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Giro descending competition

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Re:

RedheadDane said:
That it can happen anywhere.
If the riders aren't that eager to participate in this new competition - and they don't really seem to be - then they probably won't actively contest it, and so nothing will really have changed. The competition will not make them go downhill faster, or take any more risks, than they always have.

Yes, we are all fully aware it can happen anywhere, I'm pretty sure no-one ever said it couldn't, I certainly didn't.

The problem with a fastest to the bottom, rather than a first to the bottom is the active group of riders isn't dictated by their position on the road. Usually, if you do not want to be involved in a competitive part of a race you can hang back in the bunch, out of the way of the sprinters, trains, Puncheurs etc. who are competing for lines and space.

In this competition, hanging back could actively put you in harms way, as the obvious way to win such a competition is to hold back on the climb and then thread yourself through bunches and vehicles using as much draft as you can.
 
You're not reading what I'm writing, are you?
If nobody is contesting the competition - and nobody seems that eager to - then the winner will be the rider who just so happens to have been the fastest, just like there has always been a rider who just so happens to be the fastest. On the individual days - which has a prize for the competition - he might have been at the front, and he might have been in the gruppeto. As for the overall winner; well... he might end up having won the whole thing.
 
Re:

RedheadDane said:
You're not reading what I'm writing, are you?
If nobody is contesting the competition - and nobody seems that eager to - then the winner will be the rider who just so happens to have been the fastest, just like there has always been a rider who just so happens to be the fastest. On the individual days - which has a prize for the competition - he might have been at the front, and he might have been in the gruppeto. As for the overall winner; well... he might end up having won the whole thing.

It's a competition that gets riders camera time for their sponsors and you think no-one will contest it?
 
The way they've been reacting to it, I honestly don't think they will. In fact, this could be a very good way to protest it; simply ignore it. The riders have the power to do that.
Besides, considering that the riders who get the prize on the individual days might very well be in the gruppeto, he'll probably have finished - and get on the podium - long after the TV coverage has ended. And if a guy like, say, Nibali was the get it for a day - or the overall - then he's probably not gonna care about one more podium appearance.
 
Re:

RedheadDane said:
The way they've been reacting to it, I honestly don't think they will. In fact, this could be a very good way to protest it; simply ignore it. The riders have the power to do that.
Besides, considering that the riders who get the prize on the individual days might very well be in the gruppeto, he'll probably have finished - and get on the podium - long after the TV coverage has ended. And if a guy like, say, Nibali was the get it for a day - or the overall - then he's probably not gonna care about one more podium appearance.
A few big name riders on twitter are not the majority of the peloton, struggling for contracts on teams struggling for sponsorship. Camera-time is not just TV, it's papers, magazines, websites, interviews. It's gold dust for those small teams and little known riders who have a way to throw themselves into the lime-light.

Seems it's been cancelled which is pretty much the best we could hope for.
 
And so it truly will mean nothing.
But even if it hadn't been, I just chose to trust that all the riders - including those little known riders on small teams - would be smart/decent enough to not risk theirs and others' health for a deep-down meaningless competition.
 
Nov 29, 2010
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On the one hand it's not exactly promoting safety so I can understand why it's taken out.

On the other hand though when I see more crashes than ever before in the sport as a rider takes out 20 people because he makes a dangerous maneuver it seems like the riders don't really care. They need to start policing themselves more.
 
Re:

tobydawq said:
The competition is cancelled.
Shame, would have been good fun to watch some of the technique on display.

Maybe they'll neutralize downhills as far as the GC is concerned as well. After all, in the last Giro, Kruijswijk and Zakarin both fell pretty heavily because other riders were taking big risks on the descent to try to win a competition.
 
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Just shift all racing to riders on turbo trainers (with camber) wearing VR helmets already and we won't have to worry about safety issues related to poor decision making or bad luck.
 
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TDF 2003, Stage 9 ( aka "Descent Into Gap") LA chasing JB was a heart thumper. Fan or foe you could not witness that phase of the race and not be in awe of, more than just the daring, the bike handling skill of both men.

..and yet, after what was perhaps an historic downhill battle between two elite cyclists, one's career was vaulted to (near?) legend, the other's, sadly, drew quickly to an end.

How can you separate the passion of racing from the rationality of consequence?
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
tobydawq said:
The competition is cancelled.
Shame, would have been good fun to watch some of the technique on display.

Maybe they'll neutralize downhills as far as the GC is concerned as well. After all, in the last Giro, Kruijswijk and Zakarin both fell pretty heavily because other riders were taking big risks on the descent to try to win a competition.
Surely you see the difference.
 
Re: Re:

Brullnux said:
DFA123 said:
tobydawq said:
The competition is cancelled.
Shame, would have been good fun to watch some of the technique on display.

Maybe they'll neutralize downhills as far as the GC is concerned as well. After all, in the last Giro, Kruijswijk and Zakarin both fell pretty heavily because other riders were taking big risks on the descent to try to win a competition.
Surely you see the difference.
I don't think there is a great difference. Descents are timed currently as part of the GC and for a stage win (although obviously not with a separate time). If you lose time on the descent then it could cost you the stage or the overall GC. And stronger descenders often try to drop other GC rivals, or rivals for the stage win, on them - taking big risks at times and forcing others to take big risks to stay with them.

The only difference with the official downhill competition is that you get a separate time for the descents, rather than them just having an effect on the cumulative time. Oh, and also that the stakes would have been a lot lower in the downhill competition - so it would have been a lot easier for riders to opt out than when a high GC place or stage win is on the line.
 
If it's really true that Vegni was disappointed with criticism of this new idea, it's really amateurish from him to come with it and not anticipating resistance from riders. I mean, what did he expect? This is a type of change which deserves to be first tested in some smaller race or even discussed with riders' union or whoever to slowly gather support from riders and public. And not throwing it all of the sudden on the biggest race of the year...
 
Re: Re:

DFA123 said:
Brullnux said:
DFA123 said:
tobydawq said:
The competition is cancelled.
Shame, would have been good fun to watch some of the technique on display.

Maybe they'll neutralize downhills as far as the GC is concerned as well. After all, in the last Giro, Kruijswijk and Zakarin both fell pretty heavily because other riders were taking big risks on the descent to try to win a competition.
Surely you see the difference.
I don't think there is a great difference. Descents are timed currently as part of the GC and for a stage win (although obviously not with a separate time). If you lose time on the descent then it could cost you the stage or the overall GC. And stronger descenders often try to drop other GC rivals, or rivals for the stage win, on them - taking big risks at times and forcing others to take big risks to stay with them.

The only difference with the official downhill competition is that you get a separate time for the descents, rather than them just having an effect on the cumulative time. Oh, and also that the stakes would have been a lot lower in the downhill competition - so it would have been a lot easier for riders to opt out than when a high GC place or stage win is on the line.
Completely incomparable.
GC riders can take all the risks on descends as they like without putting other riders in danger, because they are usually attacking at or close to the front of the race.

For a small group of lesser riders it would have been an opportunity to get something out of the Giro, and in their case the competition would have promoted an incentive to descend hazardously from the back through entire groups. Not to mention it makes no sense for the viewers, because it's impossible to show the time tracking for every single rider in a TV format.

Glad they're cancelling it.
 
Re: Re:

Cance > TheRest said:
DFA123 said:
Brullnux said:
DFA123 said:
tobydawq said:
The competition is cancelled.
Shame, would have been good fun to watch some of the technique on display.

Maybe they'll neutralize downhills as far as the GC is concerned as well. After all, in the last Giro, Kruijswijk and Zakarin both fell pretty heavily because other riders were taking big risks on the descent to try to win a competition.
Surely you see the difference.
I don't think there is a great difference. Descents are timed currently as part of the GC and for a stage win (although obviously not with a separate time). If you lose time on the descent then it could cost you the stage or the overall GC. And stronger descenders often try to drop other GC rivals, or rivals for the stage win, on them - taking big risks at times and forcing others to take big risks to stay with them.

The only difference with the official downhill competition is that you get a separate time for the descents, rather than them just having an effect on the cumulative time. Oh, and also that the stakes would have been a lot lower in the downhill competition - so it would have been a lot easier for riders to opt out than when a high GC place or stage win is on the line.
Completely incomparable.
GC riders can take all the risks on descends as they like without putting other riders in danger, because they are usually attacking at or close to the front of the race.

For a small group of lesser riders it would have been an opportunity to get something out of the Giro, and in their case the competition would have promoted an incentive to descend hazardously from the back through entire groups. Not to mention it makes no sense for the viewers, because it's impossible to show the time tracking for every single rider in a TV format.

Glad they're cancelling it.
I think you're missing the point. What I'm saying is that the incentive is already there for riders to descend 'dangerously' or as hard as they can. Riders already try to pass others on descents to get better lines or to put lesser descenders out of their comfort zone. Two of the last three Giri were arguably decided on descents. Countless stages are decided on descents. Riders dropped on a climb take crazy risks on descents to rejoin a group. The Gruppetto sometimes have to take big risks on the descents to stay in time limit... and many other situations.

All of those situations encourage risky descending and have far more at stake than a minor 'downhill competition'. Yet, there is no call to ban them. And yet, on most days, the majority of riders in the peloton still decide the risk v reward isn't worth it. Just like they would with this minor downhill competition. You'd end up with just a handful of riders competing for it, and they would probably drop back on the climbs to give themselves a bit of space to descend and pick their own lines.
 
This is a very interesting - and poignant - take on the matter.

https://cyclingtips.com/2017/05/six-years-brother-wouters-passing-elke-weylandt-shares-views-giros-descending-competition/

Yeah, I guess the woman who lost her brother to a crash on a descend in this very race has a right to have her voice heard.
Still, I truly had hoped that even if the competition had survived the riders wouldn't have changed anything in their way of riding. That it would just have become one of those silly little competitions the riders win without even realising it.
 
I can't see how this competition could have possibly been implemented in a way that would have been effective in a competitive sense.
Good to see it gone.
Hopefully this decision will lessen the number of idiotic "riders wouldn't get hurt if they simply never made mistakes" posts littered in the Giro discussions. (if only cyclists were robots instead of humans! Blaming the victim..)