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If Greg is claiming he's "lost his legs" due to the vaccination then he must've been jabbed years before Covid even became a thing 
If Greg is claiming he's "lost his legs" due to the vaccination then he must've been jabbed years before Covid even became a thing
He did actually finish on the podium in De Ronde in 2021.
This is not a scientific forum, so we shouldn't go into detail, but based on the current evidence (for delta as well as for omicron) this is plain wrong. Especially for delta COVID the booster leads to a way better protection.
I had Covid, had chills, fatigue, and body inflammation for 2 to 3 days, lost my smell and taste, but was back on the bike in 5 days. Now I have 6 times more antibodies than those vaccinated. Some people do have negative consequences to the vaccine and Covid isn't that bad for the majority of people. Think about it...how many people do you know that had Covid and had no or minor symptoms? All that gets posted in the news media are those with a bad reaction. Also, most people who died WITH Covid were not healthy to begin with...something was going to take them out eventually because we all going to die someday.
So the last thing I want to do is spread COVID nonsense, but I’ve read multiple studies regarding Delta which showed the booster was far less protective than actually getting Delta. https://www.reuters.com/business/he...vaccination-during-delta-surge-us-2022-01-19/
The case is much less clear with Omicron, https://amp.dw.com/en/omicron-is-natural-immunity-better-than-a-vaccine/a-60425426
I don’t think we know what strain GVA had, but timing-wise my statement to which you're reacting assumed Delta. Could be wrong of course. I realize the science is early here, particularly with regard to Omicron, and I am in no way saying anyone should not get boosted. Certainly I am boosted, as are my wife and kids and none of us has gotten it so far. Clearly, even with Omicron, outcomes if one does get it are far better for those vaxxed + boosted compared to just vaxxed.
But with Omicron, breakthrough infections are incredibly common. I would not be concerned about GVA's status if I were riding or hanging out with him. The efficacy against transmission of vaxxed + boosted is not clear to me, and appears similar at this point to vaxxed + infected, but again I’m HAPPY to learn more or be corrected, if someone has published, peer reviewed studies which show otherwise.
And yes, I probably should not be having a science discussion here, so sorry for that but I thought it worth clarifying my statement. Thanks.
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Thanks for the links and the detailed answer. From what I've read there are a lot of conflicting results when it comes to immunization by infection vs. immunization by booster, so it's not really clear yet. But anyway, we shouldn't get completely off-topic.
In the end, I think we just talked about different things. You compared protection by infection vs. protection by booster, while I was referring to being boostered vs. not being immunized at all. Basically I overlooked that GVA also got infected recently. Of course, then your perspective makes more sense than mine.
What Greg regretted most about his vaccinations, is that they occurred right in between races like the Dauphiné, the nationals and the Tour. He was going deep in races and on training days, so couldn't take any time to let his body adapt or even recover. And that's why all of a sudden he had the biggest drop in level of his entire carreer. He wasn't bad at all during the spring campaign, did ok in the early summer races and then faded away drastically.
I hope he can prove his point the following months. Of course I don't expect him to be the dominant factor he was before, but there must be something left in the tank.
I hope he can prove his point the following months. Of course I don't expect him to be the dominant factor he was before, but there must be something left in the tank.
That's harsh, until before the first lockdown his level was fine, at the start of 2020 at Alrgarve on Malhão he was climbing better than Nibali that a couple of weeks after finished 4th in Paris-Nice. And also after the lockdown wasn't bad. It's last year that his level started to fall with a pretty anonymous spring that looks better only because he somehow managed to finish third in the Ronde despite he was suffering and hanging on for dear life on every single climb in the finale and then it totally sunk during the summer culminating with a tragic display at the Tour du Limousin.If Greg is claiming he's "lost his legs" due to the vaccination then he must've been jabbed years before Covid even became a thing
IMHO his level has clearly dropped last year, as shown in the spring, but during the summer something else clearly happened.
He's really bad at being finished. Another podium in a prestigious Flemish classic.
He's so finished he's finished at being finished.
Inevitable, but it's still sad. Thanks for the awesome memories, pal!
Even though in these last seasons the frequency dropped, I'll sincerely miss looking for you in the live images. For so many years you were around so very often, in all kinds of races, and you brought home a nice bunch of victories. Rio 2016 was a highlight in my life. Golden Greg forever!
Really sad he crashed out of de Ronde in 2016 as he was a massive beast in those years. Definitely Top Tier at his peak.
So happy for him. His level these past years was still too good to not grab any win along the way. Very glad he gets the sweet taste of victory once more in his last months. Who knows what's still lying ahead?
Rode his last professional race today. What do we make of his career?
He arrived at the scene pretty strong in 2008 winning a stage and the points classification in the Vuelta at 23 as well as getting 3rd in E3 and 8th in RVV. But unfortunately, as the story goes, he got hampered in his growth when the (3 year older) Gilbert joined the same squad in 2009. Over the next 2 years Gilbert won 2 monuments and featured strongly in several more. Meanwhile GVA didn't win a single race.
Then at BMC the pattern seemed set on repeating. In 2011 GVA had won his first classic (Paris-Tours) and got a few minor placings but Gilbert was arriving at BMC after a career-defining season. This time around though Gilbert was the one struggling to win races, winning only 1 race outside of Spain in two seasons leaving an opportunity for GVA to demand Cobbles leadership where he could get clobbered by Cancellara and Sagan along with other hopefuls.
By the end of 2015 the then 30 year old had had a solid career but there were doubts about him having that extra bit of power necesary to actually win these races. But in 2016 his fortunes changed as he won the Olympic Road Race and Tirreno-Adriatico through great racing but also considerable luck.
(To be fair he also crashed out for RVV and PR after looking like a real contender).
More importantly though, possibly for his own mental state as well, was that he defeated Sagan four(!) times in WT races (Omloop, Stage TA, Stage TDF, GP Montréal). He no longer looked 2nd tier and in 2017 he absolutely crushed the spring season winning GW, E3 and PR as well as being in a winning position for RVV.
In just two years GVA went from 1 classic victory to having won an Olympic title, a monument and 6 classics.
Alas this was to be his peak. In 2018-2019 he was still good (winning GP Montréal and wearing the maillot jaune) but he was not quite good enough to beat the Wolfpack. Notable though that he managed that 2019 season on CCC Team which performed quite awful otherwise.
After COVID unfortunately he still managed to grab a podium in RVV through experience and class but no longer really featured for the win. In this sense his final seasons mirrored Sagan (join a French squad and proceed to lose watts).
So in the end GVA looked like a good prospect in 2008 but performed at the level of an outsider throughout most of his career aside from the 2016-2017 seasons. As a classics specialist I would therefore tend to place him around the level of guys like Kristoff and Terpstra. Notable in their generation but not the absolute best.
What do you think? Could he have made more of his career? I'd argue that the era in which he raced didn't allow for much more for a rider of his caliber. To beat the Steppers you often needed incredible form (Cancellara, Sagan at times) or to join them (Gilbert). The latter option though didn't seem to have suited his character well as you probably needed to be quite cutt-throat to make sure you got in winning breaks among a squad of similarly talented people.
He did become an Olympic Champion though which will forever etch him into history. Perhaps he can be 'best of the rest' after Boonen, Cancellara, Gilbert and Sagan.
Interestingly enough his CQ points from 2015-2023 correlate quite strongly with those scored by his buddy Oliver Naesen (~.72).
He arrived at the scene pretty strong in 2008 winning a stage and the points classification in the Vuelta at 23 as well as getting 3rd in E3 and 8th in RVV. But unfortunately, as the story goes, he got hampered in his growth when the (3 year older) Gilbert joined the same squad in 2009. Over the next 2 years Gilbert won 2 monuments and featured strongly in several more. Meanwhile GVA didn't win a single race.
Then at BMC the pattern seemed set on repeating. In 2011 GVA had won his first classic (Paris-Tours) and got a few minor placings but Gilbert was arriving at BMC after a career-defining season. This time around though Gilbert was the one struggling to win races, winning only 1 race outside of Spain in two seasons leaving an opportunity for GVA to demand Cobbles leadership where he could get clobbered by Cancellara and Sagan along with other hopefuls.
By the end of 2015 the then 30 year old had had a solid career but there were doubts about him having that extra bit of power necesary to actually win these races. But in 2016 his fortunes changed as he won the Olympic Road Race and Tirreno-Adriatico through great racing but also considerable luck.
(To be fair he also crashed out for RVV and PR after looking like a real contender).
More importantly though, possibly for his own mental state as well, was that he defeated Sagan four(!) times in WT races (Omloop, Stage TA, Stage TDF, GP Montréal). He no longer looked 2nd tier and in 2017 he absolutely crushed the spring season winning GW, E3 and PR as well as being in a winning position for RVV.
In just two years GVA went from 1 classic victory to having won an Olympic title, a monument and 6 classics.
Alas this was to be his peak. In 2018-2019 he was still good (winning GP Montréal and wearing the maillot jaune) but he was not quite good enough to beat the Wolfpack. Notable though that he managed that 2019 season on CCC Team which performed quite awful otherwise.
After COVID unfortunately he still managed to grab a podium in RVV through experience and class but no longer really featured for the win. In this sense his final seasons mirrored Sagan (join a French squad and proceed to lose watts).
So in the end GVA looked like a good prospect in 2008 but performed at the level of an outsider throughout most of his career aside from the 2016-2017 seasons. As a classics specialist I would therefore tend to place him around the level of guys like Kristoff and Terpstra. Notable in their generation but not the absolute best.
What do you think? Could he have made more of his career? I'd argue that the era in which he raced didn't allow for much more for a rider of his caliber. To beat the Steppers you often needed incredible form (Cancellara, Sagan at times) or to join them (Gilbert). The latter option though didn't seem to have suited his character well as you probably needed to be quite cutt-throat to make sure you got in winning breaks among a squad of similarly talented people.
He did become an Olympic Champion though which will forever etch him into history. Perhaps he can be 'best of the rest' after Boonen, Cancellara, Gilbert and Sagan.
Interestingly enough his CQ points from 2015-2023 correlate quite strongly with those scored by his buddy Oliver Naesen (~.72).
I think he got out of his career what he could. He won an Olympic title, a monument, a Tour stage and wore yellow twice, a points jersey in the Vuelta, Tirreno and numerous other "smaller" races like E3, Omloop, Gent-Wevelgem and Paris-Tours.
In the end he's happy with what he achieved and for a guy with his qualities I think he got the maximum out of it. He never won the Ronde which is probably his biggest regret but he'll forever be Golden Greg.
He will be immortal forever, he will be the biggest thing from Grembergen for years or perhaps centuries to come. When he eventually dies the entire nation will learn about it, statues will be build and races will be held in his memory.
He rode his ass in the history books. He's achieved what many dream of...immortality.
In the end he's happy with what he achieved and for a guy with his qualities I think he got the maximum out of it. He never won the Ronde which is probably his biggest regret but he'll forever be Golden Greg.
He will be immortal forever, he will be the biggest thing from Grembergen for years or perhaps centuries to come. When he eventually dies the entire nation will learn about it, statues will be build and races will be held in his memory.
He rode his ass in the history books. He's achieved what many dream of...immortality.
I was a big fan, he was a tough tough dude. Biggest tragedy of his career for me is obviously getting taken out at RVV when he was in with a chance to win it. No guarantee he would have won but to be denied the chance in such a stupid way was very sad to see; he was on fire and I personally think he could have done it. Great career, chapeau Greg!
Don't forget he also won Omloop that year. Absolutely incredible cobbled season.
And weirdly, one of the funnier moments I remember was after his P-R win when someone (Ochowicz?) was making a long-winded speech, and poor Greg was just standing there with the trophy...
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