Giro 2012: Route Rumours / Our wishes

[Descender]

So?? You said only Nibali had a gt podium.

You never said they had to meet your standards.

If Arroyos doenst count because you dont approve then lets put Scarponi in instead seeing as he came 4th (would have been 3rd if not for losing 3 minutes in a ttt).

If Menchov doesnt count because he underperformed then Contador shouldnt count for the Tour.

So if we take these standards to the Tour you have NO gt winners and only Evans Samu and Andy Schleck who had a podium.

Cunego doesnt count like Menchov Arroyo Di Luca, because hes past the form that actually won him a gt, same with Basso who fits somewhere between the past it and underperformed. Peter Velits is a joke like Arroyo, in which case Rodriguez who did the Giro moves up to 3rd (extra point for the Giro)

Levi and Vinosaurus are Dinosaurs like Garzelli. So is Kloeden.

And half these riders didnt even finish the Tour.

i think my standards are pretty straight-forward and self-explanatory... but fine:

We can put Scarponi in, he is certainly one of the few legit top GT contenders in that race.

I'd say Menchov's performance in the Giro is not quite comparable to Contador's performance in the Tour.

Velits might be a fluke, but his podium place didn't come from a monster break. Not comparable.

Cunego and Basso might be past it, but the latter won a GT just last year, and the former was off a brilliant Suisse.

LOL at Vinosaurus.

 

[Descender]

Popovych was 3rd back in '03 too.

Arroyo's podium is a travesty? Yes, he was given a gift, but would you rather the L'Aquila break not have gone and then missed out on the entire second half of that amazing race?

Menchov was decidedly not "past it" in the Vuelta. He just did his usual job of losing time unnecessarily stupidly in the first week. In all the key mountain stages he looked comfortable and happy up there, especially as the race went on. If he'd not made a hash of week 1 we'd probably be talking about him as the winner, not Cobo.

The following riders at the 2011 Giro had a GT top 10 to their name prior to the race:

Alberto Contador
Michele Scarponi (4th, 2010 Giro)
Vincenzo Nibali (7th, 2009 Tour, 3rd, 2010 Giro, 1st, 2010 Vuelta)
Joaquím Rodríguez (6th, 2008 Vuelta, 7th, 2009 Vuelta, 8th, 2010 Tour, 4th, 2010 Vuelta)
Roman Kreuziger (9th, 2009 Tour, 9th, 2010 Tour)
José Rujano (3rd, 2005 Giro)
Denis Menchov (1st, 2005 Vuelta, 5th, 2006 Tour, 1st, 2007 Vuelta, 5th, 2008 Giro, 4th, 2008 Tour, 1st, 2009 Giro, 3rd, 2010 Tour)
David Arroyo (10th, 2007 Giro, 10th, 2009 Giro, 2nd, 2010 Giro)
Christophe le Mevel (10th, 2009 Tour)
Igor Antón (8th, 2007 Vuelta)
Paolo Tiralongo (8th, 2009 Vuelta)
Stefano Garzelli (1st, 2000 Giro, 2nd, 2003 Giro, 6th, 2004 Giro, 7th, 2009 Giro)
Carlos Sastre (he has 15 GT top 10s. I won't list them all.)
Emanuele Sella (10th, 2005 Giro, 6th, 2008 Giro)
Robert Kiserlovski (10th, 2010 Giro)
Philip Deignan (9th, 2009 Vuelta)
Yaroslav Popovych (3rd, 2003 Giro, 5th, 2004 Giro, 8th, 2007 Tour)
Danilo di Luca (4th 2005 Giro, 1st, 2007 Giro, 8th, 2008 Giro, DQ from 2nd, 2009 Giro)
Dario Cioni (4th, 2004 Giro)
Richie Porte (7th, 2010 Giro)
Mauricio Ardila (8th, 2005 Vuelta)
Domenico Pozzovivo (9th, 2008 Giro)
Marco Pinotti (9th, 2010 Giro)

Hey, I'm Spanish and a descending nut, you think I didn't enjoy Arroyo's fairy tale?

Menchov might be past it or just having a lazy year as I said.

Nice list there, but full of non-factors, obscure riders or lucky cases.

 

[Marmot]

My point is that if you count all the zigs (ignoring the 2 or 3 little ones between hairpins 6 and 11, that can kind of be seen as part of another zig) then you get around 24, 25 hairpins and the climb is 25 km long so on average 1km each.

Obviously some are a bit longer and some are a bit shorter.

From memory, the little building you can see nestled in the valley (right on one of the hairpins about half way up the photo) is around 7k from the top. I think the picture captures the last 10k, maybe a little more. I recall nearly 50 officially numbered hairpins on that Prato side, and around 40 on the Bormio side, but I can't remember exactly.

 

[jens_attacks]

the giro startlist will be again as good as le tour's

nibali,basso(they will help each other,it's not clear who will be the leader,i'd say basso),purito,scarponi,sammy sanchez,cobo(because he also wants to defend his vuelta),vino(he said he won't do le tour although i doubt),uran and henao(i don't dare to dream about froome),cunego,sella,rujano,di luca,valverde(???),chris horner maybe,gadret,anton
i'm sure menchov won't be in giro because his only obsession is now le tour.

anyway giro will have a nice startlist

 

[Dancing On The Pedals]

Hey, I'm Spanish and a descending nut, you think I didn't enjoy Arroyo's fairy tale?

Menchov might be past it or just having a lazy year as I said.

Nice list there, but full of non-factors, obscure riders or lucky cases.

They may have owed their podium position to a large slice of luck but they were still good enough to finish off the job and finish on the podium/top 10 after 3 weeks of racing. I don't think anyone would have picked this year's Vuelta podium before the start of the race, but just because Cobo, Froome and Wiggins beat the more fancied GC riders like Nibali, Rodriguez, Scarponi etc doesn't mean we should discount their finishing position. In a roundabout way therefore, what I'm saying is even if next year's Giro doesn't have the likes of Contador, Schleck or Evans, there will still be a good field and the racing will still be exciting to watch.

 

[craig1985]

I'm sort of hoping that Cav goes to Sky and does Giro and if Henao does the Giro as well, Cav makes him do lead out, I just want to be on here laughing when the forum goes into meltdown, namely from Ryo Hazuki.

 

[Descender]

They may have owed their podium position to a large slice of luck but they were still good enough to finish off the job and finish on the podium/top 10 after 3 weeks of racing. I don't think anyone would have picked this year's Vuelta podium before the start of the race, but just because Cobo, Froome and Wiggins beat the more fancied GC riders like Nibali, Rodriguez, Scarponi etc doesn't mean we should discount their finishing position. In a roundabout way therefore, what I'm saying is even if next year's Giro doesn't have the likes of Contador, Schleck or Evans, there will still be a good field and the racing will still be exciting to watch.

I hope you're right. The startlist will be decent at least, as it has been for years now. But again, I fear some big names will think twice before committing themselves to riding the Giro.

 

[Eshnar]

So, provided that stage 17 starts from Falzes... this rules out an ITT in Lombardia on stage 16 (transfer way too big)
So, if there's an ITT, it must be in Alto Adige / Sud Tirol. Imho it's more likely it will be a mixed road stage to Falzes (with Terento near the finish) or surroundings. It could also be a MTT to Plan De Corones (it's there...) but I hope not, tbh.
If stage 16 is not a ITT, I wonder where the ITT is. Imo it can't be in Milan (from the Stelvio to Milan is an enormous tranfer, right after 7/8 hours of racing). To me it's clear stage 21 will be a flat sprinters' stage.

The stages that could be potentially ITT are stage 8,9 or 12. There aren't other possibilities (maybe stage 15 too, but it's less likely to me)

 

[auscyclefan94]

I'm sort of hoping that Cav goes to Sky and does Giro and if Henao does the Giro as well, Cav makes him do lead out, I just want to be on here laughing when the forum goes into meltdown, namely from Ryo Hazuki.

You're so evil, but I am with you 100%!

I hope they finish a road stage on the Plan de Corones like they were planning to in 2008? That would of been cool especially with the final km being sooooo steep.

 

[Eshnar]

You're so evil, but I am with you 100%!

I hope they finish a road stage on the Plan de Corones like they were planning to in 2008? That would of been cool especially with the final km being sooooo steep.

it was 2006, actually
Anyway a road stage to Kronplatz would be pretty awesome indeed. But it's not happening

 

[Race Radio]

Love that climb, and photo.

FYI, they will not be climbing this side next year. They will be doing the Bormeio side

 

[goggalor]

Millar, (well known for his love of hard climbing stages ) tweeted this earlier this morning; "What do the fans think about the penultimate stage of 2012 Giro? Will it make it a better race to watch for you? #girofolly"

Christ, does this guy ever shut up? Stop b****ing, please, or start riding track.

To answer the question, it will be epic, just like this year's queen stage.

 

[Dancing On The Pedals]

You're so evil, but I am with you 100%!

I hope they finish a road stage on the Plan de Corones like they were planning to in 2008? That would of been cool especially with the final km being sooooo steep.

Isn't there some sort of problem with the road surface and lots of cars? So unless that has changed, it will only ever be a TT unfortunately.

 

[The Hitch]

the giro startlist will be again as good as le tour's

nibali,basso(they will help each other,it's not clear who will be the leader,i'd say basso),purito,scarponi,sammy sanchez,cobo(because he also wants to defend his vuelta),vino(he said he won't do le tour although i doubt),uran and henao(i don't dare to dream about froome),cunego,sella,rujano,di luca,valverde(???),chris horner maybe,gadret,anton
i'm sure menchov won't be in giro because his only obsession is now le tour.

anyway giro will have a nice startlist

Valverede? Id be less surprised to see Andrew at the Giro startline than Valverde.

Isn't there some sort of problem with the road surface and lots of cars? So unless that has changed, it will only ever be a TT unfortunately.

I think its that there is no space for a race finish at the top.

You can have 180 riders finish there if they come in 3 minutes after eachother.

Of course if Zomegnan has taught as anything its that if you stick Zoncolan Marmolada, Gardeccia, and maybe Giau into a stage, you can use Plan de Corones as an mtf, because the riders will be coming in more than 3 minutes after eachother

 

[spalco]

Love that climb, and photo.

FYI, they will not be climbing this side next year. They will be doing the Bormeio side

Zomegnan would try to make the peloton go up the path on the left side of the valley.

 

[McLovin]

Consider that every one of those zigs is about 1km.

False. What you see is just from 1900m up, so maybe half of it.
Anyway, Michael Rogers was doing altitude training with Sivstov last year on Stelvio, for Tour, and he posted some pics on his twitter on 20 June I think, and it was full of snow. So don't go too far with expectations for this stage beacuse there is a small chance to be disapointed.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

What do you reckon would be the contingency plan? Mortirolo then Santa Cristina and finish at Aprica? Or just go up to Bormio 2000?

There's a bit too much flat between Grosio and Bormio, otherwise I'd actually argue that the easier climb to Bormio 2000 would give us a better spectacle because it would increase the likelihood of attacks on the Mortirolo. But as it is so far I don't see that happening and the Stelvio will obviously be the big draw here, so that we will likely not see too much action on the Mortirolo (other than the bunch being trimmed of course), therefore the substitution of the Stelvio would be a terrible thing for the spectacle.

 

[Lupetto]

Stelvio in 1965.

 

[jens_attacks]

Stelvio in 1965.

who's the guy behind?it doesn't seem like fuglsang

 

[McLovin]

Stelvio in 1965

things like that are not allowed anymore. see iseran/galibier in 96 and a stage in 2006 giro,can't remember the climb.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I know they definitely cut the intended Plan de Corones finish in '06, finishing on the Passo Furcia instead.

 

[McLovin]

yeah. and it almost happend to galibier this year. two days before the stage, from lautaret to galibier there were 10cm of snow.

 

[profff]

i climbed the stelvio with my bike and , believe me, it is a very hard and demanding climb.
it is a climb with no rest and you can never breathe, because of the altitude and because of the fact that the gradient is all the time 7-8% and that is steeper than most of the tour stages.
the stelvio is a real monster and it means a very very long effort. that is a complete different thing from a steep climb that requires twenty minutes au bloc, stelvio is much more than 1 hour.
and i repeat, it is a serious, continuous climb with no rest section, always 7% at least.

and please do not forget the altitude. more than 2500 m is a complete different thing than even an hard climb like grand colombier which is 2000 at the top.
climbing stelvio , a pro rider must work hard about 30 minutes at an altitude more than 2000.

do not underevaluate stelvio, especially after mortirolo
on mortirolo the selection happens just naturally, because it is too hard nad very few racer will approach the stelvio at the " tete de la course"

 

[craig1985]

who's the guy behind?it doesn't seem like fuglsang

I'm impressed that Fuglsang can go back in time and do a race 20 years before he was born!

 

[Eshnar]

Isn't there some sort of problem with the road surface and lots of cars? So unless that has changed, it will only ever be a TT unfortunately.

no cars allowed, but this happens on the Zoncolan too.
They planned a MTF there in 2006, so definitely there's no (unsolvable) problem