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Giant Warranty Issue

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Mar 15, 2009
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Iceman,

Sort of related, today Cyclesport Victoria (Aust) held a Kermesse at Calder Park, 1hr + 3 laps. The bell lap, the usual madness, bang - down came a rider at the back 3rd of the pack. The fella was slow to get up so we went over to check on his condition. He was ok suffering the usual road rash & injured pride. His ride - A Giant, with his forks snapped in the exact same way as yours, near identical. Take into account the higher speeds (60km/h) etc. but, most people were absolutely shocked to see the amount of damage done and how cleanly the forks snapped.
 
May 22, 2009
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AusMatty said:
His ride - A Giant, with his forks snapped in the exact same way as yours, near identical. Take into account the higher speeds (60km/h) etc. but, most people were absolutely shocked to see the amount of damage done and how cleanly the forks snapped.

You pretty much summed up exactly how I felt when I picked up by bike after crashing. The complete shearing off of both fork blades absolutely shocked me beyond belief, considering the low speeds. I guess at 60km/h it makes it easier to break something, but still, things shouldn't fail like that, then again, I'm not sure exactly of the circumstances of the crash, so I don't want to pass judgement. Could you explain the crash in a bit more detail? Hope the guy has insurance, because otherwise he will get nothing from Giant. Let me know what happens.

Cheers,
-Iceman
 
Apr 16, 2009
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Iceman. To let you and everybody else who has read about what happend to him, I have a cannondale super six that just last week my fork broke going down hill. I did not impact anything. nothing abnormal. I was going around a curve it snaped and down hard I went. No reason at all, it just snaped worse than yours when it hit the ground the handle bars came around and broke the top tube. I have talked to cannondale they are going to let me know about what they are going to do about it tommorow. I will get back with you to let you know what happened. The owner of the bike shop I took it to could not believe it ethier. He said he has never seen a fork brake.
 
May 22, 2009
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mike25 said:
I have a cannondale super six that just last week my fork broke going down hill. I did not impact anything. nothing abnormal. I was going around a curve it snaped and down hard I went. No reason at all, it just snaped worse than yours when it hit the ground the handle bars came around and broke the top tube.

Wow that sounds really bad, especially going down hill. Hope you are okay mate.

But from what you're telling me, it definitely sounds like they should replace your entire frameset, if not put you on a new bike. But let me know what they decide and how it all turns out.

-Iceman
 
May 12, 2009
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Well, carbon does fail catastrophically...
In the best of all possible worlds, Giant probably should have taken care of him. And a smaller manufacturer probably would have.

But from a shop point of view, this appears to be the classic JRA. As in, I was Just Riding Along when ...(fill in the blank with horrible bike damage). Maybe it did happen that way, but shops and manufacturers also see plenty of the other way around, i.e. bikes being abused and people claiming they weren't. This is probably the best case for having a good relationship with your local shop and buying a bike there. They will be willing to help you out.
Otherwise, sh!t happens, and you take your chances.
 
Apr 16, 2009
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slcbiker said:
Well, carbon does fail catastrophically...
In the best of all possible worlds, Giant probably should have taken care of him. And a smaller manufacturer probably would have.

But from a shop point of view, this appears to be the classic JRA. As in, I was Just Riding Along when ...(fill in the blank with horrible bike damage). Maybe it did happen that way, but shops and manufacturers also see plenty of the other way around, i.e. bikes being abused and people claiming they weren't. This is probably the best case for having a good relationship with your local shop and buying a bike there. They will be willing to help you out.
Otherwise, sh!t happens, and you take your chances.

I actually believe it's the other way around, bicycle parts failing due to manufacturing faults and shops/manufacturers hiding behind the "abuse" defence. That's speaking from experience when my saddle rail cracked and the shop employee accused me of riding roughly over bumps! The manufacturer also denied any manufacturing fault but I got my money back via consumer protection laws.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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you crashed it end of story , would you rather they broke 6 months later down the track when you were descending some hill at 80 clicks.Whatever you did they didn't like but I don't see a wave of recalls on Giant, Colnago, BH or whoever else they make forks for.
It looks catastrophic but thats the nature of carbon , back in the pre-carbon days you would get up from a heavy crash & find steel forks bent back & frame kinked on the top & down tube, sometimes rideable sometimes not . Its no coincidence that when you watch the Tour nowadays after a crash the team mechanic has a bike ready in hand rather than wheels because bikes nowadays don't bounce.

http://www.bustedcarbon.com if you want to see some broken bikes.
 
Slumdog-Zomergem said:
http://www.bustedcarbon.com if you want to see some broken bikes.

That site has a lot of interesting photos. It is too bad there is hardly any info about what caused each break. Some of the stuff is pretty scary.

There are also several shots of broken forks that have both arms sheered off at roughly the same distance from the crown, some with intact wheels. So maybe this is a fairly common mode of failure.

This R-SYS crash looks painful. Break your carbon spokes and the guy behind you faceplants into a fence post.

2301464060_92b42431d7.jpg
 
May 22, 2009
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Slumdog-Zomergem said:
Whatever you did they didn't like but I don't see a wave of recalls on Giant, Colnago, BH or whoever else they make forks for.

Giant makes forks only for Giant bikes, Colnago, BH make their own forks. Just thought I'd clear that up.

Slumdog-Zomergem said:
would you rather they broke 6 months later down the track when you were descending some hill at 80 clicks

no.

I would rather the manufacturer created a quality product for the money i paid and if it broke within normal operating parameters, i would expect them to replace the broken part at the very least.

Slumdog-Zomergem said:
you crashed it end of story

No.
That's not the end of the story, far from it actually.

Don't you get it? this is exactly the type of mentality that i'm vehemently against in the cycling industry. Yes i did crash, yes i take responsibility, but if i don't subject it to forces anywhere near its operating limit, and it breaks, then yes, i also do have a right to ask why it could have possibly gone wrong. If I crash out and smash the gear levers and rip the saddle into pieces, I can deal with that. If I hit a car or ram my bike into a curb hard and the fork and/or frame breaks, I can deal with that.

If i fall off the side at under 30km/h on a flat road without hitting anything, and the forks shear in half, sorry, but i cannot deal with that.

example - you lightly hit another car coming to an intersection, some lights are knocked out and the front bumper is a wacked out of shape with scratches everywhere, you can deal with that. but if the entire front of the car splits open, and the engine is wrecked as a result, would you be able to deal with that?

You drop your bike on the ground or you fail to clip out at an intersection and fall off...and the top tube snaps in half, there's a structural problem with the material itself is there not? you cannot guarantee that each and every single frame/fork is 100% structurally sound, unless each and every bike that comes off the production line is scanned manually with a scanning electron microscope. and i'm pretty sure that doesn't happen at giant, or any other manufacturer for that instance.

If what you're saying is the case, then all manufacturer's have no need to have 'warranty', or write those little booklets with the fine print, because if the bike get's damaged its clearly the customer's fault.

Unless the customer lies and tells the manufacturer/shop that the frame/fork broke/gave way prior to the crash, then there's no chance of getting anything? I dont believe this is right, and judging by the posts from other riders, i think they agree with me.

-Iceman
 
May 22, 2009
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biker jk said:
I actually believe it's the other way around, bicycle parts failing due to manufacturing faults and shops/manufacturers hiding behind the "abuse" defence. That's speaking from experience when my saddle rail cracked and the shop employee accused me of riding roughly over bumps! The manufacturer also denied any manufacturing fault but I got my money back via consumer protection laws.

Exactly. Even with 'warranty' they can just shift the blame onto you everytime and give you nothing.
 
Mar 10, 2009
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iceman2321 said:
Giant makes forks only for Giant bikes, Colnago, BH make their own forks. Just thought I'd clear that up.

-Iceman


The likes of Colnago & co. trust Giant's experience of composites to put their decals on their product. The actual division of Giant related to composites is C-Tech , you can read about it here:
http://www.ctex.com.tw/ENG/About.htm

Any knowledgable or honest storeperson should be able to tell you which factory in Asia is producing the likes of Orbea, Bianchi, Pinarello etc. be it Hodaka , Martec, ADK, Merida etc.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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If you read a Giant bicycle owner's manual it states that your warranty is void if you:

- enter a race with your bike
- train for a race with your bike
- ride the bike off road (yes, even mountain bikes)

Pretty amazing stuff - it isn't just Giant. I remember reading that the warranty is voided by racing or training for a race in the Scott owner's manual last year.

In reality I think Giant and other companies wouldn't enforce it unless they thought someone was taking the p1ss - but it is stated.

However, with regard to the broken forks, I agree with some of the comments above. If you crash the bike then all bets are off and they are well within their rights to not warranty your bike. You cannot know what forces were at work, regardless of the speed of the crash. I would be surprised if any manufacturer would give you any joy in that situation.
 
columbus max said:
If you read a Giant bicycle owner's manual it states that your warranty is void if you:

- enter a race with your bike
- train for a race with your bike
- ride the bike off road (yes, even mountain bikes)

LOL. I would like to see them enforce that in court. They are selling race bikes and have spent a lot of money to convince consumers to buy their product because of how it performs while racing.
 
Jun 13, 2009
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mike25 said:
The owner of the bike shop I took it to could not believe it ethier. He said he has never seen a fork brake.

Damn dude, you better find another shop if he's never seen a fork brake before.
:D

Maybe he just deals in track bikes though.:p
 
May 22, 2009
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Johnny Colnago said:
Damn dude, you better find another shop if he's never seen a fork brake before.
:D

Maybe he just deals in track bikes though.:p

You have to admit though, it's a pretty rare occurrence when a fork snaps/shears in half no matter in what circumstances really. Thank god it doesn't happen everyday, because that would be a real worry.

-Iceman
 
Apr 16, 2009
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Well thats what he told me. But cannondale stepped up to the plate and is giving me a new bike and helmet which should be here sometime this week
 
May 22, 2009
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mike25 said:
Well thats what he told me. But cannondale stepped up to the plate and is giving me a new bike and helmet which should be here sometime this week

That's nice/decent of them. But i guess warranty's also depend on different manufacturers and if they want to help you out or not. At the end of the day, it just comes down to how much they value the customer and the business that he/she brings.

-Iceman
 
Jun 14, 2009
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iceman2321 said:
Hey guys, just would like some thought and discussion on my dilemma.

I bought a bike last year, a 2008 Giant OCR Alliance Comp from a local bike shop - TBE Belmont, in Perth, Western Australia.

About a month ago, I had a minor spill on the way to uni and came off at just under 30km/h. I hit the ground quite hard and got some road rash and a chipped tooth. Apart from that everything was okay. I then got up to check the bike, and was absolutely amazed that the front fork had completely sheared in half, halfway down the fork blade. The top of the fork is still attached to the headtube and steerer, whilst the bottom half is still connected to the dropouts on the front wheel. I have taken a few pictures and they are shown as below.


DSC00491.jpg



DSC00490.jpg



DSC00486.jpg




I know that warranty does not cover crashes or accidental damage. But what does this mean EXACTLY? This phrase is very vague. Does it mean if i'm rolling down my driveway at 10km/h and fall out because I was unable to clip out my pedals and snap a fork, that this would this void the warranty? Surely there must be some baseline margin in which bicycle manufacturer's must meet, even if the consumer (like myself) crashes his/her bike.

In this case I believe my bike/fork was no where near up to the strength it should have been. Falling off the side at less than 30km/h on a dry day without hitting anything that led to a structural failure of a fork is inexplicable.

I remember in the 07 Tour when Marcus Burghardt (also riding a Giant) hit a dog going downhill, which completely demolished his front wheel and drove his front fork into the ground, which came out fine - no failure, no nothing. Even though his wheel was bent like it was a piece of play-dough.

My question is, how can Giant expect me to believe that this fork was structurally sound when I didn't subject it to forces anywhere near racers/other riders would have subjected it to. I have only been riding for about a year, and i'm relatively light (65kg), and I don't put alot of force on the bike itself. The rest of the bike itself is fine - apart from a few scratches on the STI levers and bit of handlebar tape that's come off, its fine. I mean not a SINGLE spoke has been taken out of their housings at the rim or at the hub. The front wheel is still true and there isn't even a flat spot on the front tyre. Clearly there is a disproportionate amount of damage for the amount of force during the crash itself, which leads me to believe that the fork was structurally unsound in some way.

When I took the bike in straight after the crash, the mechanics at the shop were amazed at what had happened and one of the older guys there (I think the manager) said something along the lines of "In my 10 years working here, I have never seen or even heard of a fork failure like the one on yours". Afterwards I spoke to the head of service for the store and he said that he deals with hundreds of services a year, for racers and recreational riders alike, and that he'd never seen anything like it as well. So my question is, how can a recreational rider like myself rip a fork in half just by falling off, when these mechanics who have been dealing with bikes for 10 years + for racers never come across anything like it? After about a month of waiting, I contacted the shop again, and they said Giant would not be replacing my fork under warranty as it's my fault I crashed it, and that's the end of it. They didn't want anything about my story and the circumstances in which the crash occurred. They then said Giant would like to help me out by offering a replacement bike at a 'heavily discounted price' - and when i heard this, in my mind i LOLed. I mean COME ON, do you seriously expect me to fork (no pun intended) out another 2 grand for a bike which I don't trust, and more importantly on a bike built by a manufacturer I don't trust? What's going to happen if I do get a replacement Giant? I ride into a deep pothole and the front fork gives way on me?

Any thoughts/comments welcome, if you've been in a similar situation, please share your situation/comments and what occurred when you dealt with the manufacturer.

-Iceman[/QUOTE

Warranty is against manufacturing fault or defect, you stacking your bike does not even come close and what is worse it sounds like you genuinely believe it is the manufactures fault.

Go into any new car dealer and purchase a new car then within a few days slam it into a pole and smash the front in then take it back to the dealer and tell them the lights are faulty because they broke when you stupidly hit the pole, and prepare yourself for the inevitable........being told to ?*#$ off!

and rightly so !

You and any other cyclist who thinks this border line slanderous course of action is normal needs to wake up and take responsibility for there own actions, stop pointing the finger at others when you and only you are at fault.
 
Nice analogy Timbers. So very wrong however. Perhaps what is going on here is more like driving into a poll and the airbags failing to deploy. Is it the drivers fault that they did not deploy? The crash is the fault of the driver but the airbags the car maker. It is possible that there is some poor design here or poor workmanship. Ever heard of a recall? Can you be certain that there is not? Perhaps next time you post you can be a bit more polite and thoughtful. You can disagree but you don't have to be an a s s while doing it.
 
May 22, 2009
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Timbers said:
Warranty is against manufacturing fault or defect, you stacking your bike does not even come close and what is worse it sounds like you genuinely believe it is the manufactures fault.

Go into any new car dealer and purchase a new car then within a few days slam it into a pole and smash the front in then take it back to the dealer and tell them the lights are faulty because they broke when you stupidly hit the pole, and prepare yourself for the inevitable........being told to ?*#$ off!

and rightly so !

You and any other cyclist who thinks this border line slanderous course of action is normal needs to wake up and take responsibility for there own actions, stop pointing the finger at others when you and only you are at fault.


As i've said to the other people who have disagreed with me, i understand your point but I don't agree with it. However you are entitled to your opinion but there's no way I agree with it or even acknowledge it. Perhaps your car dealer might tell you to p--s off if you smash your car and take it back demanding them to fix it, fair enough too. They owe you nothing.

Does this apply to this/other similar situations? No.

I think you are missing the point. If what you are saying is true, then any single manufacturer of any product that consumers use whether that be a bike, car, fridge, computer or whatever can just build their product as cheaply as possible and then when/if it happens to break just blame it on the consumer. No this is not right.

Poor design and worksmanship have to be acknowledged in cases where damage is beyond what you would expect.

You crash you car into a pole, your front end is probably going to be torn in half, you expect that. There is a big difference here, which is why your analogy is not relevant to this/other similar cases.

Timbers said:
You and any other cyclist who thinks this border line slanderous course of action is normal needs to wake up and take responsibility for there own actions, stop pointing the finger at others when you and only you are at fault.

If anything I think it is you who is pointing the finger. The point I outlined and explained to the people i dealt with were facts, not opinions, which is what you're offering. And please don't talk to me about slander, because it seems like you have hardly grasped the concept of it yourself.

Unlike Black Dog (thanks, you've definitely earnt some respect in my books), I don't mind if you're rude to me, that's your right, you can do whatever you like, but don't expect me to be pleasant in return either.

-Iceman
 
Jun 16, 2009
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I had to register just to post this.

Last year I drove both my wifes (Giant) and my (Trek) bikes into the garage while they were on the roof of the car. The Giant which was mostly aluminum was bent just enough to be a total loss for both frame and fork. The Trek was totally destroyed (steered bent 45 degrees and head tube ovalized) and was also totalled. Both companies did pretty well with their reaction.

Given what happened we had the following experiences.
1. The Giant dealer was able to get Giant to crash warranty the frame (at a fairly reasonable cost) and then re hang the parts (they did actually build the bike in the wrong size the first time and had to do over).

2. Trek actually issued a credit for the damage to the bike (not very much) that was a discount against a new bike purchase, plus they stripped the destroyed bike for free. I was not the original owner of the trek.

I have never met you in person but I can tell you as someone who doesn't have a dog in the hunt, that when you say things like, "I crashed", "I had some bad road rash" and "I chipped a tooth" it makes me wonder about what really happened.

In terms of warranty items.
1. Trek Madones (which is what I ended up on) with the integrated bottom sometimes have issues with the integrated bearings. In this case, they replace the frame.

2. If I crash the madone, they will give me a deal on a replacement frame and fork, I understand that this includes low speed as well as high speed crashes.

3. I would guess that they would accept it if I said that I was riding on route X and all of a sudden my fork sheared in half and a I fell off, but they would most likely insist that I show them exactly where it happened. In this case I would be working on minimizing my costs.

When you ask Giant for a crash replacment program what do they tell you?
 
May 22, 2009
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yeltnerb said:
I have never met you in person but I can tell you as someone who doesn't have a dog in the hunt, that when you say things like, "I crashed", "I had some bad road rash" and "I chipped a tooth" it makes me wonder about what really happened.

As I mentioned, I went to adjust the straps on my backpack as they seemed unusually loose, and took both hands off the bars to do this, somehow the bike slide about 30 degrees to the left and went away from underneath me. I went off the side and landed face first into the ground (hence the chipped teeth and cuts to the face) and cut up my jersey.

yeltnerb said:
When you ask Giant for a crash replacment program what do they tell you?

After about a month of waiting, I contacted the shop again, and they said Giant would not be replacing my fork under warranty as it's my fault I crashed it, and that's the end of it. They didn't want anything about my story and the circumstances in which the crash occurred. They then said Giant would like to help me out by offering a replacement bike at a 'heavily discounted price' - and when i heard this, in my mind i LOLed. I mean COME ON, do you seriously expect me to fork (no pun intended) out another 2 grand for a bike which I don't trust, and more importantly on a bike built by a manufacturer I don't trust? What's going to happen if I do get a replacement Giant? I ride into a deep pothole and the front fork gives way on me?

(That's a direct quote from my first post in this thread.)

Since then, I contacted Giant Australia directly and they offered to deal with my situation. They said I could buy another frame (a new frameset for about $600, which i was a bit iffy about). Alternatively they asked me to get the frame checked out for structural damage, professionally (at a cost of around $200) and if it was deemed okay, they would replace my fork free of charge. This is what I am doing now and I am waiting for the report from the inspection to get back to me.

Okay - fair enough, I crashed and I take the responsibility for that. I asked the guy at the head office why Giant would not cover the costs of the inspection themselves and he just fell back and said it was my fault for the crash and that if I don't want to go ahead with it, then that's my perogative. Fair enough. I crashed, I'll take the responsibility that goes along with it and if I have to pay some money to get my bike inspected for structural damage to the frame, then I'll do it.

This experience was slightly better. But the State Rep's response coupled with the total inadequacy from the store's 'service manager' was a joke. But hey, s--t happens, I'll deal with it.

-Iceman
 
Glad to hear that Giant is willing to help you out a little bit. I hope that the $200 fee will go towards a new frame if they find damage. If not the fee will cover their cost for the fork. I doubt that they have some bloke making $50/hour spending 4 hours on your frame with an X-ray and industrial ultrasound machine.

By the way, Mavic should be thanking giant for making collapsible forks that spare their wheels from any damage during a crash!
 

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