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Giant v Colnago

Jul 4, 2009
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Rabobank switched frames this year from Colnago to Giant.
So far this year the Oranje boys can't seem to stay upright on the Giant frames and a lot of crashes have happened.

Horrillo, Menchov, Gesink have all come off.

Obviously road conditions play a part but are Giant bikes difficult to handle?

Looking at the photo of a banged up Robert Gesink being paced back to the peloton yesterday the riding position and bike setup looked really uncomfortable.

Should they have stuck with Ernesto's best?
 
Mar 11, 2009
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rabofan said:
Rabobank switched frames this year from Colnago to Giant.
So far this year the Oranje boys can't seem to stay upright on the Giant frames and a lot of crashes have happened.

Horrillo, Menchov, Gesink have all come off.

Obviously road conditions play a part but are Giant bikes difficult to handle?

Looking at the photo of a banged up Robert Gesink being paced back to the peloton yesterday the riding position and bike setup looked really uncomfortable.

Should they have stuck with Ernesto's best?

Road conditions, rider abilities, many other things but it ain't the fact that they are using Giant instead of much hyped Colnagos.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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rabofan said:
Rabobank switched frames this year from Colnago to Giant.
So far this year the Oranje boys can't seem to stay upright on the Giant frames and a lot of crashes have happened.

Horrillo, Menchov, Gesink have all come off.

Obviously road conditions play a part but are Giant bikes difficult to handle?

Looking at the photo of a banged up Robert Gesink being paced back to the peloton yesterday the riding position and bike setup looked really uncomfortable.

Should they have stuck with Ernesto's best?

It ain't the bike frames. Columbia rode the same frames last year and had a great season.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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Most definitely nothing to do with the bike. These guys a pro cyclists. It's not going to be the bike that makes them fall off, unless it breaks.
 
Jul 6, 2009
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yeah nothing to do with the frame besides colnagos are outdated overpriced prestige bikes. they dont have the performance numbers of most other manufacturers frames anyways.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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It's not the arrow....It's the Indian.

I miss Colnago in the pro peloton though. Sven Nys is really the only rider of note that is consistently winning on one. Colnagos really were most sought after bike for decades up until Cervélo came along. And I think they still have a stranglehold (Nugent) on the record of most World Champion wins than any other bike. Pros that are even sponsored by different mfgs, are riding Colnagos as personal bikes, nothing has changed really, just that Taiwan is the new Lombardia.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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forty four said:
yeah nothing to do with the frame besides colnagos are outdated overpriced prestige bikes. they dont have the performance numbers of most other manufacturers frames anyways.

pardon? outdated and overpriced? versus what? simply because they have 'traditional' round profile tubes does not mean that they have as much engineering as a made in china flavour of the month shaped carbon frame?

check Colnagos engineering credentials. They are the only ISO9002 certified company manufacturing their own frames to my knowledge. Ironically, Giant may also have this accreditation given the amount of frames that they make for other people.

Colnago Extreme Power / Cervelo S3 / Pinarello Prince all retail for within 5% of each other in the UK. All small, niche builders with a fair degree of success in the peloton and, more importantly to us privateers, with good longevity records.

Whether these frames are worth the extra cash for us mortals is a different question but please don't make sweeping generalisations!
 
Jun 16, 2009
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rabofan said:
.Obviously road conditions play a part but are Giant bikes difficult to handle?QUOTE]

I was on a team that switched to the sloping top tube Giants from traditional frame and the Giant rep said "you have to give it about 15 minutes to get comfortable, then you will never want to ride any other bike" this was back when ONCE was riding them, he was right they felt awkward back then but then you adjusted your weight properly and the bike felt like it was attached to your body extremely responsive, stable even at the highest speed. What was amazing then it was so quick you could change your line in the middle of a turn.

However that was 8 years ago and all bikes are much better handling now, so the difference between Colnago & Giant would not cause a Professional rider to crash. Like i said even back then it only took one short rider to adjust.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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LugHugger said:
pardon? outdated and overpriced? versus what? simply because they have 'traditional' round profile tubes does not mean that they have as much engineering as a made in china flavour of the month shaped carbon frame?

check Colnagos engineering credentials. They are the only ISO9002 certified company manufacturing their own frames to my knowledge. Ironically, Giant may also have this accreditation given the amount of frames that they make for other people.

Colnago Extreme Power / Cervelo S3 / Pinarello Prince all retail for within 5% of each other in the UK. All small, niche builders with a fair degree of success in the peloton and, more importantly to us privateers, with good longevity records.

Whether these frames are worth the extra cash for us mortals is a different question but please don't make sweeping generalisations!

Errr..if you go to Italy and go to 'Colnago', you find some offices. No manufacturing since Colnago owns none. They contract out all their manufacturing and have for years.
 
rabofan said:
Rabobank switched frames this year from Colnago to Giant.
So far this year the Oranje boys can't seem to stay upright on the Giant frames and a lot of crashes have happened.

Horrillo, Menchov, Gesink have all come off.

Obviously road conditions play a part but are Giant bikes difficult to handle?

Looking at the photo of a banged up Robert Gesink being paced back to the peloton yesterday the riding position and bike setup looked really uncomfortable.

Should they have stuck with Ernesto's best?

what tyres are they using??
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Pietro said:
Errr..if you go to Italy and go to 'Colnago', you find some offices. No manufacturing since Colnago owns none. They contract out all their manufacturing and have for years.

Why don't you stop now. I have a friend in Montreal that spent a week in Italy to visit some of the product manufacturers for their lines he has been in the Colnago factory and except for some Of their domestic lines (sold in Italy only) and the CLX all Colnagos are Made in Italy. Ferrari is the main supplier of Colnago's Carbon parts and is the source for a lot of their Carbon engineering base knowledge. I have seen more than 1 recent video of Colnago's production lines and unless there are a lot of Italians in Taiwan the factory is in Italy.
Now if your point is that Colnago doesn't own the factory, so what? All the bikes made there are Colnagos. Heck most of the guys building the Carbon bikes are wearing Colnago logos on their work clothes.
I own 3 and there may be bikes of equal quality and performance there are not many better.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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Pietro said:
Errr..if you go to Italy and go to 'Colnago', you find some offices. No manufacturing since Colnago owns none. They contract out all their manufacturing and have for years.

Sorry Pietro, Master50 is absolutely right. There are only 3 lower models that are sourced from Taiwan, all their top end carbon is made in house. The question mark is still up for the CLX though. I was under the impression when the CLX came out in '06 that they were sourcing that from Giant in Taiwan. I remember it was big news as all the Colnago tifosi were up in arms that the mighty Colnago finally gave in to Asia. Maybe James Huang could confirm that.

Pietro you honestly believe that the company that is responsible for countless advances in carbon tech just up and packed up their lab to outsource all their bikes from Asia? Heck, even the steel Master is still made in Cambiago.;)
 
Jun 16, 2009
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Archibald said:
what tyres are they using??

that could very well be the answer, my other thought was possibly wheels.
i used to always race on handbuilt wheels from the same builder. I did not fully appreciate them until i did a criterium with a sharp little downhill corner followed by a steep uphill.I borrowed some wheels and everytime it went around the corner my back wheel would really flex and fishtail. I have found some zipps to be the same, when i lean on them in a hard corner about 30mph there is alot of flex and i lose some traction...
 
Mar 19, 2009
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LugHugger said:
Mmmmmm, LugHugger like Master X Light :D

Yeah! No kidding. This was my main ride for about 10 years. The photo was taken 8 years ago. That's a MasterXLight under me. MADE IN ITALY!!!
It's currently waiting for a repaint, and will make it's debut next season as a Master Olympic/Fabio Casartelli tribute color scheme.

Check out my Brikos, circa 1996!!! Do I look like Ballarini in his prime??:D
Durand_recon%20copy.jpg
 
Mar 19, 2009
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This article may be 4 years old, and I'm willing to bet that the top range is still made in-house, unless you can show us some proof that Colnago completely shut down their carbon lab since then.

“This is a major step forward for the Italian bicycle industry,” said Ernesto Colnago. High-end Colnago bikes will continue to be made in Italy. The Taiwan-sourced bikes will ship from 2006 model year.

Last week, Colnago Ernesto & C. srl of Cambiago, Italy, became a sponsor member of the A-Team, a Taiwan-based sourcing and product promotion group. A-Team includes members Giant, Merida, SRAM and other Taiwan-based component makers.

Colnago, the first Italian company to join the A-Team, joins the US National Bicycle Dealer Association, Scott USA, Specialized and Trek.

The relationship with the A-Team will enable Colnago to source "top-quality mid-range complete road bicycles from the top-tier of Taiwan bicycle manufacturing," said Colnago, "ensuring that Asian-sourced bicycles that bear the Colnago name are equal quality to the mid-range bicycle models formerly sourced in Italy.

Colnago's top-end bikes will still be promoted as 'Made in Italy'.

“At this point in time, in Italy, and in Europe it is unfortunately no longer feasible to cost-effectively manufacture mid and low end bicycles," said Ernesto Colnago.

"[We aren't] interested in low-end bicycles; it’s not in our DNA. So after several years of research and careful investigation, Colnago has decided to manufacture several mid-range complete bicycle models in Taiwan. Why? First of all, at Colnago, we understand that it’s important for people who are buying their first racing bicycle, or don’t have a lot of money, that the bicycle they buy offers the best performance and value for their money. This is what our customers have been asking for.”

“Second, for a number of years, we have been observing many manufacturers in Italy have been moving their production to Asia. The majority of bicycles with American and European brands are actually made in the Far East.

“We have now made an important choice for our customers. Let me be completely clear; all Colnago bicycles will be designed and engineered in our Cambiago, Italy headquarters as always. But starting later in 2005, we will have two different production sources for Colnago bicycles. ALL of our high-end bicycles will be made in Italy as they have been since 1954. All of our mid-range bicycles will be designed in Italy and produced in Taiwan."

Colnago doesn't want IBDs and consumers to think this the beginning of the end of producing innovative products:

"Don’t worry," he stresses, "we are developing at our Cambiago headquarters many exciting new high-end products for 2006.”

He sees the move to Taiwan as step he had to take:

“Today, most Italian bicycle makers build product in Taiwan and China, but few will admit it. At Colnago, we see too many products that have a “Made in Italy” label, but in reality, we know are made in Asia. Colnago, with our serious approach that has always set us apart from the bicycle manufacturers, are openly stating that thanks to our collaboration with the A-Team, we will be sourcing some mid-range bicycles in Asia. But our usual customers, who count on “Made In Italy” high-end bicycles should rest assured that these bicycles and all new models to come from Colnago will continue to be conceived, developed, tested and built in Italy.”

Colnago’s Asian sourced mid-range complete bicycle models will be available exclusively in European and Asian markets and not North America.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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"Ferarri would never put their name on a bike made in Asia. I wish my [bike building] colleagues would have more belief in Made in Italy products.”

~Ernesto Colnago

Well, that eliminates one of the models from the "Made in Italy" skeptics.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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I don't know why I'm making such a big deal of this Colnago thing. Yeah, I have one, I like it, It's fun to ride, has that mythic handling that Colnago is famous for, it was made in Italy, but Who really cares where the bike is made.. right? As long as it serves you well. Those days of taking great pride of where your bike was made, especially the different regions of Italy, is basically over. Unless you're a part of the custom steel crowd, where Oregon is the new Lombardia, not that there is anything wrong with that.;)

Oh well, adding to the stable once agan, so I'm just a couple weeks away from receiving an unbranded, factory direct, carbon F&F, and it's made in......TAIWAN, not MILAN. :eek:
 
Mar 15, 2009
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Master50 said:
Why don't you stop now. I have a friend in Montreal that spent a week in Italy to visit some of the product manufacturers for their lines he has been in the Colnago factory and except for some Of their domestic lines (sold in Italy only) and the CLX all Colnagos are Made in Italy. Ferrari is the main supplier of Colnago's Carbon parts and is the source for a lot of their Carbon engineering base knowledge. I have seen more than 1 recent video of Colnago's production lines and unless there are a lot of Italians in Taiwan the factory is in Italy.
Now if your point is that Colnago doesn't own the factory, so what? All the bikes made there are Colnagos. Heck most of the guys building the Carbon bikes are wearing Colnago logos on their work clothes.
I own 3 and there may be bikes of equal quality and performance there are not many better.

Ferrari DOES NOT supply Colnago's carbon parts. One carbon supplier is in Italy, the other in Belgium. The videos may be of production lines, but they're not Colnago production lines. Colnago would like you to think that, but it simply isn't the case.
Colnago is a Master at marketing and myth-building. Do you really think Colnago could supply worldwide demand from a workshop in a basement under his house AND produce steel, carbon and alu frames from it?
Colnago's 'workshop' is a showroom opened once or twice a year for guided press and dealer tours. When the visitors leave, the show ends and the 'master craftsmen' go back to their day jobs doing telesales to distributors, etc.

You've as much chance of Colnago building your next bike as you have of Santa Claus delivering it. Mrs. Field doesn't bake cookies in her kitchen, Ben and Jerry don't make ice-cream in a shack, and Colnago doesn't make bikes in his basement.

Sorry to burst anyone's romantic Italophile bubble, but that's the way it is.
 
Mar 15, 2009
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RDV4ROUBAIX said:
I wonder what the guy mitering the tubes in the video does for his day job? Italian Sumo wrestling?

Many of Colnago's sales team are ex-framebuilders employed by Colnago, because of their knowledge of framebuilding and the bike industry. They'd probably still be building frames today, instead of sitting in a booth, if Italian framebuilders hadn't decided to outsource manufacturing to the Far-East. Framebuilding is a job like any other. When you get outsourced, you take whatever else is available.
 
Mar 19, 2009
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frameforum,

A little skeptical of what you're saying. Ernesto is sitting on a million dollars worth of frame building tools, and not producing anything out of the shop? I don't know man, seems like a stretch to me.
 
Mar 15, 2009
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RDV4ROUBAIX said:
frameforum,

A little skeptical of what you're saying. Ernesto is sitting on a million dollars worth of frame building tools, and not producing anything out of the shop? I don't know man, seems like a stretch to me.

What 'million dollars worth of tooling'?

Italy is no different from any other post-industrial nation.
Framebuilders don't live the life of the family in the Dolmio advert, sitting around drinking Barolo and talking Giro.
They have families to feed, bills to pay and lives to live - in the real world. Same as framebuilders the world over. So, you take whatever you can get and do what the boss tells you to do. Not many will be able to up sticks, family and all, and follow the work to China.

How difficult is it to hand out a few polo shirts carrying your logo to the workers at your supplier's factory - where the machines and production lines are - before the film crew starts filming?

Been there, done that. It's not a stretch. Its basic marketing savvy.