Giro descending competition

[Nick C.]

Re:

i thought riders have brains of their own...

Yes but they all have different brains and now it makes others more at risk for the actions of those with less brains or sense or risk modulation. There is something unseemly with providing rewards for people to take extra risks in an activity already risky. I know we only focus on the deaths, but what of the broken bones and other injuries that occur.as the sprint comparison is not quite on as in sprints a there are rules, in theory, intended to make things less hazardous, such as not deviating from ones line.

If they wanted to do this right, do it over unannounced sectors since they probably all have microchips in the bikes and can time them. Though some would say then they make every descent a "madhouse."

 

[PeterB]

Re: Re:

If they wanted to do this right, do it over unannounced sectors since they probably all have microchips in the bikes and can time them. Though some would say then they make every descent a "madhouse."

This is actually an interesting point - how will they time everyone? I guess numerous times there are riders on spare bikes, on bikes of their teammates... and the tracking device is on the bike, right? Will they have cameras at the start and end of each segment to make sure they can identify everyone properly?

 

[mcduff]

If they fit cameras to the bikes it will be awesome. I'm not sure its a very good idea though.

 

[gospina]

I can think of at least 4 jerseys I rather see than fastest descender:

1) Fastest climber. Doesn't have to win the stage, just go up the mountains faster than others. KOM just meant you got there 1st, not fastest.
2) Old timer jersey. Like the white jersey, only grey, for 35+ riders only.
3) Best TT rider. Combined time of all TT stages, including TTTs and prologues PLUS 1 pre-designated segments per STAGE. Some segments are uphill, some are downhill, some are flat.
4) Best Engine. Timed by who spents the most time pulling a group (5 or more). Could be breakaway, could be chasing group, could be the peloton.

 

[GraftPunk]

Maybe organizers should have the financial rewards go to a rider charity for those injured or families of riders lost as a donation in the winner's name, that way it happens organically during the race and benefit those who need it most.

 

[Angliru]

I can think of at least 4 jerseys I rather see than fastest descender:

1) Fastest climber. Doesn't have to win the stage, just go up the mountains faster than others. KOM just meant you got there 1st, not fastest.
2) Old timer jersey. Like the white jersey, only grey, for 35+ riders only.
3) Best TT rider. Combined time of all TT stages, including TTTs and prologues PLUS 1 pre-designated segments per STAGE. Some segments are uphill, some are downhill, some are flat.
4) Best Engine. Timed by who spents the most time pulling a group (5 or more). Could be breakaway, could be chasing group, could be the peloton.

I like all of this!

 

[Jungle Cycle]

that must be some chinese idea...

 

[blaxland]

My bad but i like the idea...anything to help me through the boredom of modern road racing(eg;racing only the last climb of the day)

 

[chiocciolis_calves]

There is about a 0% chance the hyperbolic predictions here will prove true.

Do points jerseys cause more broken bones, mayhem and death? Which has traditionally led to more injuries: sprints or descents?

 

[Tim B]

Pick the guy on the start line with disc brakes, crash helmet and body armor for a clue as to who might be contesting this...

 

[klintE]

I can think of at least 4 jerseys I rather see than fastest descender:

1) Fastest climber. Doesn't have to win the stage, just go up the mountains faster than others. KOM just meant you got there 1st, not fastest.
2) Old timer jersey. Like the white jersey, only grey, for 35+ riders only.
3) Best TT rider. Combined time of all TT stages, including TTTs and prologues PLUS 1 pre-designated segments per STAGE. Some segments are uphill, some are downhill, some are flat.
4) Best Engine. Timed by who spents the most time pulling a group (5 or more). Could be breakaway, could be chasing group, could be the peloton.

5) Most crafty wheelsucker. Measured 1-5 in Mathews scale.

 

[Archibald]

Re:

Dumb idea - as they say in the movies, "what could possibly go wrong?" ...

"I've got a bad feeling about this..."

 

[StryderHells]

I can think of at least 4 jerseys I rather see than fastest descender:

1) Fastest climber. Doesn't have to win the stage, just go up the mountains faster than others. KOM just meant you got there 1st, not fastest.
2) Old timer jersey. Like the white jersey, only grey, for 35+ riders only.
3) Best TT rider. Combined time of all TT stages, including TTTs and prologues PLUS 1 pre-designated segments per STAGE. Some segments are uphill, some are downhill, some are flat.
4) Best Engine. Timed by who spents the most time pulling a group (5 or more). Could be breakaway, could be chasing group, could be the peloton.

Surely we already have enough jerseys in the race

 

[movingtarget]

Riders will have too much on their mind to be thinking of winning such a dumb competition. The winner will not even know he has won. Maybe that's the idea like a surprise party ? Wonder what the prize is .

 

[Armchair cyclist]

The Giro has many minor titles: 3 team classifications (including fair play), a second points competition (just top 3 each day), combativity (points for intermediate, KoM and finish line places), kilometres in breakaways, and now this. They'll have to start riding with spreadsheets on their Garmins at this rate.

 

[May0maniac]

Re:

Riders will have too much on their mind to be thinking of winning such a dumb competition. The winner will not even know he has won. Maybe that's the idea like a surprise party ? Wonder what the prize is .

I already posted it, 500 for the winner of a segment an 5000€ for the overall winner (a 2nd place on a stage is worth more than that). If the split it up between team members and staff like the usual price money it's just peanuts, why would anyone be wiling to take risks for such a small amount of money?

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Riders will have too much on their mind to be thinking of winning such a dumb competition. The winner will not even know he has won. Maybe that's the idea like a surprise party ? Wonder what the prize is .

I already posted it, 500 for the winner of a segment an 5000€ for the overall winner (a 2nd place on a stage is worth more than that). If the split it up between team members and staff like the usual price money it's just peanuts, why would anyone be wiling to take risks for such a small amount of money?

Podium and camera time. Most of the minor competitions are not about the money, it's about getting the sponsors name in front of the camera.

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

There is about a 0% chance the hyperbolic predictions here will prove true.

Do points jerseys cause more broken bones, mayhem and death? Which has traditionally led to more injuries: sprints or descents?

Points jerseys are decided by the first few riders to cross the line each time, the comparison here is not equivalent.

General crashes probably cause the most injuries if we are just going to lump everything in together. Crashes on descents kill people. I can't think of anyone who died from a crash in a sprint (I'm sure there must be some?), I could probably name 5 who did on a descent.

 

[DFA123]

I don't think it's such a bad idea. It's not giving much more motivation for most riders to be taking risks on descents than currently exists in races anyway - e.g. trying to distance a GC rival, trying to win a stage, trying to catch back on to a group up the road etc... I think you often don't see it on TV, but it's common to see a small group at the top of a climb swell into a big one by the bottom - and the riders that got back on certainly took a few risks. Likewise, when the Gruppetto want to make a time limit, or when there is a puncture etc... riders are forced to push really hard on descents. And there is a lot more to lose in those scenarios than with some minor prize. Until descent times are neutralized, then some riders will always take big risks to gain an advantage.

This competition doesn't really change that, imo, it just gives a prize to riders who are technically proficient in the department. It's also quite an easy one for riders to opt out of if they don't feel safe.

 

[Pennino]

Oh I've changed my mind. Such a terrible idea.

Gosh how sick minded can one be? Almost as sick as the guy who invented the idea to award a jersey to some skeleton on a bike who can race as fast as possible in 21 stages across Italy, France or Spain.

 

[SafeBet]

Re: Re:

You suggested that Formula 1 drivers don't get killed every few races any more because "they are pros and know their limits" and "value their lives more than a win".

That's not the point I was trying to make, but I'm not as eloquent as I'd like to be in english.

What I was trying to say is that Formula 1, as all motor sports and high speed sports in general, (still to this day) involves a huge amount of risks for the competitors. I approve of all the measures the organizers took to make these sports safer, but they are still dangerous, potentially fatal. And the athletes know that. It's mostly up to them to understand the limit, which they normally do.

I'm neither in favor or against this competition. I think it won't change much in the riders' head. Those who wanted to take risks going downhill will do it regardless, and those who feel unsafe taking risks will keep riding the way they did until today.

 

[RedheadDane]

Re:

Riders will have too much on their mind to be thinking of winning such a dumb competition. The winner will not even know he has won. Maybe that's the idea like a surprise party ? Wonder what the prize is .

Exactly. This will just be officially acknowleding (sp?) something which always happens; someone being the fastest on the descends.
Maybe this whole controversy could have been avoided if the organisation simply hadn't told anyone about it - and skipped on "on stage" prizes - then, during the final podium ceremony in Milan: SURPRISE!

[quote="chiocciolis_calves":3ogontr6]There is about a 0% chance the hyperbolic predictions here will prove true.

Do points jerseys cause more broken bones, mayhem and death? Which has traditionally led to more injuries: sprints or descents?

Points jerseys are decided by the first few riders to cross the line each time, the comparison here is not equivalent.

General crashes probably cause the most injuries if we are just going to lump everything in together. Crashes on descents kill people. I can't think of anyone who died from a crash in a sprint (I'm sure there must be some?), I could probably name 5 who did on a descent.[/quote]

Serse Coppi.
And I recently read that Kivilev's accident happened on a completely innocent-seeming stretch of road, and that they weren't even going that fast.
Also, what about Boeckman's accident in the 2015 vuelta? Yes, he survived, but it was a close call. That was also just a stretch of road.

 

[King Boonen]

Re: Re:

Serse Coppi.
And I recently read that Kivilev's accident happened on a completely innocent-seeming stretch of road, and that they weren't even going that fast.
Also, what about Boeckman's accident in the 2015 vuelta? Yes, he survived, but it was a close call. That was also just a stretch of road.

I'm pretty sure Serse fell before the sprint started.

Not sure what point you are trying to make about people falling at supposedly easier parts of a race?

 

[RedheadDane]

That it can happen anywhere.
If the riders aren't that eager to participate in this new competition - and they don't really seem to be - then they probably won't actively contest it, and so nothing will really have changed. The competition will not make them go downhill faster, or take any more risks, than they always have.

 

[Robert5091]

Re: Re:

Riders will have too much on their mind to be thinking of winning such a dumb competition. The winner will not even know he has won. Maybe that's the idea like a surprise party ? Wonder what the prize is .

Exactly. This will just be officially acknowleding (sp?) something which always happens; someone being the fastest on the descends.
Maybe this whole controversy could have been avoided if the organisation simply hadn't told anyone about it - and skipped on "on stage" prizes - then, during the final podium ceremony in Milan: SURPRISE!

Serse Coppi.
And I recently read that Kivilev's accident happened on a completely innocent-seeming stretch of road, and that they weren't even going that fast.
Also, what about Boeckman's accident in the 2015 vuelta? Yes, he survived, but it was a close call. That was also just a stretch of road.

Yeah, and there's TV motos and dogs and old women and spectators doing crazy stuff to "get on TV", so why increase the chance of cyclists getting hurt? Sorry, dumb idea. Better to give the prize money to the families of those who've perished.