Gert Steegmans

[WonderLance]

Still waiting for your defense of your assertion of "Wild Accusations". It is blanket statements like this the kill your creditability.

I thought it was my username and support of BPC that killed my creditability?

 

[Anonymous]

This is the classic argument used by those who wish to crush civil liberties. "Well if your not doing anything wrong then you have nothing to fear". Perhaps, he has principles and is willing to stick by them. Something that I find rather admirable.

And If I knew that there was a lab out there with a history of dodgy results I certainly wouldn’t sign that contract. One stuff up on their part and not only are you gone for two years but you have no money to support yourself.

Which labs? This is the essence of the Floyd Landis argument. I don't remember the argument working out too well for FL.

So, if you've got something to suggest "dodgy" results, I'd like to see it.

Additionally, all civil liberties aside, do you (in your profession) have to submit information, months in advance, as to where you are going to be and when you are going to be there to enable your employer to take body fluid samples for the purpose of drug testing? I sincerely doubt it.

Pro Cycling is not a "normal" workplace.

 

[SpeedWay]

I thought it was my username and support of BPC that killed my creditability?

Don't worry about your creditability here unless your thinking of trying to join a circus or some narrow minded cult.

 

[WonderLance]

Additionally, all civil liberties aside, do you (in your profession) have to submit information, months in advance, as to where you are going to be and when you are going to be there to enable your employer to take body fluid samples for the purpose of drug testing? I sincerely doubt it.

Pro Cycling is not a "normal" workplace.

So because pro cyclists are abused already it makes it ok to take it a step further? I hope you never get into a position of power with that attitude.

 

[Anonymous]

So because pro cyclists are abused already it makes it ok to take it a step further? I hope you never get into a position of power with that attitude.

I have yet to see a gun to the head of any pro cyclist forcing him or her to race. Have you?

If there was something akin to doping in your workplace that could potentially eliminate your profession (assuming you were not participating in the detrimental behaviour) what would you be willing to submit to?

The real abuse is happening to those that don't dope in the peleton by those who do.

 

[Anonymous]

And If I knew that there was a lab out there with a history of dodgy results I certainly wouldn’t sign that contract.

I'll ask again, which lab?

 

[sgreene]

death threat?

you come on to engage in Armstrong propaganda, and interpret that as a death threat. Better take it down to the local police.

Since when is it propaganda when someone simply points out that you are implying guilt on someone for whom there is no evidence of wrongdoing? If I were ever on trial, I would certainly not want you on the jury.

 

[Dude17]

I'll ask again, which lab?

Okay, to help stop the thread from being highjacked further (I swear, it is getting so that you can't read past the first two pages without weeding through a flamewar between trolls), he said "if." He didn't say her personally knew. "IF" Steegmans had doubts about the labs, then perhaps that is why he didn't sign. Easy to be a cover screen but fanboy or whatever his name is, isn't saying "he" personally knew of a lab.

 

[Jonathan]

Since when is it propaganda when someone simply points out that you are implying guilt on someone for whom there is no evidence of wrongdoing? If I were ever on trial, I would certainly not want you on the jury.

You think there is no evidence against Armstrong?

http://www.cyclingforums.com/doping-cycling/380533-true-lance-armstrong-cheating-2.html#post3901805

 

[Anonymous]

Okay, to help stop the thread from being highjacked further (I swear, it is getting so that you can't read past the first two pages without weeding through a flamewar between trolls), he said "if." He didn't say her personally knew. "IF" Steegmans had doubts about the labs, then perhaps that is why he didn't sign. Easy to be a cover screen but fanboy or whatever his name is, isn't saying "he" personally knew of a lab.

Perhaps, but he speculates that the reason Steegmans did not sign is due to questionable lab results. This is not the first time this suggestion has been made and I'd like to see something to support the speculation.

If there is something out there to suggest labs are turning out shoddy work then let's see it. I think credible information along those lines could totally devastate the anti-doping measures that are in place.

 

[blackcat]

Since when is it propaganda when someone simply points out that you are implying guilt on someone for whom there is no evidence of wrongdoing? If I were ever on trial, I would certainly not want you on the jury.

this is a forum, where opinions reign, not a criminal court. We do not need to close our mind to performances that do not meet the test of credibility.

 

[Colonel]

Seriously, WTF is WonderLance? It sounds like something Dirk Diggler would have??

 

[Jonathan]

Seriously, WTF is WonderLance? It sounds like something Dirk Diggler would have??

It appears to be sensitive and easily stepped on.

 

[krebs303]

Seriously, WTF is WonderLance?

It's like "Through the Looking Glass" for Lance fans.
Now where is that hookah smoking caterpillar? It's 4:20 somewhere

 

[psychlist]

Yet another thread being hijacked.

If there is something of substantance you would like contribute then feel free. In fact, most here enjoy an in-depth, thoughtful, fact-based discussion.

Give it a try.

Substitute inuendo for fact and I am in agreement.

 

[psychlist]

If I were a pro cyclist that did not dope then I would not have a problem with it especially given the problems surrounding my profession. Does it bother you that Steegmans was the only one (reportedly) who did not sign? McEwen made some noise, but signed.

How do you explain this?

I explain that by saying there were those thatthought the agreement would not hold up under judicial scrutiny. Refusing to sign the agreement by Steegmans is completely circumstantial evidence. It doesn't prove or disprove anything.

 

[Anonymous]

Substitute inuendo for fact and I am in agreement.

I explain that by saying there were those thatthought the agreement would not hold up under judicial scrutiny. Refusing to sign the agreement by Steegmans is completely circumstantial evidence. It doesn't prove or disprove anything.

Read the entire thread please.

 

[psychlist]

Read the entire thread please.

Look up the definition of fact please.

 

[Anonymous]

Look up the definition of fact please.

Ok. Don't read it.

 

[WonderLance]

Perhaps, but he speculates that the reason Steegmans did not sign is due to questionable lab results. This is not the first time this suggestion has been made and I'd like to see something to support the speculation.

If there is something out there to suggest labs are turning out shoddy work then let's see it. I think credible information along those lines could totally devastate the anti-doping measures that are in place.

I would have thought that someone who uses an Ayn Rand (one of the greatest advocates of libertarian theory) quote as their signature would be more sensitive to personal liberty.

 

[Anonymous]

I would have thought that someone who uses an Ayn Rand (one of the greatest advocates of libertarian theory) quote as their signature would be more sensitive to personal liberty.

Well, Ayn Rand would likely argue that any drug testing would intrude on personal liberty. So what's your point?

Maybe Lance is right. What cycling really needs is a union. Kinda like the Baseball Players Association here in the USA. That way the pro cyclists can dope all day long and everything gets neatly swept under the rug. For that matter, get rid of testing in the Olympics too.

I think cycling is closing in on that type of arrangement now. Pat McQuaid recently stated there will be no more positives in future Tours de France. Doesn't that make you feel better? I know I do.

 

[lagartija]

If I were a pro cyclist that did not dope then I would not have a problem with it especially given the problems surrounding my profession. Does it bother you that Steegmans was the only one (reportedly) who did not sign? McEwen made some noise, but signed.

How do you explain this?

hey scott , .....i read through the thread and im not defending anyone , but just to get this back on topic , ..... i would not have signed that either , call it principle , legal or personal rights , whatever but common 5 times there salary.........would you really be ok with that ?
you would sign that document...........

 

[Anonymous]

hey scott , .....i read through the thread and im not defending anyone , but just to get this back on topic , ..... i would not have signed that either , call it principle , legal or personal rights , whatever but common 5 times there salary.........would you really be ok with that ?
you would sign that document...........

I would for these reasons:

1. If I were clean, then no worries about getting busted for doping.
2. If it were the profession I loved, then there is nothing nefarious or inappropriate about signing something that I will never deal with so long as I stay clean anyway.
3. It would show my employer that I am dedicated to my profession and the employment opportunity with which I was presented.
4. It isn't a forceful abdication of my personal liberties. I am free to choose another team or profession. Nobody is making him ride his bike for a living.

 

[WonderLance]

I would for these reasons:

1. If I were clean, then no worries about getting busted for doping.
2. If it were the profession I loved, then there is nothing nefarious or inappropriate about signing something that I will never deal with so long as I stay clean anyway.
3. It would show my employer that I am dedicated to my profession and the employment opportunity with which I was presented.
4. It isn't a forceful abdication of my personal liberties. I am free to choose another team or profession. Nobody is making him ride his bike for a living.

And this is what he has done. He has moved to another, better team. But you seem to think it is evidence of doping.

 

[usedtobefast]

i would never sign any such document. no way. f that.