of the pedals, so he got off the bike to make it obvious to the commissaires that there was a problem and get the restart. He swapped bikes for the second start - something on the tyre?
 
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Hawkwood

Feb 28, 2010
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andrew_s said:
It's not a question of gamesmanship at all.
Hindes' back wheel skidded twice in the first few turns of the pedals, so he got off the bike to make it obvious to the commissaires that there was a problem and get the restart. He swapped bikes for the second start - something on the tyre?
Click to expand...

The tough looking commissaire who dqed the British women's team was peering intently at something on the track. My guess for what it's worth is that Hinde caught some chalk or sweat on his back wheel.
 
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JimmyFingers

Jul 17, 2012
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King Boonen said:
Just because the have complained doesn't mean they wouldn't do it.
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Loved this from the French:

The French, who lost out to Britain in the final, did not formally complain about the tactic.

"You have to make the most of the rules. You have to play with them in a competition and no one should complain about that," France team's technical director, Isabelle Gautheron, told the Associated Press.

But she said she doubted that her riders would have done the same thing.

"Hindes prepared for that possibility and knew exactly what to do after his poor start. We don't share the same kind of mindset," she said.
Click to expand...

No but you do field an athlete that has missed three tests and exploit to loophole by listing a track rider in your road race team
 
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abbaskip

Jul 7, 2010
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King Boonen said:
Just because the have complained doesn't mean they wouldn't do it.
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I never said it does mean that.

Though Kelly has showed he wouldn't do it. And as I said (and you quoted me), my point wasn't about whether other teams would or wouldn't do it, but whether they cared.
 
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Freddythefrog

Jul 10, 2010
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Several months on and now we are on our high horses

Should have given the medal back. Hindes deliberately went down. The team sprint is about the start and the changeovers. Mess em up and you have lost the race. GB lost the race. Hindes went down and the judges did not have the bottle to take out two GB gold medals in 10 minutes.

As to "gamesmanship", that would have been how Lance would have described it. They are all at it, I will just do it a bit better. Sorry I did not buy it on the day and mistaken patriotism distorted many a person's sanity. I was working outside on the day. Listened to the radio. Went in and watched it on the TV and then barely watched any more track events at London. Not my heroes. There is no line you can hold between Lance - well I never broke and rules and Hinde . Give the gold back.
 
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