Giro ad on US TV - Contador

[Benotti69]

who is Bottle gonna knife? is he gonna do Gunderon?

 

[Galic Ho]

Lots of people believe that myself included. Do you honestly feel that Floyd Landis is a Tour winner? I sure don't, he cheated. If Contador is banned, he should lose all results he achieved this season. Cheaters shouldn't have trophies.

***edited by mod*** Has Contador failed any tests this year? Nope. How then can you say he is doped and cheated this year? A failed test applies to the race in which the sample was given. Fans still know who won what and don't fall for the little PR manoeuvers that the pencil pushers politicise.

Perhaps you can enlighten us with who won last years Tour de Romandie? Last time I checked it was Valverde and I don't care what anyone else says. Anyone remember second place? Nope.

Most people round here are the same. The hard core fans know what's going on and most racing is done on the road. The benefit of a GT is one can dope in the first week and get caught and face removal from the peloton before the finale. One day events, classics and week long races that isn't a possibility, lab work takes too long. Want to know why Contador is still racing? Because the system says he's clean according to the standards applied by the UCI and WADA. The same system that said Lance was clean, despite some nice EPO positives.

Everyone knows Basso doped in 06 to win the Giro, nobody asked for his results to be stripped when he was banned. So why strip certain people's results and not others.? That's politics dude, stop being a naive fool. On the road is what matters for the fans and the back room discussions later have no relation to what happened on the bitumen. Racing and politics are separate. What you've done is apply a personal opinion on a particular rider and transfer it into a separate context that is unrelated. You're being hypocritical and supporting hypocrisy. Strip Floyd, but not others! Nice try there. Come back down to planet earth some time. You treat everyone with the same brush. No bias. No BS. Keep it real. One sport is dirty, but is the most tested, fine. But apply the same standards to your own or face a nasty comeuppance down the track.

As for the add. None of the links worked. Not that I care, but this isn't a surprise coming from American executives and advertisers. I take their lies with and BS with a grain of salt. Foreigners have heard enough stories on these forums to know the suits in charge are raving lunatics when it comes to cycling. Funny that nobody takes a shot at American sportsmen. Nobody lining an NFL star up, like Favre and his SMS photo fetish. Instead they berate the victim. Or Koby Bryant...yes well all know he's no spring chicken, earn enough and you can buy your way out of a rape charge. Why not take a swing at the dirty side of American sports...oh that's right, they're yanks. One rule for us, another for everyone else.

I'd happily wager NFL and Baseball are easily amongst the five most doped sports in the world. Some of the lines the teams PR guys pull when a squad member gets popped are ridiculous. I watched the garbage ESPN allowed a guy popped for roids to sprout and didn't question him once. The excuse was pulled straight out of the 90s cycling PR book. It was my diet. But that's America for you, at times one big clusterf#$k of idiocy, irony and hypocrisy rolled into one...especially when it comes to LA, doping and cycling.

I'll put it this way. Watch the ToC or the Giro? After last year, I know which one will actually have more than 4 guys actually working. The ToC, was Sagan, Rogers, Martin and Zabriskie for 8 days. That was it. It's not that hard to see what's going on. Lance's buddies are sticking up for him. Losers, get a grip and move on. Your boy was only good because of Ferrari. Novistky has that show almost under wraps and by the sounds of it the Italians are stepping up for another crack themselves.

This gets better. Last year there was a thread talking about a possible Giro visit to Washington DC in a few years. With advertising like this, it's gonna be hard to make friends in Europe. But America likes it diet of roid munching sports. I'm sure they'll be fine without European cycling, unless of course they are cycling fans.

Will American sports go the way of Germany? Hahaha. Maybe, but if they rip cycling apart and Lance Armstrong, their greatest hero for that matter, what makes you think they'll rip billion dollar leagues apart like the NFL, NBA, NHL and MLB? None, they'll never do enough...which says it all. It's about money and America. In this case, demonising a foreigner to take the focus of America's dirty cyclists.

 

[The Hitch]

Perhaps the brain trust over at UniVersus could learn a thing or two from this:
Brilliant promo for Paris-Roubaix


Nowbe that's more like it.

The best Dutch cycling advert was based around doping though

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya9RVtTjHB0

Credit?

I take credit for digging this up from its dark dark grave.

Its like who do you credit for the fact that we can all see the Tutankhamun tomb. the guys who dug it or the discoverers who found it dug it up and presented it to the world?

Who's in It?

Looking across the picture from left to right:

Bartholomew, James Minor and Andrew form a group of three. All are aghast, Andrew to the point of holding his hands up in a "stop!" gesture.

Judas, Peter and John form the next group of three. Judas, you will note, has his face in shadow and is clutching a small bag (of silver?). Peter is visibly angry and a feminine-looking John seems about to swoon.

Christ is the calm in the midst of the storm.

Thomas, James Major and Philip are next. Thomas is clearly agitated, James Major stunned and Philip seems to be seeking clarification.

Matthew, Thaddeus and Simon comprise the last group of three figures. It appears that, when a situation turns ugly, Simon is the "go to" guy for explanations.

Well Andrew only has his hand on the table and shoulder rather than the air on this one, but they are right about the Great One being in the middle

 

[Granville57]

Is Moviefan1203 the only intended target of this response? Because if it’s meant to be taken in a more general sense, then I am truly confused.

Funny that nobody takes a shot at American sportsmen. Why not take a swing at the dirty side of American sports...oh that's right, they're yanks. One rule for us, another for everyone else.

Are you familiar with Jeff Novitsky?

I'd happily wager NFL and Baseball are easily amongst the five most doped sports in the world.

Are any Americans disputing this?

I'll put it this way. Watch the ToC or the Giro?

Giro.
The ToC is the subject of endless jokes, on countess threads, in multiple sub-forums. Do you think that race is held in high regard by many informed American cyclists?

This gets better. Last year there was a thread talking about a possible Giro visit to Washington DC in a few years.

That was more than just “a thread” talking about it, it was Zomegnan himself who was talking about it.

For some time we have had the idea of holding the Giro's start in America. But now there exists a concrete interest from the city of Washington," said race director Angelo Zomegnan.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/giro-ditalia-considers-start-in-washington-dc

In this case, demonising a foreigner to take the focus of America's dirty cyclists.

Uh, yeah. I think that’s pretty much the reason why this thread was started. That’s exactly what they are doing it and why some of us are outraged by it.

 

[palmerq]

the picture seemed to be a bit big and messing with some peoples view of the forum, so I resized it, i think it has worked if it hasn't ehhhh it wasn't me :S

 

[Galic Ho]

Is Moviefan1203 the only intended target of this response? Because if it’s meant to be taken in a more general sense, then I am truly confused.

Are you familiar with Jeff Novitsky?

Nope. Of course I am. He's one man though. Does the average American citizen consider Armstrong a fraud?

Are any Americans disputing this?

Context dude. Context. I was hinting throughout that when it comes to American sports, America does not want to know. Pick your reason, but they don't want to know and worse, the authorities do not want to deal with it.

The only times doping in US sports gets hit on the head is when someone gives the USADA agency an email (Lemond) or walks into their offices with a syringe packed full of the good stuff (Balco) better known as the clear. Turncoats dude. Traitors depending on who you ask. The real cheaters if the vocal average American sports viewer is asked. Those guys are the reason doping gets mentioned in conjunction with US sports. The season oblivious viewers. It's no surprise then of the scope and focus of this advert. The media is as complicit in this doping charade as the dopers themselves. Fools on a fools ride. When the real truth comes out, the *** will really hit the fan. That's if the truth ever comes out.

The ToC is the subject of endless jokes, on countess threads, in multiple sub-forums. Do you think that race is held in high regard by many informed American cyclists?

Would you consider Bottle to be informed? I would, he knows what's going on dope wise and race wise. Why do you think he blows so hard? I think you mean American cycling viewers, not cyclists. I watched it last year. Boring, as I said, I named the 4 riders who tried day in, day out. Every ex US-postal rider bar Big Z was useless. I wonder why? You don't need to tell me about the ToC. Ben Day and some other US Conti riders were good, but that's it.

That was more than just “a thread” talking about it, it was Zomegnan himself who was talking about it.

My sentiment exactly. That advertising is not endearing to the RCS, regardless of the messages the heads in Italy have been saying about AC this past month. If you are asking for a handout, you don't spit on their hand first and then take what you are being offered. Beggars cannot be choosers and as we all know the ToC is woeful. Bad marketing and bad business with the Italians given what has been floated last year. I'd be ****ed if I was an Italian power broker. Perhaps the Italian tv stations can run a similar advert for the ToC with some nice jokes about whether Floyd will show up again and drop the bomb on the Shack leading to said team capitulating and doing nothing other than waste valuable spots that should have gone to more deserving riders and entertaing riders.

Uh, yeah. I think that’s pretty much the reason why this thread was started. That’s exactly what they are doing it and why some of us are outraged by it.

If I were American and a cycling fan, I'd be pi$$ed too. There are plenty of Americans who know what is happening and call a spade a spade. It's dollars dude. Nothing more, nothing less. American sports and athletes are worth more viewer wise. That is why the sports channels and media collectively do not attack dopers with intensity, but instead shirk and hide from the issue. I've heard all the stories about the US cycling cronies, and I'd wager they are worse than I've heard. It is why the average person doesn't question, instead the naively assume everything is all good and sit back and believe. They like what they've got, no point in uprooting a supposed good thing. Marketing and advertising areheaps of fun to study, because you learn a great deal about how people think and react. It's mostly about conning people into handing over something for a thing they do not need. Well in this case, the power brokers owe favours and stand to lose lots of money and it's a cycling soft spot. The second coming went bottoms up. That's why Americans are rarely ever attacked in American media. Do you think the Aussie media are any different? Nope. But there are fewer of them. Most countries don't keep their own shop in order, it's left to outsiders to point fingers, or those like Novitsky who believe in accountability. Thank God those people have nads and use em.

 

[Archibald]

Originally Posted by Granville57
Perhaps the brain trust over at UniVersus could learn a thing or two from this:
Brilliant promo for Paris-Roubaix


Nowbe that's more like it.

The best Dutch cycling advert was based around doping though

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya9RVtTjHB0

at around .45 in the Roubaix one you actually see Arvesen's missing seat - funny stuff! Pity about the studio wheel shots though...

as for the Dutch ad, that's funny as f*ck!!


back to the Giro ad - it's just mindnumbingly stupid. I don't care if it's "allegedly" refering to chaingate, but what a crock of sh*t

 

[Granville57]

Nope. Of course I am. He's one man though. Does the average American citizen consider Armstrong a fraud?

I think with the growing suspicions, the Bonds trial, the impending Clemens trial, the ever-growing amounts of press that have moved from whispers to screams...
Yes. I think if the average American doesn't already think that LA is a fraud, they soon will. Will they care? Yet to be determined.

I was hinting throughout that when it comes to American sports, America does not want to know.

As stated above. I believe it's more a matter of: they just don't care a great deal. Most people know that it has been going on across the board in all types of sports. I think if anything, fatigue of the issue is setting in.

The media is as complicit in this doping charade as the dopers themselves. Fools on a fools ride. When the real truth comes out, the *** will really hit the fan. That's if the truth ever comes out.

Agree 100%

I think you mean American cycling viewers, not cyclists.

Yup. I was in a bit of a hurry. You got it right though.

Perhaps the Italian tv stations can run a similar advert for the ToC with some nice jokes about whether Floyd will show up again and drop the bomb on the Shack leading to said team capitulating and doing nothing other than waste valuable spots that should have gone to more deserving riders and entertaing riders.

I might actually pay to see THAT!


It would appear that we are mostly in agreement on these issues then.

 

[Galic Ho]

I think with the growing suspicions, the Bonds trial, the impending Clemens trial, the ever-growing amounts of press that have moved from whispers to screams...
Yes. I think if the average American doesn't already think that LA is a fraud, they soon will. Will they care? Yet to be determined.

As stated above. I believe it's more a matter of: they just don't care a great deal. Most people know that it has been going on across the board in all types of sports. I think if anything, fatigue of the issue is setting in.

I think that's it about American sports viewers in general. They've known for a long time, it's just the vocal nut huggers that latch onto guys like LA that give the average viewer a bad name. People don't ask questions because, well they don't need to. Nor do they care much for it. If this is true more or less for the average viewer, than this ad does more harm than good. Not because it mentions doping in regards to a big sports name, rather than it doesn't shed light on the whole issue. It's selective bias and sadly that damages the sport of cycling and the industry itself. The US cycling market is big money. I can't imagine Specialized are jumping up and down in support of this snippet. If they're going to focus on doping, go the whole hog. Otherwise, leave it to the feds, the suits, the legal processes, etc to deal with it and only mention it in news highlights. Don't use it to get airtime for the sport.

 

[pedaling squares]

***edited by mod*** Has Contador failed any tests this year?

I imagine that he was saying that Contador should lose any results from this year as it is a time when he should have been suspended. Which is a fair point to debate even if you disagree with the notion.

I removed the insult to the guy's intelligence. I don't think that others' intelligence is best assessed by how closely their opinion mirrors your own.

 

[Galic Ho]

I imagine that he was saying that Contador should lose any results from this year as it is a time when he should have been suspended. Which is a fair point to debate even if you disagree with the notion.

I removed the insult to the guy's intelligence. I don't think that others' intelligence is best assessed by how closely their opinion mirrors your own.

Fair points. But it once again drags up the old issue of who decides what is erased and to whom the banning occurs. If the UCI and WADA cannot get their act together and get a rider into court, too bad. I ask for no special treatments. I ask for accountability and across the board fair treatment. Valverde lost his results and never tested positive. Fair enough, if CAS reban AC, it does make logical sense to assume then that he should not have been racing in the period between his positive sample and subsequent CAS ruling, thus erase the results. But that brush, the one that tars the real racing is selective. It is not uniform and shows horrible bias. Hence my reference to intelligence. To deny these facets, but demand AC be banned is IMO daft. It's not alright to erase one riders results but not anothers. So IMO, I'd say let him keep them, as long as he doesn't again test positive. He still gets the ban and loses the Tour from 2010. But if he wins this years Giro and Tour...I say let him keep em. Too bad the system cannot do it's job. That's politics and lawyers for you.

 

[M Sport]

Valverde lost his results and never tested positive.

His blood was in the bag. That is a positive.

Re the rest of your post. CAS will decide. It's quite a simple formula though and I will try to quickly summarise it for you.

If CAS overturn the decision and ban him for more than 9 months + i.e. roughly up until today or longer he will lose all results between and including the TDF and now. If he is banned for 6-7 months or less he will keep the results (except TdF) as he had already served the time.

Basso etc aren't comparable, they served a full term and didn't resume racing until after the ban.