Grand Tour Wild Cards - 2011 Thread

[Libertine Seguros]

It's all about ostracizing the French. Sure, the Giro and Vuelta seem much more Italian and Spanish than the Tour is French. I agree that it is partially because of the "international circus" (which they want) but also because the Giro and Vuelta have plenty of Italians and Spanish fighting it out in the top 10, which the French don't have. It's not as if the French have had far fewer teams in the Tour than than the Italians and Spanish have had in the Giro and Vuelta in recent years. In the last 4 years the Tour and Vuelta have had 21 national teams and the Giro 19. Of course the Giro number would jump up to 22 if you include non-Italian teams with a predominately Italian membership.(Savio's teams, Barloworld).

The problem would be solved of course if they developed more top riders. GC guys would be nice but it doesn't even have to be that. Top sprinters, top TT guys, top classic guys - some riders who could consistently podium in races that aren't just part of the French Cup.

3 of the 4 I don't have a problem with and I would actually agree with. All 4, I do, particularly when you leave out a team with a potential winner and a former champ who could still possibly vie for the podium.

The problem is, it's a delicate balancing act. The ASO want to preserve their race's position as the most important race in the world bar none, but they also want to preserve some of its provincial identity and support their country's racing - got to give something back to the country that continues to support and create their legacy. Remember that the Tour is reliant on the support of local councils and of sponsors, and all of those local councils will be French, and many of those sponsors will be French, and some of them will not trade outside of France or Francophone Europe. There is an obligation to keep those sponsors happy as well as the big ones.

Another thing is that, possibly because of the characteristics you've outlined above, there are precious few French riders at the top level outside of the French teams, whereas the Italian/Spanish flavour of the Giro/Vuelta can be added to by riders from external teams competing for the race (eg Sastre at CSC, Tondó at Cervélo and Rodríguez at Katyusha having helped enliven the Vuelta, then Pinotti at HTC, Pozzato at Katyusha at the Giro). Another thing that hurts them is that the smaller Spanish and Italian teams ride all year around the Giro or Vuelta, so arrive there at peak form, whereas some teams do not. The French teams similarly base their season around the Tour, but everybody who's at the Tour bases their season around it so that it's harder for the French teams to stamp their identity on the race even before you take into account the gulf in quality between the rosters of Androni and Geox and those of Saur and Cofidis.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

On the bright side. Now Cadel Evans, Robert Gesink and TGBM have more room to shine.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

On the bright side. Now Cadel Evans, Robert Gesink and TGBM have more room to shine.

Thanks for reminding me. I must take a holiday in July. I don't want to have to wade through 1800 posts of ACF bickering with the Dutch mafia every day

edit: since I want to get away from Dutchmen hyping cyclists, where should I go on this holiday? I hear Alpe d'Huez is nice

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Thanks for reminding me. I must take a holiday in July. I don't want to have to wade through 1800 posts of ACF bickering with the Dutch mafia every day

edit: since I want to get away from Dutchmen hyping cyclists, where should I go on this holiday? I hear Alpe d'Huez is nice

Just go to Rotterdam or Amsterdam. No Dutch people there. Only surinamese, maroccan, turkish and antillian people there

 

[taiwan]

Just go to Rotterdam or Amsterdam. No Dutch people there. Only surinamese, maroccan, turkish and antillian people there

Uh oh. Going in a sketchy direction there.

 

[Aguirre]

Seems like Geox will be the Vacansoleil of 2010 and the Unibet of 2007.

and the Astana of 08. Very upset for Geox

 

[Jamsque]

--edited by mod--


Libertine, I agree with you. Prudhomme laid out in very simple terms the reason for his selections: "There were just four invitations remaining ... so we clearly preferred national (French) teams. Four of the five French second division teams have been selected and the fifth was selected for Paris-Nice."

French race, French sponsors, French spectators, French teams. There is no denying that Geox fields a stronger GT squad than Saur, but it's not as though the Tour de France is going to be lacking in world class talent whether Sastre and Menchov are there or not.

All that said, I am a massive Sastre fan and quite like Menchov too, so although I will miss them at the Tour I am looking forward to seeing what they can do in the Giro and the Vuelta.

 

[The Hitch]

Thanks for reminding me. I must take a holiday in July. I don't want to have to wade through 1800 posts of ACF bickering with the Dutch mafia every day

edit: since I want to get away from Dutchmen hyping cyclists, where should I go on this holiday? I hear Alpe d'Huez is nice

ACF will leave the boards during the Tour at about the same stage as last year. My bet is the day after Luz Ardiden, though it could be Plateu de beille, or if we're lucky, as early as the les essarts team chrono .

On the bright side. Now Cadel Evans, Robert Gesink and TGBM have more room to shine.

Glad you also see Cadel Evans and Robert Gesink as TGBM type characters. We hype them up on the boards because they're not that good in reality.

 

[Dutchsmurf]

and the Astana of 08. Very upset for Geox

Astana at least got to ride the Giro and Vuelta. Geox so far has invites for neither. Geox already missed out on Tirreno, so how can we be sure they will get to ride the Giro?

 

[search]

and the Astana of 08. Very upset for Geox

with Gianettis past at the tour (biggest doping scandal 2008) the link to Astana 08 fits quite well.
Last year they had to invite Footon due to their ProTour-Status, didn't they? Not inviting them this year could be a late payback + revenge for their weak performance 2010.

 

[skidmark]

Yeah the Tour would be livelier with Menchov for sure, as he's a big contender.

Lol a cemetery would be livelier without Menchov, he is undoubtedly the most boring, charisma less rider in the peleton.

sorry, obviously meant 'more competitive'.

 

[maltiv]

Not inviting the second biggest favorite for the overall win...well done UCI. Just a few guys left they have to get rid of now before the AS victory is in the box!

 

[theyoungest]

Just go to Rotterdam or Amsterdam. No Dutch people there. Only surinamese, maroccan, turkish and antillian people there

Let me guess: you're from Limburg, just like that fellow with the bleached hair and the loud mouth.

 

[Moondance]

Just go to Rotterdam or Amsterdam. No Dutch people there. Only surinamese, maroccan, turkish and antillian people there

So this is why all you Limburgers vote PVV? You think Eberhard van der Laan is the only white guy in Amsterdam?

EDIT: I see Youngest has made the exact same point as me... Only he was one minute quicker. Damn!

 

[jaylew]

Dutch politics alert!

 

[Sophistic]

It's all just payback for the Riccò and Piepoli affairs in 08.

yep, plus Humanplasma - organiser Stefan Matschiner has just put out a book and is giving hints about certain riders in interviews, so there is a good chance that Menchov is gonna bring some bad PR.

 

[ak-zaaf]

Dutch politics alert!

TGBM for president!

/edit: Seriously D_T, if your internets persona is so closely linked to your actual identity you should avoid posting extremely stupid shit like that on forums.
It's quoted, it's in stone.

 

[Benotti69]

is there a chance Shack will be kicked off due to the goings on in clinicland and their team leader? and Geox get a late call up?

 

[Benotti69]

yep, plus Humanplasma - organiser Stefan Matschiner has just put out a book and is giving hints about certain riders in interviews, so there is a good chance that Menchov is gonna bring some bad PR.

well if someone gets subpoenaed to appear before a grand jury before July it wont matter about menchov....

 

[AngusW]

Initially in 2008, Astana were not invited to the Giro or the Vuelta (IIRC?). Their Giro call-up was at the last minute. Maybe Geox will be invited to these races, based on Menchov being a former champion of both, but the T-A snub is not an auspicious start.

Seeing Geox's non-invite for ASO and now RCS races brought immediately to my mind Unibet's problems in 2007 - big difference is Unibet was ProTour back then. There is an element of payback in ASO's action; the UCI denied ProTour status to Europcar and FdJeux citing lack of results - ASO has turned around and said "these French teams are good enough to be in the world's most famous bike race.'

 

[auscyclefan94]

ACF will leave the boards during the Tour at about the same stage as last year. My bet is the day after Luz Ardiden, though it could be Plateu de beille, or if we're lucky, as early as the les essarts team chrono .



Glad you also see Cadel Evans and Robert Gesink as TGBM type characters. We hype them up on the boards because they're not that good in reality.

Nope, You will have all left after the les essarts team chrono because BMC will win (yes i said win) the ttt. Evans will then crush all competition including TGBM in the pyrenees and alps and then in final tt he will complete the course with an average speed of 55km/hr and win the tdf. The only people left will be ACF Mafia. And you all will be lining up to join the religion of Cadelogy because you have seen the yellow light of god!

TGBM for president!

Just a random question (because we are talking about politics): Is there a sex party in the Netherlands?

 

[DAOTEC]

Ur right on the money

is there a chance Shack will be kicked off due to the goings on in clinicland and their team leader? and Geox get a late call up?

Yes, and is imminent! ~first runner-up in that case is 'Androni Giocattoli-Serramenti PVC Diquigiovanni-Bianchi'.

If, a second team is kicked out due to not complying with the big 4 leading up to the Tour, it will be 'Bretagne-Schuller' that gets the slot.

It is solely up to the discretion of ASO to decide, without any possibility for UCI or CAS/TAS to intervene.

 

[Moondance]

Nope, You will have all left after the les essarts team chrono because BMC will win (yes i said win) the ttt. Evans will then crush all competition including TGBM in the pyrenees and alps and then in final tt he will complete the course with an average speed of 55km/hr and win the tdf. The only people left will be ACF Mafia. And you all will be lining up to join the religion of Cadelogy because you have seen the yellow light of god!



Just a random question (because we are talking about politics): Is there a sex party in the Netherlands?

Not like you guys have... We do have a specific animal rights party which has seats in Parliament (2 out of 150) and the Senate (1 out of 75). They're pretty weird, but they've got a pretty dedicated supporter base.

As to whether there are parties which are against internet censorship, and in favor of legalizing soft drugs, and euthanasia and abortion rights (which I believe are the flagship policies of the Sex Party) I'd say we have a few of those... I happen to be a member of one.

We did also have a couple of freaks a few years back who tried to start a pedophile rights party, but for reasons I think everyone comprehends that project never really got off the ground.

 

[luckyboy]

Nope, You will have all left after the les essarts team chrono because BMC will win (yes i said win) the ttt. Evans will then crush all competition including TGBM in the pyrenees and alps and then in final tt he will complete the course with an average speed of 55km/hr and win the tdf. The only people left will be ACF Mafia. And you all will be lining up to join the religion of Cadelogy because you have seen the yellow light of god!

I could stand three weeks of this if it meant that somebody beat Golden Boy Schleck.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

So this is why all you Limburgers vote PVV? You think Eberhard van der Laan is the only white guy in Amsterdam?

EDIT: I see Youngest has made the exact same point as me... Only he was one minute quicker. Damn!

1) I don't vote Wilders. I actually despise him and his ideas, especially referring to his ideas of Dutch people of different heritage.
2) If you don't get my kind of cynical humor, please don't respond at all... Seems you guys can't recognize any of it and somehow thought I was serious. When I play so clearly a stereotypical chauvinist from Limburg this would go with that... it's so darn obvious. Why don't you guys get it?
Thank you.

Oh and lastly.
If you are so seriously posting on internet forums, you should really start to learn and recognize one thing from another (to AK-Zaaf, Moondance AND theyoungest). Get more intelligent. Please.
Although I am touched by your dislike of Wilders.
To remind you, 2/3rd of Limburg actually did NOT vote Limburg, so that's the MAJORITY of Limburg not voting for him.
Shows also the hypocracy of you 3... blaming 1 guy for racist (although I already explained I was trying to be the stereotype), yet rather, you throw all Limburgian people on the same page....
Funny Hollanders!

Don't get mad because you know I'm right.