Groenewegen crash ban

[Chris Gadsden]

Pretty sure every country has laws against reckless endangerment leading to serious injuries. He's lucky he's getting a cyclists' punishment. In the Netherlands there have been criminal cases against football player causing a career ending injury.

In a similar vein, are there actually official rules against riding another rider off a cliff? Cause if there's not someone should really get on that.

His penalty is much more than 9 months. As with Jackobsen, he will likely never recover professionally. You may want to pursue him criminally. I doubt Dylan would even fight you on that.

I just sit back in wonder at the idea that cycling... and life in general can never be sanitized to the approval of some.

Maybe we eliminate sprint finishes in pro cycling, period. Also, eliminate descents... because we don’t want the crazies to ride others off a cliff, now do we?

Dylan made a gigantic mistake which resulted in nearly killing a colleague. He’s paying for it in ways you don’t seem to acknowledge, which is unfortunate.

 

[Koronin]

This is what Edu Prades (Movistar's rider involved in that crash and missed two months of the season) tweeted about it:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1327279271690252288

View: https://twitter.com/eduprades/status/1327279271690252288

 

[Red Rick]

Dylan made a gigantic mistake which resulted in nearly killing a colleague. He’s paying for it in ways you don’t seem to acknowledge, which is unfortunate.

I acknowledge that he probably feels bad about it himself. I just think that shouldn't absolve anyone totally of punishment.

 

[houtdffan]

the cheating was more direct than doping, and had far more disasterous consequences. Nearly ended with a fatality.

Should have been a 4 year ban at a minimum, if not 6 years.

9 months is highly insufficient for cheating that nearly kills an opponent

 

[Zoef-Lightning]

the cheating was more direct than doping, and had far more disasterous consequences. Nearly ended with a fatality.

Should have been a 4 year ban at a minimum, if not 6 years.

9 months is highly insufficient for cheating that nearly kills an opponent

I agree with your arguments. But not with the exaggerated demand for the penalty. I agree 9 months (in fact 3 months, from februari to may) is a joke for such a misdeed. A one season ban seems better.
And important. The organisation in Poland should be sanctioned, as the UCI should be. I would like to see that the UCI installs a automatically ban (for a month for example) when a rider is disqualified. The few weeks after the terrible incident, sprinters were careful. But later, we's seen the same dangerous behavior from different riders : Sagan, Ackermann, Bennett, Philipsen and a few more.

 

[BlueRoads]

I agree with your arguments. But not with the exaggerated demand for the penalty. I agree 9 months (in fact 3 months, from februari to may) is a joke for such a misdeed. A one season ban seems better.
And important. The organisation in Poland should be sanctioned, as the UCI should be. I would like to see that the UCI installs a automatically ban (for a month for example) when a rider is disqualified. The few weeks after the terrible incident, sprinters were careful. But later, we's seen the same dangerous behavior from different riders : Sagan, Ackermann, Bennett, Philipsen and a few more.

But doesn't that show how common dangerous moves from sprinters are? (I think Groenewegen's move was another level, but) it would not be fair in my opinion to punish him in order to set a new precedence. Better make very clear rules what are the consequences for which behaviour and then punish the riders accordingly.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

I agree with your arguments. But not with the exaggerated demand for the penalty. I agree 9 months (in fact 3 months, from februari to may) is a joke for such a misdeed. A one season ban seems better.
And important. The organisation in Poland should be sanctioned, as the UCI should be. I would like to see that the UCI installs a automatically ban (for a month for example) when a rider is disqualified. The few weeks after the terrible incident, sprinters were careful. But later, we's seen the same dangerous behavior from different riders : Sagan, Ackermann, Bennett, Philipsen and a few more.

None of those riders engaged in the same dangerous behaviour as Groenewegen. Using the shoulder to protect your line, jumping into a gap that isn’t there etc may be dangerous, may be too aggressive, may be against the rules but they are absolutely not the same as putting an opponent into the barriers at 75kmh

 

[RedheadDane]

I agree 9 months (in fact 3 months, from februari to may) is a joke for such a misdeed.

It is 9 months; starting from August 5th. Remember that he was immediately suspended by the team.

 

[thiscocks]

Why not?
If you drive under the influence and the police stops you, you get a fine and possibly a license suspension.
If you drive under the influence and you kill somebody, you will likely go to jail.

Edit: of course the race organizers should be held accountable for the incident, but this has nothing to do with Groenewegen's punishment.

Because driving while intoxicated in public is totally different to moving across the road when riding a bike in a professional sport?

The ban is utterly ludicrous. If the barriers werent of that design or the road was wider then its very likely he would have suffered no injury. A case of the governing body covering them selfes and creating a scapegoat in the name of DG.

There have been plenty of other similar actions in sprints even this year which have resulted in nothing more than a slap on the wrist.

 

[Jagartrott]

If the barriers werent of that design or the road was wider then its very likely he would have suffered no injury. A case of the governing body covering them selfes and creating a scapegoat in the name of DG.

"If the car I crashed into had better airbags, the people in the car wouldn't have been hurt as much."

Sure. Doesn't mean you should not be punished.
And whatever Groenewegen feels - I'm sure there are plenty of people in jail that feel bad about what they did. It shows they're human. But again, that doesn't mean that shouldn't be in jail, only that their sentence gets reduced. I think all in all, nine months, of which perhaps 2-3 are 'proper' suspension (the rest was injury time and off season) is lenient.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

There have been plenty of other similar actions in sprints even this year which have resulted in nothing more than a slap on the wrist.

No there haven‘t.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

It is 9 months; starting from August 5th. Remember that he was immediately suspended by the team.

That's what he's saying.
He was injured, depressed and now the season is over. Even without a suspension he wasn't going to ride this year. That means the real punishment is only feb-may, the remaining months of the suspension when he could otherwise race.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Because driving while intoxicated in public is totally different to moving across the road when riding a bike in a professional sport?

It is different, but that doesn't matter. In both cases you do something against the rules. Both cases can sometimes have disastrous results for others.

It was a conscious move by Groenewegen. Just like it is a conscious decision to start drinking when you know you are driving. In both cases you know you are wrong, and you know there can be accidents.

So if you kill someone while driving drunk, you don't get away with a slap on the wrist. Why should Groenewegen? Imagine how Jakobsen would feel, or his wife, his parents... If he never gets to race at that level again, and he sees Groenewegen back on the bike in february, while his suspension didn't actually punish him.

The ban is utterly ludicrous. If the barriers werent of that design or the road was wider then its very likely he would have suffered no injury.

The injury would likely have been less severe. Likely not certain. It's also possible he would have hit his head against the concrete and died. He willingy endangered another person. Argueing the outcome might have been different if others had done their job is not your case (Groenewegen's case) to make. I agree UCI and TdP should also be held accountable, but that doesn't change what Groenewegen did. Knowingly.

 

[Netserk]

I can see that the difference between criminal law and sport rules doesn't matter. Everything is the same, at least as far as it matters.

 

[houtdffan]

I agree with your arguments. But not with the exaggerated demand for the penalty. I agree 9 months (in fact 3 months, from februari to may) is a joke for such a misdeed. A one season ban seems better.
And important. The organisation in Poland should be sanctioned, as the UCI should be. I would like to see that the UCI installs a automatically ban (for a month for example) when a rider is disqualified. The few weeks after the terrible incident, sprinters were careful. But later, we's seen the same dangerous behavior from different riders : Sagan, Ackermann, Bennett, Philipsen and a few more.

Here is why I want the very severe penalty.

Intentionally wrecking your opponent fundamentally alters the sport. Makes it more like NASCAR or even Roman chariott racing. Much like a motor fundamentally alters the sport.

Cheating that fundamentally alters the sport itself deserves the most severe punishments, IMO

 

[Red Rick]

I can see that the difference between criminal law and sport rules doesn't matter. Everything is the same, at least as far as it matters.

In NL, there has been a conviction of battery for a sports injury before.

Also I don't see why it shouldn't be when it's a big violation of the rule in said sports

 

[King Boonen]

I'm sure those of us who can remember the horrible suspense we used to feel when Abdoujaparov launched a sprint don't want that to return.

I can see that the difference between criminal law and sport rules doesn't matter. Everything is the same, at least as far as it matters.

Groenewegen is going to be in jail for these 9 months?

 

[RedheadDane]

That's what he's saying.
He was injured, depressed and now the season is over. Even without a suspension he wasn't going to ride this year. That means the real punishment is only feb-may, the remaining months of the suspension when he could otherwise race.

Buttom line is, he didn't race.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I can see that the difference between criminal law and sport rules doesn't matter. Everything is the same, at least as far as it matters.

Oh, so UCI has sent him to jail? Sorry, i must have missed that info.

 

[Berflamand]

I can see that the difference between criminal law and sport rules doesn't matter. Everything is the same, at least as far as it matters.

That is not really what is being said. Comparisons are (in my opinion rightly) being made between the criminal system and the sports system. Obviously there are differences though. As Logic pointed out, the governing sports bodies can't impose criminal sanctions like jailtime on athletes. They can however impose suspensions and other sanctions. In doing so they can use the same reasoning as judges in the criminal system since in both cases rules were broken which led to serious consequences.

I'm not saying Groenewegen should face criminal charges (I would not go that far in this case) but As Red Rick pointed out, sometimes violations of sports rules are even severe enough to also be considered as a criminal act and be prosecuted before a criminal judge. That can be the case with doping violations but it could also be battery (be it voluntarily or involuntarily).

 

[King Boonen]

This got Duncan Ferguson a 3 month prison sentence (third offence):

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOk8mZhX0Jk

 

[PeterB]

No there haven‘t.

Truth is there indeed were quite similar actions even this year but riders either backed off earlier or had more luck staying upright. And just for the record, even Groenewegen himself was a victim of almost identical action from Debusschere back in 2015.

I do not say this means his punishment should be less harsh, but wanted to make this clear that riders really do commit similar actions without such dramatic consequences and they are punished very mildly if at all.