Giro 2012: Route Rumours / Our wishes

[R.0.t.O]

No matter where you look in Italy you always see some crazy steep climb, or there are thousands of them that they can use.

This was the big surprise I got when we toured around Italy a few years ago, there are just mountains and hills almost everywhere you go. This is both the great strength and great weakness of the Giro - you don't get the natural formula that the TdF has largely defined for it by the geography. In France it's very clear that there are two high mountain ranges with lumpy transition section between them, and most of the rest fairly flat, and each high mountain range has its own medium-mountains as an introduction - Massif Central to Pyrenees (if you go anti-clockwise) or Vosges to Alps (clockwise). There's a natural formula, which you can either view as stale or as a solid background. Italy is much more of a free choice - you can spend 8 days traversing the whole of the northern mountain range like this year if you want, and you can throw in big mountain-top finishes at pretty much any point in the whole 3 weeks.

 

[Abdel Halim]

As a new member, I will start my contribution to this forum by some wishes to the next Giro.

First, I think they would have better finish in France for Giro than l'Alpe, which is kinda overused by le Tour. For exemple, a "tappone" with Sampeyre, Agnello, Izoard and finish line on top of Granon would fit better, with that last terrible climb illogicly forgotten since the 80's.

Beside, I would like to see again San Pellegrino in Alpe with a finish at Il Ciocco, a classic stage in the 80's Giros.

 

[valentius borealis]

Another possible way to get to Alpe d'Huez would be to start in Aosta, with the stage going over the Colle San Carlo, Col de Petit San Bernard, Col de la Madeleine and the Col du Glandon before the finish on the Alpe.

 

[profff]

it is time the giro brings back in the spotlight the north western alps, in piemonte and especilly in the cuneo district: fauniera,esischie, sampeyre, agnello, lombarda.
these are the hardest climb that can be enchained in various way.
they are longer and steeper than the dolomites climbs, the roads are rougher and they are high ( fauniera over 2500m, agnello 2650).
the only climbs in the dolomites that can compair to these are fedaia and giau, may be passo delle erbe.

i hope that they go back there with good enchaiment of cols, may be in the french alps...is very easy to enchain lombarda with bonette and maddalena /larches; agnello with izoard monginevro and a finish in sestriere and so on.
there is no other country where you can find sequence of difficult, long demanding cols in europe as in the norh western part of italy.

 

[Ferminal]

Another possible way to get to Alpe d'Huez would be to start in Aosta, with the stage going over the Colle San Carlo, Col de Petit San Bernard, Col de la Madeleine and the Col du Glandon before the finish on the Alpe.

Ouch

 

[roundabout]

And (unless I am missing something) such a stage will be over 240km long.

 

[Bavarianrider]

It's certainly time for Focusing a bit more in the Alps again. Dolomitis have been really dominating the last decade.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

it is time the giro brings back in the spotlight the north western alps, in piemonte and especilly in the cuneo district: fauniera,esischie, sampeyre, agnello, lombarda.
these are the hardest climb that can be enchained in various way.
they are longer and steeper than the dolomites climbs, the roads are rougher and they are high ( fauniera over 2500m, agnello 2650).
the only climbs in the dolomites that can compair to these are fedaia and giau, may be passo delle erbe.

i hope that they go back there with good enchaiment of cols, may be in the french alps...is very easy to enchain lombarda with bonette and maddalena /larches; agnello with izoard monginevro and a finish in sestriere and so on.
there is no other country where you can find sequence of difficult, long demanding cols in europe as in the norh western part of italy.

There's more to the Eastern Alps than the Dolomites, though.

There's the Mortirolo (1850m), Gavia (2620m), Stelvio (2760m) and Schafseck (2270m) sequence.

Or the Pennes (2210m), Monte Giovo (2095m) followed by the Passo del Rombo (2490m) and Tiefenbachferner (2830m, almost 10% on average) one-two punch.

 

[valentius borealis]

And (unless I am missing something) such a stage will be over 240km long.

somewhere around 240km

 

[profff]

There's more to the Eastern Alps than the Dolomites, though.

There's the Mortirolo (1850m), Gavia (2620m), Stelvio (2760m) and Schafseck (2270m) sequence.

Or the Pennes (2210m), Monte Giovo (2095m) followed by the Passo del Rombo (2490m) and Tiefenbachferner (2830m, almost 10% on average) one-two punch.

the hardest pennes side is from vipiteno, so it cannot be followed by the one two giovo-rombo and road to the glacier from solden.
i have done the one two giovo rombo and it is hard .
but solden is in austria, so it is not italy.

anyway, agnello and fauniera are harder than the rombo, at least for my legs , ....giovo is a very nice climb, first place where pantani attacked and showed himself in the giro, but it si not comparable to the climbs i mentioned about the western alps.

anyway, you are right, the eastern alps are beautiful places for cycling.
but mortirolo has peen proposed a lot of time recently, and i would like better to see the stelvio well placed in a stage and not faraway to the finish.
gavia has been done recently quite often and the downhill from there is very scary, worse than crostis maybe.

so , climbs must be done quite often to become mythical, it is true, but there is also a need for alternating and that it is definitely possible in italy.

another factor to consider about giro route is that yesterday it snowed in sestriere ( 2090 m) about 20 cm and the finestre stage could have become another gavia hampsten mode stage just a week later!!

 

[valentius borealis]

And (unless I am missing something) such a stage will be over 240km long.

At around 240km with the climbs involved, it'd possibly be even too hard for the Giro, although having a stage to Courchevel via Colle San Carlo and Col de Petit St Bernard, with a Madeleine/Glandon/Alpe d'Huez stage the next day would be a good alternative.

 

[craig1985]

Give them 240km and the next day is a rest day, or somehow make a flat stage to rest their legs.

 

[Eshnar]

Speaking of Strade Bianche, I'd love to see this:

The two climbs in the middle are different sides of the Monte Amiata. The Strade Bianche begin at about km 165. The finish is the same of 2010 at Montalcino.

 

[valentius borealis]

Give them 240km and the next day is a rest day, or somehow make a flat stage to rest their legs.

With the climbing involved, the next day wouldn't be anything other than a rest day.

 

[guncha]

More balanced course is necessary. Last two editions certainly lacks ITT kms. Possibly they could put long flat ITT in the end of the first week or in early second week to give strong ITT guys some advantage and put pressure on climbers. They shouldn't put ITT on the last day as well especially when it is the only flat ITT of Giro.

This year too many difficult MTFs and mountain stages (9, 13, 14, 15) were during first two weeks. Also transitional stages sometimes were too hard during first two weeks and there was almost nothing for sprinters. I am not fan of sprints but sprints are part of the sport and some 3 or 4 "easy" stages for sprinters are necessary in the first week.

In last 5 years the best route of Giro was in 2008 when big mountains came rather late and the course was balanced.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

the hardest pennes side is from vipiteno, so it cannot be followed by the one two giovo-rombo and road to the glacier from solden.
i have done the one two giovo rombo and it is hard .
but solden is in austria, so it is not italy.

anyway, agnello and fauniera are harder than the rombo, at least for my legs , ....giovo is a very nice climb, first place where pantani attacked and showed himself in the giro, but it si not comparable to the climbs i mentioned about the western alps.

anyway, you are right, the eastern alps are beautiful places for cycling.
but mortirolo has peen proposed a lot of time recently, and i would like better to see the stelvio well placed in a stage and not faraway to the finish.
gavia has been done recently quite often and the downhill from there is very scary, worse than crostis maybe.

so , climbs must be done quite often to become mythical, it is true, but there is also a need for alternating and that it is definitely possible in italy.

another factor to consider about giro route is that yesterday it snowed in sestriere ( 2090 m) about 20 cm and the finestre stage could have become another gavia hampsten mode stage just a week later!!

All true. It's not always possible to do the hardest side of every climb, though. The Sampeyre, Agnello etc. are great in that sense.

 

[Captain_Cavman]

What I'd lik to see is...

1. Short meaningless Prologue to kick things off

2. 1 pan flat stage, and a number of stages of varying difficulty that place significant doubt as to whether they can be brought back for the sprint. These to be dispersed evenly throughout the race.

3. 50-70Km TTT. The advantage with TTTs is that they force teams to prefer all round riders to assist their specialists, rather than yet another 2nd rate mountain helper.

4. One flat 50Km TT and one not flat (30-40km), but not stupidly mountainous either.

5. At least one Strada Bianchi type stage. Maybe more; cobbles?.

6. No MTFs. E.g. Stelvio, Mortirolo, Gavia and then down to the valley floor. Descending is just as much a part of cycling as climbing and should be treated as such. This is not the same as saying there should be a 40Km flat on the end of each Mountain stage like Col D'Aubisque to Pau.

 

[Aguirre]

La Fauniera needs to be back (also Sempeyre and Eischie)

also a finish at Three Cima

also a mountain TT would be good, but not short but rather an insane Pinerolo-Sestriere or one hour and a half work

Also lots of finishing downhill for Nibali

 

[Pilgaard]

Speaking of Strade Bianche, I'd love to see this:

The two climbs in the middle are different sides of the Monte Amiata. The Strade Bianche begin at about km 165. The finish is the same of 2010 at Montalcino.

Very interesting stage profiles. Which site do you use to make these images ?

 

[Eshnar]

Very interesting stage profiles. Which site do you use to make these images ?

openrunner

 

[Pilgaard]

openrunner

Thanks for the info - and the quick reply

 

[Eshnar]

Thanks for the info - and the quick reply

It was pure luck, I logged in few seconds after your post

 

[Eshnar]

Another good option about Alpe would be this stage

Moncenisio, Telegraphe/Galibier, Alpe. Starting from Turin it's 229 kms long.

 

[Lupetto]

http://www.ilciclismo.it has released the first four stages of "Giro Nostrum", their version of the 2012 Giro d'Italia.

1a tappa, Herning (cronometro individuale), 9 km
2a tappa, Herning - Herning, 195 km
3a tappa, Horsens - Horsens, 193 km

4a tappa, Vicenza (cronosquadre), 17 km

More to come.

 

[valentius borealis]

I'd be hesitant to use the Galibier because of the issues with snow similar to what you get on the Gavia and the Stelvio.