Giro 2012: Route Rumours / Our wishes

[Gloin22]

i've read it yesterday,it will be a hard race and i hope there will be two ITTs,we need that,one of 50 km,other one 30-40 km and please no useless stage to milano,let the decisive ITT

That would please Wiggo, he is rather certain to ride Giro-Olympics schedule.

 

[Lupetto]

On RAI tonite it was reported that after 3 days in Danmark, they would move to Verona for a nite TTT.

Then there would be also the Stelvio, by trying to do the highest finish/passage (?) in EU at 2900metres.

Stelvio is 2763m. From there you can only go higher on unpaved roads and these roads are insanely steep. The road to Ortlerhaus has 20 to 30%.

 

[Eshnar]

Then there would be also the Stelvio, by trying to do the highest finish/passage (?) in EU at 2900metres.

Are they going to climb the mountain itself?
Seriously, no way they'll go up there. Even if the road was good, there's too much snow in may.

 

[The Hitch]

That would please Wiggo, he is rather certain to ride Giro-Olympics schedule.

Wiggins will go for the Giro?

That would shock me but if he really went for it he would gain a lot of respect from me and hopefully a lot of others.

Stelvio is 2763m. From there you can only go higher on unpaved roads and these roads are insanely steep. The road to Ortlerhaus has 20 to 30%.

Isnt Grossglockner the highest mountain pass in europe? (though obviously they never went to the top this year seeing as Giau got Cimma Coppi status).

Going up 20%-30% roads to 2900 after Stelvio would be shocking. Really something. If they did it i would see it as almost as brave a decision as Crostis Zoncolan.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Isnt Grossglockner the highest mountain pass in europe? (though obviously they never went to the top this year seeing as Giau got Cimma Coppi status).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest_paved_roads_in_Europe

Top road is in Austria, but it's the road to the Tiefenbachferner. The Rettenbachferner climb goes up part of the way (to about 2670 if memory serves me correctly), but the road goes higher - just that that would put most of the last 2km in a tunnel!

The Cime de la Bonette is the next highest, but that is of course a loop that was added on to the existing Col for the purpose of being the highest road.

The highest pure paved pass in Europe is therefore the Col de l'Iseran at 2770m, just ahead of the Stelvio.

Edit: How on earth did Kaunertal get overlooked for the 'great unknown climbs' thread? 38,5km, averaging 5%, and there's a long period of flat in the middle, sure, but then the last 11km or so, you have 5km @ 9,2%, then a bit of false flat before averaging 10,4% for the last bit!

What's more, unlike Nivolet, there's actually a station at the top of the road, so you could most definitely put a race finishing there!

 

[Gloin22]

Wiggins will go for the Giro?

That would shock me but if he really went for it he would gain a lot of respect from me and hopefully a lot of others.

He said that the team would decide depending on recovery this year after the Tour, obviously he was out but Thomas doesnt look best. Then he said, if he's not doing Tour, he will go full for GC Giro with Thomas. And then prepare for Olympics.

 

[icefire]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest_paved_roads_in_Europe
...

LS, I didn't expect such inaccurate reference from you

That wiki list is a missing something: the highest dead end paved road in Europe is Mount Veleta. Tarmac ends at 3200 m.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcKXM721P8A

 

[The Hitch]

Why are so many famous climbs not on the list. Do they not qualify as paved roads or are they ignored? Zoncolan for example goes to 1800 or something but isnt on the list.

LS, I didn't expect such inaccurate reference from you

That wiki list is a missing something: the highest dead end paved road in Europe is Mount Veleta. Tarmac ends at 3200 m.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcKXM721P8A

That reminds me of when you mentioned during the Giro that the Spanish commentators were getting nationalistic about how Etna wasnt the highest active Volcano in Europe because theres one in Tenerife, lol.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Depending on whether you define the Caucasus Range to be in Europe or Asia, there's probably a few rideable, but unsealed, passes at over 3000m.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

LS, I didn't expect such inaccurate reference from you

That wiki list is a missing something: the highest dead end paved road in Europe is Mount Veleta. Tarmac ends at 3200 m.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcKXM721P8A

It does say it's incomplete. Certainly a lot of things not mentioned (no Torre/Serra da Estrela, for example, the only part of Portugal that would qualify, or some of the other Andorra roads like Arcalis, Pal and La Rabassa).

Hitch's query was whether Großglockner was the highest pass in Europe, however, and the link most certainly disproves that - while we may consider higher roads than the Ötztal Gletscherstraße, do we have any advance on the Col de l'Iseran for highest actual pass?

The other thing, of course, is that the definition of Europe is so fluid. Most places tend to use the Urals as a border, which is fine, but then where is the southern border? As has been mentioned, there are some roads in the Caucasus mountains that ascend beyond this. Then you have the strange definitions of Europe we get with competitions - Kazakhstan play in the European groups in soccer competitions for example, but only a crazy definition would consider them Europe - though they have roads going up very high indeed, some paved, some not.

 

[Michele]

Stelvio is 2763m. From there you can only go higher on unpaved roads and these roads are insanely steep. The road to Ortlerhaus has 20 to 30%.

Honestly I've no idea about Stelvio...but 20 to 30% is quiet insane indeed.

 

[Eshnar]

It seems there will be an MTF to Cervinia on stage 14. This would be really good if they approach it via St.Pantaleon...

 

[Eshnar]

now the strong rumour about the Alpe Di Pampeago has returned... it should be the 20th stage, preceeded by Tre Cime Di Lavaredo on stage 19. The Stelvio would be on the beginning of the third week, it's still not clear whether or not it'll be in the same stage of Mortirolo.

 

[Eshnar]

oh, almost forgot... Vegni confirmed a Strade Bianche stage.

 

[Zoncolan]

Looks like it will be another epic route.
Great to see Stelvio will be back. Was hoping for that for years.
Throw in two ITT and more than 3 token sprinter's stages, and we'll have a great race.

 

[killswitch]

Looks like it will be another epic route.
Great to see Stelvio will be back. Was hoping for that for years.
Throw in two ITT and more than 3 token sprinter's stages, and we'll have a great race.

+1
Another route made for Basso/Scarponi? Nibali better concentrate on the TDF then.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Looks like it will be another epic route.
Great to see Stelvio will be back. Was hoping for that for years.
Throw in two ITT and no more than 3 token sprinter's stages, and we'll have a great race.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Zoncolan]

Fixed that for you.

No, no. Don't be like that!
5 sprinters' stages
4 MTFs
2 ITTs
1 Downhill finish
1 more stage with high mountains
5 intermediate stages (escapes)
1 strade bianche
and a TTT?
That would be a perfect route.
@killswitch:well, we don't know enough yet, depends on the amount of ITT km. Also, if there is a downhill finish. Basso is crap on both accounts.
I thought i read the other day that Basso has pretty much given up on winning the Tour.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

A TTT and five whole wastes-of-a-day in a perfect route? I think not.

The TTT has no place outside of track cycling.

 

[Zoncolan]

A TTT and five whole wastes-of-a-day in a perfect route? I think not.

The TTT has no place outside of track cycling.

I wouldn't call a sprint stage a waste of a day. It's as much a part of road cycling as the TT or climbing/descending. With the start being in Denmark, you're pretty much guaranteed we'll have more than this year.

That's why there's a question mark with the TTT. Not really a huge fan (at least not the Armstrong era length).

Queen stage starting in Bormio, climbing Gavia from Valfurva, then Mortirolo from Monno side, up to Aprica and Ponte di Legno, Gavia from that side and finish on top of Stelvio in a snow storm. Drooling_)

 

[killswitch]

@killswitch:well, we don't know enough yet, depends on the amount of ITT km. Also, if there is a downhill finish. Basso is crap on both accounts.
I thought i read the other day that Basso has pretty much given up on winning the Tour.

Just a guess . Both are getting on a bit, so RCS could give them one more chance to win (TTT + less ITT km), before we get to the Guardini era. Cappechi/Agnoli/even Sagan could guide Basso if there are downhill finishes/strade bianchi stages.

Queen stage starting in Bormio, climbing Gavia from Valfurva, then Mortirolo from Monno side, up to Aprica and Ponte di Legno, Gavia from that side and finish on top of Stelvio in a snow storm. Drooling_)

Nieve likes that.

 

[roundabout]

extra difficult but not really stages = boring riding on stages that really matter

 

[Zoncolan]

Just a guess . Both are getting on a bit, so RCS could give them one more chance to win (TTT + less ITT km), before we get to the Guardini era. Cappechi/Agnoli/even Sagan could guide Basso if there are downhill finishes/strade bianchi stages.

I don't think RCS cares much for Scarponi. Basso is a different story.
As for downhills, even the best of dogs can guide a blind man only so fast. Arroyo owned him last year.
BTW as for the question of Alpe being used in the Giro: Italy has climbs that put it to shame. It has a place in the history of the Tour and it should stay in the Tour.

 

[Eshnar]

I made the route scheme of next year based on rumours...

Stage 1-3 We all know these
REST
Stage 4: TTT somewhere in Friuli
Stage 5: flat along the coast
Stage 6: flat along the coast
Stage 7: mixed stage TA style
Stage 8: MTF to Campitello Matese
Stage 9: flat or mixed stage heading north
Stage 10: Strade Bianche stage with finish (almost official) in Siena (the actual finish of MSB itself)
Stage 11: Mountain stage with San Pellegrino In Alpe and Abetone (this stage was strongly rumoured a month ago and nobody denied it nor rumoured another possible stage in Tuscany, so I still rate it as likely)
Stage 12: Finish in Rapallo, in memory of WW
Stage 13: Finish somewhere in Piemonte, flat or almost flat.
Stage 14: MTF to Cervinia (seems official), likely after Saint Pantaleon
Stage 15: This is tricky. Someone say it's the day of Stelvio, but it's strange because it would mean a pretty long transfer between two mountain stages (100+ kms at least, probly 150+). If it isn't so, then is likely a medium mountain stage on the GDL routes.
REST
Stage 16: Mortirolo/Aprica/Santa Cristina. Or Stelvio if it's not in stage 15.
Stage 17: sprinter's stage going south
Stage 18: ITT (flat or mixed, dunno)
Stage 19: Treviso - Tre Cime Di Lavaredo with Duran, Forcella Staulanza, Giau, Tre Croci.
Stage 20: MTF To L'Alpe Di Pampeago. The route is not clear (they could approach it via Passo Manghen or via Lavazé)
Stage 21: Flat stage to Milan

This is my interpretation of the rumours.

 

[Zoncolan]

Me like your interpretation
Strade Bianche, Mortirolo, Stelvio, Tre Cime...Epic!
I hope they squeeze in another ITT somewhere though.