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Geraint Thomas, the next british hope

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Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
pastronef said:
DFA123 said:
Ridiculous performance today. Hopefully, he's just doing a Yates and peaking too early - and will crack in the Pyrenees. Imagine though if his first top 10 result in a GT is winning the Tour de France aged 32. Absolutely ludicrous.

he got twice 15th GC at the Tour, as a domestique, and crashing (in 2015)
Thanks for the info. If they are his best results it just shows what a limited GC rider he has always been at Grand Tours. The amount of dross that has managed at least one top 10 over the years is pretty considerable. Thomas has never even been that good.

Come on man, the guy has been a good climber for a number of years (do good performances in one week races not count?); this is not all that surprising. Plus he has focused on the Tour. His two main rivals are coming off the Giro.

The Alp d'Huez times aren't crazy (though admittedly it was a hard stage). Maybe the competition just isn't that great? Porte out, now Nibali. A few other riders a year or two from hitting their peak.
 
Re: Re:

alspacka said:
DFA123 said:
pastronef said:
magically?
after a 2nd in Suisse GC, a Paris-Nice GC, a domestique role that didnt allow him to go for GC?
He was allowed to go for the GC. He was the 'second card' in 2015-16 whose role was to stay high in the standings. Yet he couldn't do it - he tried to limit his losses, but he had to go so deep just to stay within a few minutes that he ended up cracking big time.

Henao, Poels, Landa, Froome and Nieve all managed to get top 10 GC finishes playing the same domestique role at Sky in recent years. So it was hardly an impossible task. But Thomas wasn't able to do it - because he was nowhere near a good enough climber. Now, two years later, aged 32, he's dropping everyone on multi-mountain Alpine stages of the Tour. It's a ludicrous transformation.

I do understand the scepticism about his transformation (I thought he should specialise for classics till like 2 years ago ffs), but I think just taking his GT results without context is a bit disingenuous. Firstly because he's been well on his way to better results a few times before bad luck/bike handling. Mainly though due to the hierarchical nature of the skytrain. Yes he's ridden a lot of tours, but largely further down the train wrecking himself in valleys and such.
Say hypothetically another one day man/all rounder in Kwiatkowski stops riding classics and focuses entirely on climbing/stage racing, all while keeping his mid train position in the Tour. He won't be getting anything better than top 20. Then, in 2022, at the age Thomas is now, he's given leadership role, would you be surprised to see him leading GC after 12 stages?
Also today's Alpe ascent was extremely slow.

Nice commonsense post.

If one was going to be shocked by Thomas, then the time to be shocked was around 2014/15. Since then he has been competitive against the likes of Contador and Porte on mountain stages. He even stayed with the favourites to the top of PDB in 2015 (it wasn't raced super hard, but still).

Maybe he was once a donkey. But any transformation happened long ago.
 
I think quite a few folks are getting things a bit confused.

On one hand, it ought not to be too shocking that G is doing well. He presented from a far earlier age that he might have the capacity, unlike CF. Not unlike TD, he also suits the narrative that he always had the engine and just had to lose the weight. That's CF's line, but it's completely hokey bs as it relates to Froome :)

On the other hand, G's best performances are really in line with good old George Hincapie's. If Hincapie had won le Tour, it would have been far, far funnier than anything Pharmstrong did. And a jump from 15th to winning is ridiculous.

All of this is a big if though. I still remember being in complete disbelief about Yates and he completely imploded. So it's a bit too early for me to jump into alien ridiculous commentary. It certainly is silly though :p
 
thehog said:
They lost 90 seconds to two minutes. At one point all four were soft pedalling across the Alpe side by side.
Shite. Nobody anywhere thinks they lost up to 2 mins. Not even the rest if the tin hatters. Admit it, it was a slow climb, it doesn't change anything else but it was slow as ***.
 
This year is the first year he's had domestiques duties lifted. That was his contract condition after Froomes AAF to remain with Sky afterall. Even while Dom to Froome he was running 4th overall until 3 days to go in 2015, so as protected leader he should make 2-3 more days to Paris.
 
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With G at least it is the transformation of a short distance thoroughbred into a stayer, with Froome it was the transformation of seaside donkey into Sea Biscuit. One has a faint air of plausibility about it, the other, slight less so :)

I wonder what Brailsfraud is whispering in G's ear?
 
of course it was slow because they backed right off. The non Sky riders knew they had no show with the doped team and their unbelievable control over them. So they all backed off.

It's much more obvious than Armstrong's days. At least he didn't turn non climbers into freaks. His stuff wasn't nearly as good.
 
Re:

Winterfold said:
With G at least it is the transformation of a short distance thoroughbred into a stayer, with Froome it was the transformation of seaside donkey into Sea Biscuit. One has a faint air of plausibility about it, the other, slight less so :)

I wonder what Brailsfraud is whispering in G's ear?

G was looking for another mountain to climb he had that much gas left. Incredible.
 
Re:

Craigee said:
of course it was slow because they backed right off. The non Sky riders knew they had no show with the doped team and their unbelievable control over them. So they all backed off.

It's much more obvious than Armstrong's days. At least he didn't turn non climbers into freaks. His stuff wasn't nearly as good.

All the riders looked evenly matched to me. Thomas won a sprint to win the stage that's all, which you'd expect he's a pursuit specialist and track experience will always count in a sprint situation. I'd say Doumilin is looking the stronger rider at the moment though. End of the day one would think a doped thoroughbred should beat a doped donkey should they not? No doubt UCI protection for Sky solves every argument and easily why everyone else is clean without any evidence lol!
 
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Re:

Saint Unix said:
Yep, and all three British, riding for the British team that spends MILLIONS hiring non-British riders that have and always have had far moret talent and pedigree but still can't match the level of the post-transformation British boys.
It has happened in the past with Italy and Spain. All of a sudden you see Italians winning in every possible sport while Conconi is the main doctor in CONI. The same thing happened with Spanish in the 00s: from tennis to cycling, to football you see them winning everywhere. Now it's GB team. Just they managed to find the right sauce before the others.
 
Re:

samhocking said:
You'd think with magic sauce, magic wheels, magic protection, magic money, magic powers Sky would be a bit better than they are lol! Turns out all of the above gained Thomas 2 seconds yesterday lol!

Yes, on yesterday's stage.

But in the last 6 years they have been quite impressive and dominating.
 
Re:

samhocking said:
You'd think with magic sauce, magic wheels, magic protection, magic money, magic powers Sky would be a bit better than they are lol! Turns out all of the above gained Thomas 2 seconds yesterday lol!
That is of course assuming Thomas' natural level on a stage like yesterday is exactly Dumoulin's level or exactly one second faster than Bardet.

Thomas could just as well be finishing 30 minutes down on the winner without all of Sky's magic gear.

I know... logic and reason is hard.
 
Re: Re:

samhocking said:
Craigee said:
of course it was slow because they backed right off. The non Sky riders knew they had no show with the doped team and their unbelievable control over them. So they all backed off.

It's much more obvious than Armstrong's days. At least he didn't turn non climbers into freaks. His stuff wasn't nearly as good.

All the riders looked evenly matched to me. Thomas won a sprint to win the stage that's all, which you'd expect he's a pursuit specialist and track experience will always count in a sprint situation. I'd say Doumilin is looking the stronger rider at the moment though. End of the day one would think a doped thoroughbred should beat a doped donkey should they not? No doubt UCI protection for Sky solves every argument and easily why everyone else is clean without any evidence lol!
Thomas winning the sprint is not a surprise. Just being there at the end is what is ridiculous.
 
Re:

samhocking said:
You'd think with magic sauce, magic wheels, magic protection, magic money, magic powers Sky would be a bit better than they are lol! Turns out all of the above gained Thomas 2 seconds yesterday lol!

Gained two seconds? It's actually gained him 4 hours on his first tour ride. Amazing how one can go from a non climber to freaky and better than Nibali, Quintana, Landa. The same happened with Wiggo too of course. Amazing. Well what is amazing is that anyone believes they've done it clean.
 
Re: Re:

veganrob said:
samhocking said:
Craigee said:
of course it was slow because they backed right off. The non Sky riders knew they had no show with the doped team and their unbelievable control over them. So they all backed off.

It's much more obvious than Armstrong's days. At least he didn't turn non climbers into freaks. His stuff wasn't nearly as good.

All the riders looked evenly matched to me. Thomas won a sprint to win the stage that's all, which you'd expect he's a pursuit specialist and track experience will always count in a sprint situation. I'd say Doumilin is looking the stronger rider at the moment though. End of the day one would think a doped thoroughbred should beat a doped donkey should they not? No doubt UCI protection for Sky solves every argument and easily why everyone else is clean without any evidence lol!
Thomas winning the sprint is not a surprise. Just being there at the end is what is ridiculous.

I don't agree with that. he should be too r**ted to sprint like that not being a natural climber and having just ridden 3 mountains.
 
Re: Re:

Craigee said:
veganrob said:
samhocking said:
Craigee said:
of course it was slow because they backed right off. The non Sky riders knew they had no show with the doped team and their unbelievable control over them. So they all backed off.

It's much more obvious than Armstrong's days. At least he didn't turn non climbers into freaks. His stuff wasn't nearly as good.

All the riders looked evenly matched to me. Thomas won a sprint to win the stage that's all, which you'd expect he's a pursuit specialist and track experience will always count in a sprint situation. I'd say Doumilin is looking the stronger rider at the moment though. End of the day one would think a doped thoroughbred should beat a doped donkey should they not? No doubt UCI protection for Sky solves every argument and easily why everyone else is clean without any evidence lol!
Thomas winning the sprint is not a surprise. Just being there at the end is what is ridiculous.

I don't agree with that. he should be too r**ted to sprint like that not being a natural climber and having just ridden 3 mountains.
You're right considereing those circumstances. I was more referring to he would be better sprinter otherwise.
 
Re: Re:

ahsoe said:
samhocking said:
You'd think with magic sauce, magic wheels, magic protection, magic money, magic powers Sky would be a bit better than they are lol! Turns out all of the above gained Thomas 2 seconds yesterday lol!

Yes, on yesterday's stage.

But in the last 6 years they have been quite impressive and dominating.
In Tour they have, nowhere near Quickstep in one day stuff.
 
Re: Re:

Craigee said:
samhocking said:
You'd think... Sky would be a bit better ...Turns out all of the above gained Thomas 2 seconds yesterday lol!

Gained two seconds? It's actually gained him 4 hours on his first tour ride. Amazing how one can go from a non climber to freaky and better than Nibali, Quintana, Landa. The same happened with Wiggo too of course. Amazing. Well what is amazing is that anyone believes they've done it clean.
It may be the elephant in the room, but let's not forget the transformation of Froome. Just look at his palmares when he was 20-26. He was basically a nobody. Even when he got to Sky, Brailsford's evaluation of his potential was not very high. But then shazam, a few "marginal gains" later, and he's one of the greatest riders in history.

Maybe in a couple years they'll sign Mark Christian, Sam Brand, or Daniel Pearson and they'll win a few GT's as well. (Apologies for dragging those guys names into the Clinic. For sarcastic purposes only).
 
Re:

samhocking said:
Where is the evidence that previous palamares holds any weight to success now? I just don't view it like that. 2-3 years to get from amateur to pro is normal. To get from Dom to GC is really not much of a step. As they say you're only as good as your next race.

And sometimes that step is 86th in Tour of Poland to GC in a GT :cool:
 
Re:

samhocking said:
Where is the evidence that previous palamares holds any weight to success now? I just don't view it like that. 2-3 years to get from amateur to pro is normal. To get from Dom to GC is really not much of a step. As they say you're only as good as your next race.

seriously????????????????????????????????????? (there cannot be enough question marks)????????????????????????????????

eh...none...I'm entering the Vuelta...put your money on me :D :D
 
Re:

samhocking said:
Where is the evidence that previous palamares holds any weight to success now? I just don't view it like that. 2-3 years to get from amateur to pro is normal. To get from Dom to GC is really not much of a step. As they say you're only as good as your next race.
Find one clean rider with a career path like Wiggins, Froome or Thomas.

There are one, because that stuff just doesn't happen in the real world. There's no-one out there who focuses on riding a bike their whole like (like Froome, Wiggins and Thomas all did) and then suddenly (after the age of 25 nonetheless) they figure out the big secret and become world beaters over the course of just a couple of years.

Let me correct that. It's not a couple of years. It's months, or even weeks in the case of Froome.

Since it's so normal, all I ask is one other rider that did it to the degree of the British Sky boys. Should be easy if it's so normal.
 
Re: Re:

samhocking said:
ahsoe said:
samhocking said:
You'd think with magic sauce, magic wheels, magic protection, magic money, magic powers Sky would be a bit better than they are lol! Turns out all of the above gained Thomas 2 seconds yesterday lol!

Yes, on yesterday's stage.

But in the last 6 years they have been quite impressive and dominating.
In Tour they have, nowhere near Quickstep in one day stuff.

One day stuff? Strawman right there. Sky have never bothered with One Day races their focus has always been the Tour de France because it has the biggest global publicity for the sponsor. When you introduce strawman arguments it means you are running out of ammo.
 

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