GreenEdge: Even scummier than Pegasus

[Night Rider]

Love the "boo fkn hoo" people.

When it's a team you don't like, or from some other far off place, doing it, it's fine to stick the boot in, but when you're creating conflicts of interest before you've even started it's fine because you don't technically exist and are Australian?

I think it's more a case of shonky journalists not actually understanding the rules as they are written, and someone above actually pointing that out above. I don't think nationality comes into it.

Sky annoyed a lot of people with their recruitment policy. Leopard have done too. Pegasus annoyed people with their hype.

What makes it bad when these guys do it but okay when GreenEdge do?

Leopard didn't break any rules, some may see it as dodgy or questionable but hey business is business.

Pegasus aren't really even worth commenting on, some people that were running them down here are now using them as an excuse to run down GreenEdge.

 

[M Sport]

Love the "boo fkn hoo" people.

When it's a team you don't like, or from some other far off place, doing it, it's fine to stick the boot in, but when you're creating conflicts of interest before you've even started it's fine because you don't technically exist and are Australian?

That was me that made that comment.

For the record, I'm not Australian.
I'm also on the record here saying Pegasus shouldn't have got a license, they didn't deserve one.

My comments are always based on the merits of the case, not where the team or individual is from.

In my opinion and to the letter of the rules there is no conflict of interest, no rules have been broken. Add to that on face value this is a team so vastly different to Pegasus that they aren't even worth mentioning in the same breath. It was a sour grapes thread to start with so the Boo fkn hoo comment was a perfect fit.

 

[Nick777]

One of the people involved in this new team is someone you would want to keep an eye on - particularly where money is involved.

I would be watching the ingoings & outgoings very carefully if I had any money tied up in this venture.

 

[Willy_Voet]

Shane Bannan. Neil Stephens and Scott Sunderland. There is three names certain to be part of the new team. Three credible people with a long history involving pro-cycling.

The underlined parts do not match...Clinic material. Serious Clinic material.

 

[Boeing]

scummier than playing the Morality Police on the internet?

 

[hubbard]

scummier than playing the Morality Police on the internet?

gold. post of the day.

 

[Bailey]

Must confess, even as someone who would like to see an Australian team in the peloton, I feel for the plight of Vaughters and Garmin. Especially in light of how he was so utterly disrespected by Team Sky and Wiggins.

I hope all teams respect each other and just play fairly when it comes to contract negotiations.

Vaughters and Garmin have already lain down once to underhanded tactics (wiggins). I don't blame him for flagging, early and in no uncertain terms, that he won't be doing so again.

 

[dsut4392]

Vaughters and Garmin have already lain down once to underhanded tactics (wiggins). I don't blame him for flagging, early and in no uncertain terms, that he won't be doing so again.

I don't disagree that Wiggins did the dirty on Garmin, but Vaughters and Garmin didn't exactly lie down and take it; there was plenty of trash talk, and a nice fat cheque changed hands. Overall I think Garmin did very well out of the whole deal.

Even so, this is hardly a reasonable comparison. Sky paid Wiggo to break his Garmin contract a year early, and Wiggo as much as insinuated that if Garmin didn't let him break his contract, he wouldn't perform at races (and there were similar undertones to the Cancellara move to Leopard, though Cancellara being a swiss machine it's harder to picture him hitting the booze and riding every race like a training ride than it is Wiggo). In contrast, GreenEdge seem to be paying riders a retainer based on them performing well and earning ProTeam points with their current team and agreeing to switch to GreenEdge at the end of their contract. They haven't (yet) said they wanted to poach anyone before their contract expired.

 

[euanli]

Yeah the GreenEdge stuff is seedier than the Wiggins transfer. Lets not beat about the bush. Garmin benefit from his move from Garmin to Sky. If his Aussie boys have signed this precontract and move over to this project then there is no upside to that at all for Vaughters.

 

[BroDeal]

Yeah the GreenEdge stuff is seedier than the Wiggins transfer. Lets not beat about the bush. Garmin benefit from his move from Garmin to Sky. If his Aussie boys have signed this precontract and move over to this project then there is no upside to that at all for Vaughters.

It is not that there is no upside. There is a downside. Riders will have an incentive to ride for themselves rather than for the team. It goes far beyond the normal situation where riders may get a better contract when they leave the team if they score points. The riders will know the exact amount of money that every point is worth.

They could be in a small chase group with their team leader. Instead of giving it all then falling off the back, they decide to go easy enough that they can hang with the group, knowing that finishing with the group will be worth at least $1500.

It is a conflict of interest for one team to be paying riders on another team. What's next? Will Garmin bribe Renshaw to disrupt HTC's sprint train?

 

[euanli]

Sorry I meant to says there was a downside to the situation. I agree with your point

 

[Bailey]

Short answer. No.



GreenEdge are neither a ProTeam or a team that have lodged an application.

So boo fkn hoo if they are doing secret deals. And likewise anyone saying CA should have supported Pegasus. Pegasus was a house of cards and didn't deserve any support.

If this is the case, then I must retract what I said earlier. Vaughters and others will have difficulty sustaining any argument against what may be happening.

I still feel for Vaughters (just as I did for Bjarne Riis when he was losing most of his team). But he'll just have to suck it up if no rules have been broken technically or otherwise.

We're in a capitalistic society, and "bidness is bidness", as they say. Individuals are allowed to make contracts with other individuals. If not, where does one draw the line? We don't know that any terms in relevant parties' contracts have been breached. And if they haven't, then that's where the conversation ends. Certainly looks like no rules have been contravened here.

As the bad guy said to Indiana Jones (played by River Phoenix, I think) at the start of 'The Last Crusade': "That's just the way it goes, kid. Doesn't mean you've gotta like it."

As Vaughters well knows, in cold hard business no one is handing out Christmas cards. He may just need to suck it up like Riis did.

 

[JayZee]

It is not that there is no upside. There is a downside. Riders will have an incentive to ride for themselves rather than for the team. It goes far beyond the normal situation where riders may get a better contract when they leave the team if they score points. The riders will know the exact amount of money that every point is worth.

They could be in a small chase group with their team leader. Instead of giving it all then falling off the back, they decide to go easy enough that they can hang with the group, knowing that finishing with the group will be worth at least $1500.

It is a conflict of interest for one team to be paying riders on another team. What's next? Will Garmin bribe Renshaw to disrupt HTC's sprint train?

This is exactly the problem with what GreenEdge is allegedly doing. It is one thing to talk to a rider about a contract for the next season, but entirely different to enter into a contract for results riding for a different team. That creates a huge conflict of interest. If I was a DS and found about this, I wouldn't trust those riders to ride for the team. If they are already the rider designated as a leader for that race, then it probably doesn't matter. But if it is a domestique who is supposed to be helping the designated riders, but instead is riding for his own points, then that is a huge problem.

Part of the problem is the UCI and their new World Tour/Pro Tour rankings, which rely heavily of UCI points, which follow the rider. A team like LeopardTrek can buy themselves into being the top team without even having turned a pedal.

One does have to wonder about the UCI's treatment of Pegasus and the emergence of this GreenEdge team. Smells a little fishy.

 

[Autobus]

The timing of Pegasus' death and Green Edge's emergence seemed like quite the coincidence to me. Did anyone ever find out who the big backer of Pegasus was supposed to be? Did Jayco world persuade them to join in with the 800 pound gorilla of Australian cycling rather that compete against it?

I'm obviously not from Australia and certainly don't know its dirty little secrets, but Gerry Ryan does seem to pull a lot of its strings. The ugly scenario that seems plausible is Ryan sees Chris White building the first Australian Pro level team and is jealous/angry because he is not the power behind it. He then uses his influence to get the Pegasus sponsors to pull out and get the UCI from even granting White a Pro Continental license, leaving the door open for Shayne Bannan, on behalf of Ryan, to create his own with no competition for Australian riders or Australian dollars.

Who knows? This could be way way off, but pro cycling is getting so underhanded these days, it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

 

[needasmoke]

blah blah blah - get over it people ..

 

[Ferminal]

Pretty bad rumour about Bannan flying on twitter ATM

 

[auscyclefan94]

Pretty bad rumour about Bannan flying on twitter ATM

Yes I saw that! just told BroD!

 

[euanli]

The Italy rumour?

 

[Ferminal]

The Italy rumour?

Yeh - the European base of Cycling Australia/AIS is in Italy.

 

[Spare Tyre]

Spit it out people.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Spit it out people.

check the clinic