Giro 2012: Route Rumours / Our wishes

[airstream]

Guys, you reason a little as though the organizers might know how the race will go. For example, '09 edition didnt contain of any exclusively Giro climb but it had a great intrigue till the last stage. Thats why I cant criticize Mont Ventoux09, Sistriere or even Plateau de Beille, because the circumstances can kill action on the stage of any difficulty. I don't expect fireworks from Stelvio stage. Scarponi isnot able to go solo, Nibali never attacks at all. Basso and Rujano will try to do something, may be. I dont believe anyone ventures to fire on Mortirolo.

 

[The Hitch]

The hardness of next year's Giro is going to have a clear consequence: the turn-out is going to be poor. Every single TdF contender will not take part in the Italian race. It was thought for years that a Giro-Tour double was very hard, but seeing The Great One fail at it was the last nail on the coffin, and nobody is going to risk their TdF by racing the Giro.

There werent too many TDF contenders at the Giro last year and it was maybe the best lineup theyve ever had.

They will still get a very good lineup from Italians, Pro continental riders and top riders who arent aiming for the Tour this particular year. Lots of top riders want to try the Giro.

Gilbert said wearing the Maglia Rosa is something he really wants to do.

Samu says hes going to focus on the Giro one year because he cant retire without giving it a shot. I think every major gt contender around has focused on the Giro at least once in their career. Frank hasnt. Who else?

 

[Eshnar]

Crostis itt

Actually I was thinking of kronplatz

 

[The Hitch]

Actually I was thinking of kronplatz

Pfff. Only Kronplatz

 

[ferryman]

There werent too many TDF contenders at the Giro last year and it was maybe the best lineup theyve ever had.

They will still get a very good lineup from Italians, Pro continental riders and top riders who arent aiming for the Tour this particular year. Lots of top riders want to try the Giro.

Gilbert said wearing the Maglia Rosa is something he really wants to do.

Samu says hes going to focus on the Giro one year because he cant retire without giving it a shot. I think every major gt contender around has focused on the Giro at least once in their career. Frank hasnt. Who else?

Alejandro Valverde?

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Who else?

Bradley Wiggins.

 

[Zoncolan]

Bradley Wiggins.

Short memory?

 

[Descender]

That's right, cos Nibali, Scarponi, Rodríguez, Gadret, Arroyo, Rujano and Antón based their season around the Tour, of course.

There are plenty of people who could still go for the Giro. Many teams for the Giro will be more interesting than their Tour versions, because of youngsters being given a go, or the type of climber who could never truly compete for the Tour GC (Gadret and Antón spring to mind).

Honestly, the Giro has always been hard. In fact, the worst field in recent years was 2004, and then the parcours was the softest we've seen in years.

That's right, the turn-out would have been poor this year if it hadn't been for Contador. Other than him the only rider with even a podium place in a GT was Nibali...

You seem to assume I think this year's line-up was good, which I don't. Gadret? Arroyo? Rujano? Antón? Please... what have these people done?

And notice I didn't make any judgement about the fun factor or how interesting the Giro is or might be, I'm talking merely about turn-out.

And no, the Giro has not always been this hard and you know that.

 

[Descender]

There werent too many TDF contenders at the Giro last year and it was maybe the best lineup theyve ever had.

They will still get a very good lineup from Italians, Pro continental riders and top riders who arent aiming for the Tour this particular year. Lots of top riders want to try the Giro.

Gilbert said wearing the Maglia Rosa is something he really wants to do.

Samu says hes going to focus on the Giro one year because he cant retire without giving it a shot. I think every major gt contender around has focused on the Giro at least once in their career. Frank hasnt. Who else?

I'm talking about next year.

And this year the line-up was good because of Contador, and we know what special circumstances drove him to ride the Giro.

In terms of participants, the Giro is no different to the Vuelta.

 

[LukeSchmid]

That's right, the turn-out would have been poor last year if it hadn't been for Contador. Other than him the only rider with even a podium place in a GT was Nibali...

Contador did not race last year, he raced this year.

 

[Descender]

Contador did not race last year, he raced this year.

Of course... the season is already over in my mind.

 

[The Hitch]

Other than him the only rider with even a podium place in a GT was Nibali...

Menchov Sastre Garzelli Di Luca Arroyo Rujano.


Edit, oh yea and Popo

 

[Descender]

Menchov Sastre Garzelli Di Luca Arroyo Rujano.

Sastre, Garzelli and Di Luca are dinosaurs who had no call in GC. Menchov was not a player (and it remains to be seen if he's past it too...). Arroyo's podium is a travesty, I think we all agree on that. I did forget about Rujano's 3rd spot in his magic year.

 

[mb2612]

Menchov Sastre Garzelli Di Luca Arroyo Rujano.

So only 12 GT's won by people in the field.

That's actually more than the tour.

 

[The Hitch]

Sastre, Garzelli and Di Luca are dinosaurs who had no call in GC. Menchov was not a player (and it remains to be seen if he's past it too...). Arroyo's podium is a travesty, I think we all agree on that. I did forget about Rujano's 3rd spot in his magic year.

So?? You said only Nibali had a gt podium.

You never said they had to meet your standards.

If Arroyos doenst count because you dont approve then lets put Scarponi in instead seeing as he came 4th (would have been 3rd if not for losing 3 minutes in a ttt).

If Menchov doesnt count because he underperformed then Contador shouldnt count for the Tour.

So if we take these standards to the Tour you have NO gt winners and only Evans Samu and Andy Schleck who had a podium.

Cunego doesnt count like Menchov Arroyo Di Luca, because hes past the form that actually won him a gt, same with Basso who fits somewhere between the past it and underperformed. Peter Velits is a joke like Arroyo, in which case Rodriguez who did the Giro moves up to 3rd (extra point for the Giro)

Levi and Vinosaurus are Dinosaurs like Garzelli. So is Kloeden.

And half these riders didnt even finish the Tour.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Sastre, Garzelli and Di Luca are dinosaurs who had no call in GC. Menchov was not a player (and it remains to be seen if he's past it too...). Arroyo's podium is a travesty, I think we all agree on that. I did forget about Rujano's 3rd spot in his magic year.

Popovych was 3rd back in '03 too.

Arroyo's podium is a travesty? Yes, he was given a gift, but would you rather the L'Aquila break not have gone and then missed out on the entire second half of that amazing race?

Menchov was decidedly not "past it" in the Vuelta. He just did his usual job of losing time unnecessarily stupidly in the first week. In all the key mountain stages he looked comfortable and happy up there, especially as the race went on. If he'd not made a hash of week 1 we'd probably be talking about him as the winner, not Cobo.

The following riders at the 2011 Giro had a GT top 10 to their name prior to the race:

Alberto Contador
Michele Scarponi (4th, 2010 Giro)
Vincenzo Nibali (7th, 2009 Tour, 3rd, 2010 Giro, 1st, 2010 Vuelta)
Joaquím Rodríguez (6th, 2008 Vuelta, 7th, 2009 Vuelta, 8th, 2010 Tour, 4th, 2010 Vuelta)
Roman Kreuziger (9th, 2009 Tour, 9th, 2010 Tour)
José Rujano (3rd, 2005 Giro)
Denis Menchov (1st, 2005 Vuelta, 5th, 2006 Tour, 1st, 2007 Vuelta, 5th, 2008 Giro, 4th, 2008 Tour, 1st, 2009 Giro, 3rd, 2010 Tour)
David Arroyo (10th, 2007 Giro, 10th, 2009 Giro, 2nd, 2010 Giro)
Christophe le Mevel (10th, 2009 Tour)
Igor Antón (8th, 2007 Vuelta)
Paolo Tiralongo (8th, 2009 Vuelta)
Stefano Garzelli (1st, 2000 Giro, 2nd, 2003 Giro, 6th, 2004 Giro, 7th, 2009 Giro)
Carlos Sastre (he has 15 GT top 10s. I won't list them all.)
Emanuele Sella (10th, 2005 Giro, 6th, 2008 Giro)
Robert Kiserlovski (10th, 2010 Giro)
Philip Deignan (9th, 2009 Vuelta)
Yaroslav Popovych (3rd, 2003 Giro, 5th, 2004 Giro, 8th, 2007 Tour)
Danilo di Luca (4th 2005 Giro, 1st, 2007 Giro, 8th, 2008 Giro, DQ from 2nd, 2009 Giro)
Dario Cioni (4th, 2004 Giro)
Richie Porte (7th, 2010 Giro)
Mauricio Ardila (8th, 2005 Vuelta)
Domenico Pozzovivo (9th, 2008 Giro)
Marco Pinotti (9th, 2010 Giro)

 

[LukeSchmid]

Libertine, great list, but your mention of Popvych's third made me laugh.

 

[cineteq]

Passo dello Stelvio, Italy

 

[The Hitch]

Consider that every one of those zigs is about 1km.

 

[craig1985]

Consider that every one of those zigs is about 1km.

It's probably due to the angle of the photo, but some of them look less than a km, and some more.

 

[The Hitch]

Also funny how Stelvio is kind of like Plateau de Beille on top of Aprica, but is considered not so steep.

Sometimes I forget that just because a Giro climb isnt as steep as Muur de Huy and at least 8 times as long it doesnt make it easy.

I think the last 17km of Stelvio will be steeper than anything they will have in the Tour so we might want to reconsider the idea that its grades are too easy and people wont attack.

Its not as steep as the other hors hors hors catergory climb in this stage but its crazy steep anyway and twice as long.

I dont think well see heads of state roll in together like on Sestrieres. Stelvio will finish any job that Mortirolo fails to complete.

 

[The Hitch]

It's probably due to the angle of the photo, but some of them look less than a km, and some more.

My point is that if you count all the zigs (ignoring the 2 or 3 little ones between hairpins 6 and 11, that can kind of be seen as part of another zig) then you get around 24, 25 hairpins and the climb is 25 km long so on average 1km each.

Obviously some are a bit longer and some are a bit shorter.

 

[LukeSchmid]

Cineteq, brilliant photo, thank you for posting it.

 

[craig1985]

Seeing the Stelvio wants me to go watch the '05 Giro highlights again, where Simoni went on the offensive and put Savoldelli under pressure, and Iván Parra got his 2nd stage win as many days at the finish in Livigno. Savoldelli descended like a nutcase that day.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Seeing the Stelvio wants me to go watch the '05 Giro highlights again, where Simoni went on the offensive and put Savoldelli under pressure, and Iván Parra got his 2nd stage win as many days at the finish in Livigno. Savoldelli descended like a nutcase that day.

Hence, the link on my sig.