Giro d'Italia 2021 Race Thread - Enthusiastic Laymen Edition

[red_flanders]

Help me understand the Masnada comments. So he got 9th in the Giro last year, in what we all would have to say was a weakened field. Almeida got 4th. He took a nice 6th in Tirreno. He got 3rd by a second in Romandie this year, it's a nice result.

He's a really good rider. I like him. But people really think he's going to lead over Almeida and Evenepoel? Seriously?

I don't get it. Help me out.

 

[Savant12]

I'd probably put more faith in Moscon as a good climbing domestique than both Castroviejo and Narvaez at this point. I think they lack one good climber in the team. Although as soon as one of Sivakov or Bernal loses some time and they decide to back only one leader and the other becomes a full time helper, it'll suddenly change my perception probably.

Castroviejo, judged on past performances, should easily get into any Ineos GC team. I'd pick him ahead of Moscon, although Moscon does look good this year.

 

[SafeBet]

Help me understand the Masnada comments. So he got 9th in the Giro last year, in what we all would have to say was a weakened field. Almeida got 4th. He took a nice 6th in Tirreno. He got 3rd by a second in Romandie this year, it's a nice result.

He's a really good rider. I like him. But people really think he's going to lead over Almeida and Evenepoel? Seriously?

I don't get it. Help me out.

People is actually one forum user.

 

[Pantani_lives]

A poll with all the favorites would have been more interesting. This one was just set up to make Evenepoel win something.

GC riders:
Bernal, S. Yates
Evenepoel, Landa, Vlasov
Nibali, Soler, Buchmann, Hindley
Bilbao, Bardet, G. Bennett, Carthy
Formolo, Sivakov, Almeida, Caruso, D. Martin

Sprinters:
Ewan
Sagan, Nizzolo
Groenewegen, Merlier, Gaviria

Time trialists:
Ganna
Evenepoel, Cavagna

Stage hunters:
De Gendt, De Marchi
Ciccone, Ulissi
Bettiol, Moscon, Visconti, L. L. Sánchez, Gallopin, Nieve, Oss

[Edit: I added Vincenzo Nibali, an obscure youngster who's easily overlooked.]

 

[red_flanders]

People is actually one forum user.

Thanks, I hadn’t noticed, just saw a couple posts about it.

 

[tobydawq]

That poll ?
No Nibali but Mollema ?
Bardet and Hindley not separated..Both have been 2nd in a GT
Has anyone seen Almedia climb ?
Vlasov and 3 weeks ?


I think that poll is just another opportunity for Evenepol fans to keep the hype high...Why leave out Yates and Bernal ?

Probably because BlueRoads is trying a little too hard to be unconventional with her poll options. I would also have liked to see who would have been picked as favourite.

 

[Mayomaniac]

A poll with all the favorites would have been more interesting. This one was just set up to make Evenepoel win something.

GC riders:
Bernal, S. Yates
Evenepoel, Landa, Vlasov
Soler, Buchmann, Hindley
Bilbao, Bardet, G. Bennett, Carthy
Formolo, Sivakov, Almeida, Caruso, D. Martin

Sprinters:
Ewan
Sagan, Nizzolo
Groenewegen, Merlier, Gaviria

Time trialists:
Ganna
Evenepoel, Cavagna

Stage hunters:
De Gendt, De Marchi
Ciccone, Ulissi
Bettiol, Moscon, Visconti, L. L. Sánchez, Gallopin, Nieve, Oss

I hope Formolo has finally abandoned his gc ambitions and just goes stagehunting. Stagewins after a long, +30km solo ride are much better than somehow ending up 10th on the gc because one or more gc riders had a meltdown on the final mountain stage.

 

[SafeBet]

Thanks, I hadn’t noticed, just saw a couple posts about it.

Now in fairness, I think Masnada is an interesting case of a late bloomer, the kind of slow developer who was probably a bit more common a few years ago and that we've almost forgotten due to the recent success of extremely young riders.

@Mayomaniac reported a few days ago that Masnada was a good u23 rider. And even though results are not flashy I tend to believe him since he's among the posters with the best knowledge of Italian (and Austrian) prospects.
Masnada then took a few years to adapt to the pros riding with Androni. His results were far from spectacular but you can see a trend, he improved every year. He was 26th in his maiden GT, which is a clear marker of good recovery. He also scored a few good results in minor stage races (mostly in China, to be fair).
He then kept improving after signing for WT teams, first CCC and then DQS. I agree that last year's top10 in the Giro should be put into context, but it's still a top10 for a rider who got very few chances to ride a GT in his career.
And he took another step in 2021, his performance on Thyon 2000 was incredible, beating proven climbers like Porte, Izagirre, Kelderman, etc, and it was followed by probably his best TT ever.

So yeah, I agree that having him as a *** favorite for the Giro is crazy, but I won't be completely shocked if at the end of the Giro he's the best DQS rider in GC, considering all the question marks surrounding Remco.

His career trajectory reminds me a bit of Pello Bilbao's one. We never took him seriously until we realized he was fighting for a GT podium at 30 years old.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Now in fairness, I think Masnada is an interesting case of a late bloomer, the kind of slow developer who was probably a bit more common a few years ago and that we've almost forgotten due to the recent success of extremely young riders.

@Mayomaniac reported a few days ago that Masnada was a good u23 rider. And even though results are not flashy I tend to believe him since he's among the posters with the best knowledge of Italian (and Austrian) prospects.
Masnada then took a few years to adapt to the pros riding with Androni. His results were far from spectacular but you can see a trend, he improved every year. He was 26th in his maiden GT, which is a clear marker of good recovery. He also scored a few good results in minor stage races (mostly in China, to be fair).
He then kept improving after signing for WT teams, first CCC and then DQS. I agree that last year's top10 in the Giro should be put into context, but it's still a top10 for a rider who got very few chances to ride a GT in his career.
And he took another step in 2021, his performance on Thyon 2000 was incredible, beating proven climbers like Porte, Izagirre, Kelderman, etc, and it was followed by probably his best TT ever.

So yeah, I agree that having him as a *** favorite for the Giro is crazy, but I won't be completely shocked if at the end of the Giro he's the best DQS rider in GC, considering all the question marks surrounding Remco.

His career trajectory reminds me a bit of Pello Bilbao's one. We never took him seriously until we realized he was fighting for a GT podium at 30 years old.

Yeah, not everyone developes at the same speed.
Like I said, Masnada was 6th on the gc in the Giro della Valle d'Aosta as a first year u23 rider, but then he had to deal with Mononucleosis and injuries, that really slowed his progress down.
Overall it wouldn't surprise me if he'd finish ahead of Almeida on the gc, if he can hold this kind of form for the whole Giro. There's not a lot of kms of ITT and many hard MTFs, for Almeida the route is worse than the one that we had last year.

 

[BlueRoads]

Okay, maybe it's because I'm a bit oversensitive at the moment, but I'm starting to get offended, and I don't mean it as a joke this time.
If you make a poll, you can only choose ten options. No, I'm not an Evenepoel-fan, no, I didn't slight Nibali by purpose but because he wasn't even safely on the startlist by then and has a fractured wrist, and I didn't try to be especially left-wing with my picks for this but tried to fit in those options as good as I could which I thought would be picked the most or are most reasonable.
I would have liked to include Martinez, but there was no spot left.
Bernal and Yates are already in the title, as you can see. I thought that if I set up a simple poll, everybody would pick Yates, so I excluded these two - to me - super-favourites. Yates because he looked superior lately, Bernal because he kind of recently won the Tour.
I chose Evenepoel because many people believe in him.
Almeida because he's DQS's co-leader and they bring a string GC team which to me shows they are very serious about this.
Didn't choose Masnada because I didn't think there could be any discussion that he's a domestique.
Chose Vlasov because Astana believe he can win.
Chose Landa because a lot of people believe in him.
Chose Buchmann because personally I believe he's good for a podium, he got into crosswinds at UAE and left behind on the descent lately, so I still believe in him, but I may be biased here, okay.
Carthy has his weaknesses, but he's an attacking rider and on his day he can be the strongest climber. There's a lot of climbing.
Dan Martin is a guy I ususally underestimate and don't rate so highly, he usually surprises me, so I thought I wouldn't make that mistake this time.
Bardet and Hindley as one option as I don't think their chances are toooo high, and I didn't have many spots left. They are co-leaders. Had them as two options first, but then decided I couldn't leave out Sivakov who after all is Ineos' second option, and the Trek guys.
From the Trek guys I chose Mollema, which, I admit, isn't likely, but I rules out Nibali due to injury, Ciccone because he's more likely for a KOM imo and then I thought, okay, Mollema is a steady guy, often underestimated as well.

Really, nothing's holding you back to make your own threads, open your own polls. I don't think it's forbidden to make two polls for one race. You just can't change the options after you've opened a poll.
I'm actually fed up with making polls and threads and people are only complaining. If I make a thread that's sometimes for my own entertainment, like with Algarve, yes, but usually I do it because there isn't one yet and I would like to have a place to discuss the race. I can totally understand if you disagree with what I say or how I estimate a rider, but I'm disappointed if I put in some work and then people just critisize it all the time like I only did this to annoy them and like I'm holding them back to do it themselves and differently.

 

[spalco]

It's ok, Blue Roads, a "Vino" option is just sort of traditional in this forum, long looong after it had stopped being even remotely reasonable (or arguably funny). He's never even been a particularly likable person.

Nibali - eh - guess he would have deserved at least being considered based on who he is, but for what it's worth, with the exception of Mollema, everyone in your poll has better betting odds to win the Giro than Nibali (as well as several others not in the poll who also will not win the race).

 

[BlueRoads]

It's ok, Blue Roads, a "Vino" option is just sort of traditional in this forum, long looong after it had stopped being even remotely reasonable (or arguably funny). He's never even been a particularly likable person.

Nibali - eh - guess he would have deserved at least being considered based on who he is, but for what it's worth, with the exception of Mollema, everyone in your poll has better betting odds to win the Giro than Nibali (as well as several others not in the poll who also will not win the race).

I will remember to put in Vino next time.

 

[spalco]

I will remember to put in Vino next time.

No don't, I think if the joke has ever been funny it's played out completely.

 

[Berflamand]

Okay, maybe it's because I'm a bit oversensitive at the moment, but I'm starting to get offended, and I don't mean it as a joke this time.
If you make a poll, you can only choose ten options. No, I'm not an Evenepoel-fan, no, I didn't slight Nibali by purpose but because he wasn't even safely on the startlist by then and has a fractured wrist, and I didn't try to be especially left-wing with my picks for this but tried to fit in those options as good as I could which I thought would be picked the most or are most reasonable.
I would have liked to include Martinez, but there was no spot left.
Bernal and Yates are already in the title, as you can see. I thought that if I set up a simple poll, everybody would pick Yates, so I excluded these two - to me - super-favourites. Yates because he looked superior lately, Bernal because he kind of recently won the Tour.
I chose Evenepoel because many people believe in him.
Almeida because he's DQS's co-leader and they bring a string GC team which to me shows they are very serious about this.
Didn't choose Masnada because I didn't think there could be any discussion that he's a domestique.
Chose Vlasov because Astana believe he can win.
Chose Landa because a lot of people believe in him.
Chose Buchmann because personally I believe he's good for a podium, he got into crosswinds at UAE and left behind on the descent lately, so I still believe in him, but I may be biased here, okay.
Carthy has his weaknesses, but he's an attacking rider and on his day he can be the strongest climber. There's a lot of climbing.
Dan Martin is a guy I ususally underestimate and don't rate so highly, he usually surprises me, so I thought I wouldn't make that mistake this time.
Bardet and Hindley as one option as I don't think their chances are toooo high, and I didn't have many spots left. They are co-leaders. Had them as two options first, but then decided I couldn't leave out Sivakov who after all is Ineos' second option, and the Trek guys.
From the Trek guys I chose Mollema, which, I admit, isn't likely, but I rules out Nibali due to injury, Ciccone because he's more likely for a KOM imo and then I thought, okay, Mollema is a steady guy, often underestimated as well.

Really, nothing's holding you back to make your own threads, open your own polls. I don't think it's forbidden to make two polls for one race. You just can't change the options after you've opened a poll.
I'm actually fed up with making polls and threads and people are only complaining. If I make a thread that's sometimes for my own entertainment, like with Algarve, yes, but usually I do it because there isn't one yet and I would like to have a place to discuss the race. I can totally understand if you disagree with what I say or how I estimate a rider, but I'm disappointed if I put in some work and then people just critisize it all the time like I only did this to annoy them and like I'm holding them back to do it themselves and differently.

Please don't stop making threads or polls or posts. People (especially on a forum) will always find something to complain but I'm pretty sure the majority appreciates you (and all other regular posters for that matter) for putting in the work to create threads and start a discussion.

Like me you are a relatively new member but unlike me you are a very regular poster as I am more of a lurker. However I've always enjoyed reading your threads, posts and insights as I feel they are usually well thought-out, nuanced and non biased (well except for Alvarito).

The forum needs people like you so that the lurkers like me always find new threads and discussions to follow.

I guess what I want to say: keep doing what you're doing and try to rise above the criticism.

 

[RedheadDane]

I will remember to put in Vino next time.

Wait until one of the twins start in a major race.

 

[Lui98]

Okay, maybe it's because I'm a bit oversensitive at the moment, but I'm starting to get offended, and I don't mean it as a joke this time.
If you make a poll, you can only choose ten options. No, I'm not an Evenepoel-fan, no, I didn't slight Nibali by purpose but because he wasn't even safely on the startlist by then and has a fractured wrist, and I didn't try to be especially left-wing with my picks for this but tried to fit in those options as good as I could which I thought would be picked the most or are most reasonable.
I would have liked to include Martinez, but there was no spot left.
Bernal and Yates are already in the title, as you can see. I thought that if I set up a simple poll, everybody would pick Yates, so I excluded these two - to me - super-favourites. Yates because he looked superior lately, Bernal because he kind of recently won the Tour.
I chose Evenepoel because many people believe in him.
Almeida because he's DQS's co-leader and they bring a string GC team which to me shows they are very serious about this.
Didn't choose Masnada because I didn't think there could be any discussion that he's a domestique.
Chose Vlasov because Astana believe he can win.
Chose Landa because a lot of people believe in him.
Chose Buchmann because personally I believe he's good for a podium, he got into crosswinds at UAE and left behind on the descent lately, so I still believe in him, but I may be biased here, okay.
Carthy has his weaknesses, but he's an attacking rider and on his day he can be the strongest climber. There's a lot of climbing.
Dan Martin is a guy I ususally underestimate and don't rate so highly, he usually surprises me, so I thought I wouldn't make that mistake this time.
Bardet and Hindley as one option as I don't think their chances are toooo high, and I didn't have many spots left. They are co-leaders. Had them as two options first, but then decided I couldn't leave out Sivakov who after all is Ineos' second option, and the Trek guys.
From the Trek guys I chose Mollema, which, I admit, isn't likely, but I rules out Nibali due to injury, Ciccone because he's more likely for a KOM imo and then I thought, okay, Mollema is a steady guy, often underestimated as well.

Really, nothing's holding you back to make your own threads, open your own polls. I don't think it's forbidden to make two polls for one race. You just can't change the options after you've opened a poll.
I'm actually fed up with making polls and threads and people are only complaining. If I make a thread that's sometimes for my own entertainment, like with Algarve, yes, but usually I do it because there isn't one yet and I would like to have a place to discuss the race. I can totally understand if you disagree with what I say or how I estimate a rider, but I'm disappointed if I put in some work and then people just critisize it all the time like I only did this to annoy them and like I'm holding them back to do it themselves and differently.

I said that I would have liked Nibali in the poll and I would have voted for him if he was there as a joke , please don't take that message seriously.

Help me understand the Masnada comments. So he got 9th in the Giro last year, in what we all would have to say was a weakened field. Almeida got 4th. He took a nice 6th in Tirreno. He got 3rd by a second in Romandie this year, it's a nice result.

He's a really good rider. I like him. But people really think he's going to lead over Almeida and Evenepoel? Seriously?

I don't get it. Help me out.

I think that @maestro is also joking because he talked also in other topics (Clinic) about the improvement in performances of the riders that go to Quickstep (specificaly about the time trial ability of Masnada).

 

[BlueRoads]

Okay, thanks for the nice comments, I guess I needed that. I can now calm down.
Now there's another poll.

 

[Potomac]

Help me understand the Masnada comments. So he got 9th in the Giro last year, in what we all would have to say was a weakened field. Almeida got 4th. He took a nice 6th in Tirreno. He got 3rd by a second in Romandie this year, it's a nice result.

He's a really good rider. I like him. But people really think he's going to lead over Almeida and Evenepoel? Seriously?

I don't get it. Help me out.

The Eurosport presenter was gushing about Masnada towards the end of Romandie and was excited about watching him the Giro. Hopefully Masnada will have had drunk some pineapple juice when the presenter finally gets to meet him.

 

[spalco]

I just had a 'drunk on friday evening' thought: how cool would it be if after remco as the first belgian since forever wins the giro, some french guy wins the tour, and the vuelta maybe a german or something, maybe a swiss or a dane? All in 2021 after the *** year everyone had.

 

[Bonimenier]

I just had a 'drunk on friday evening' thought: how cool would it be if after remco as the first belgian since forever wins the giro, some french guy wins the tour, and the vuelta maybe a german or something, maybe a swiss or a dane? All in 2021 after the *** year everyone had.

A French guy winning the Tour this year? That's a good one.

 

[Sciatic]

I just had a 'drunk on friday evening' thought: how cool would it be if after remco as the first belgian since forever wins the giro, some french guy wins the tour, and the vuelta maybe a german or something, maybe a swiss or a dane? All in 2021 after the *** year everyone had.

Hmm, I think I’ll have some of whatever you’re drinking! Though I suppose I can wait till it’s actually evening

 

[spalco]

A French guy winning the Tour this year? That's a good one.

Gaudu maybe or sivakov if he counts. Freakier things have happened.

 

[RedheadDane]

I just love the fact that - apart from the few days when De Marchi was in pink - the Pink Jersey top-3, and the White Jersey top-3 have literally been identical throughout the race.

 

[Gigs_98]

Just read the cable car accident in Italy today took place on the Mottarone, a mountain the giro will climb on stage 19. That will make for a very depressed mood on that stage. Such a horrible story.