Hamilton/Hincapie statements - what effect on cycling sport.

[LukeSchmid]

And herein lies the misconception about Livestrong's impact on the global cancer community.

If the funds dry up, there are other charities to donate to.

It's already a foregone conclusion that "cancer awareness" is basically vaporware to sell a brand at Livestrong. Once that the brand (Armstrong himself) has been proven to be putrid, that money isn't going to suddenly dry up. It's just going to go somewhere else because unfortunately there will not be, in the foreseeable future, a drying up of new cancer diagnoses.

Too much of Livestrong has been wrapped up in the Armstrong persona as opposed to the disease itself. This is what keeps people tethered to the chain.

Livestrong isn't crucial to the overall fight against cancer. Only the groupies feel this way. Their obsession should be about the mission statement, not the cult of personality of it's figurehead, which happens to be Livestrong's fundamental flaw.

I agree with the description of Livestrong, it is obviously about the Armstrong image. I however think some of the money may dry up, certainly not all of it or even most of it, but there probably will be some who do not donate to other charities if Livestrong falls over.

 

[Special_oz_ed]

LA - a dope(r)

Was a little bit of a fanboy for a short while. I don't know LA personally, but I don't think he'd be a nice guy. All that aside, I'm extremely disappointed by anyone who dopes, whether it's LA or Contador or ... In Australia, Euro Tours often finish 1-1:30am in the morning. It's a cost to watch them. 3 weeks losing sleep isn't fun. To know that that time was wasted watching cheats win makes me angry. And then there's the few clean riders that lose out because they chose not to cheat. Personally, if a rider gets busted conclusively at any stage in their career or in retirement, they should have to pay back the sponsors the money invested in them, any public money, prize money, anything else they received. They should be made to apologise publicly. It probably won't stop doping, but at least the public won't be duped any more. I'm sick of dopers. If you're not good enough to win a stage or to be a GC contender come to grips with it instead of resorting to doping.

 

[Benotti69]

That's a good point. I can see common people walking away from this saying "no more athlete sponsored 'charities' for me, I'm giving my money to the Humane Society from now on." Or they aren't going to donate much at all.

As to cycling, as has been discussed on here numerous times, it's riders like Bassons, Delion, etc. who were adamantly clean, and had a life of adulation, glory and wealth taken away from them.

I never got the idea of donating to celebrity/Famous athlete charities.

I have said it before, but the time is right for the riders to take the sport back and demand better testing, longer bans, no banned dopers allowed back into the sport as DS or on Federations.

 

[Benotti69]

Was a little bit of a fanboy for a short while. I don't know LA personally, but I don't think he'd be a nice guy. All that aside, I'm extremely disappointed by anyone who dopes, whether it's LA or Contador or ... In Australia, Euro Tours often finish 1-1:30am in the morning. It's a cost to watch them. 3 weeks losing sleep isn't fun. To know that that time was wasted watching cheats win makes me angry. And then there's the few clean riders that lose out because they chose not to cheat. Personally, if a rider gets busted conclusively at any stage in their career or in retirement, they should have to pay back the sponsors the money invested in them, any public money, prize money, anything else they received. They should be made to apologise publicly. It probably won't stop doping, but at least the public won't be duped any more. I'm sick of dopers. If you're not good enough to win a stage or to be a GC contender come to grips with it instead of resorting to doping.

i agree with the bolded bit unless they name their dealer, network and other dopers.

 

[jmax22]

USA Cycling? You do know that USA Cycling is run by Lance's entourage (Thom Weisel and Steve Johnson). Do you really think either one of those 2 assclowns would try to go after Lance?

Johnson is on recrod many times saying how cycling has grown in the U.S. because of Lance. Do the math... growth in cycling means more $ for USAC. There is no way on Earth Johnson or USAC would even think about contributing to the fight against doping because all of its stars - Floyd, Lance, Tyler, Hincapie, etc.... would disappear and the well would dry up. Ever notice that despite a steady slow drip of high profile dopers being caught, Johnson has never once made a statement or remarked about it publicly? Forget condeming these cheaters like any honest leader would if in a similar position of power...No idea of wether or not he's been questioned in this case, but you can assume that guys like Ochowicz, Weisel, Johnson, etc... know a little something.

 

[La Pandera]

Most in the US don't care. Most hardcore sports fans don'tcare.A few cycling fans do care,mostlypeople in the clinic and other cycling forums.

John Q. public might care a little.I doubt that they would change their spending habits about any products Lance endorses though

Watch eBay and craigslist for an increase in Trek Madones and US Postal/Discovery Treks in addition to folks unloading all their kit purchases influenced by their tainted hero.

Here is the start:
http://classifieds.roadbikereview.com/showproduct.php?product=25148&cat=3

 

[Magic Spanner]

I never got the idea of donating to celebrity/Famous athlete charities.

I have said it before, but the time is right for the riders to take the sport back and demand better testing, longer bans, no banned dopers allowed back into the sport as DS or on Federations.

Couldn't agree more. Impact on cycling needs to be big. A big response comparable to the splash this is going to make. Something to make the cycling diehards, the casual fans, and the general sports fans believe in the athletic endeavor which is the basis of the sport.

All dopers banned for life, retrospectivey, from competing, managing, commentating, coaching or making a living from the sport.

Vino, Basso, Millar, Riis etc etc etc. Even Merckx whose name adorns bikes in the pro peleton. UCI needs an overhaul and those at the top need to go because they are associated with what has gone on.

Can't do this all at once? Why not have no season next year to set it up? No Grand Tours. No classics in 2012. Just the Olympic RR and worlds. Then restart in a new era.

You can pour scorn on this idea but all it would take is willpower from a select group of sponsors, riders and race organisers. It won't happen because it would mean people losing money for a year but that would be a small price to pay for a rebirth.

 

[ultimobici]

I also ride TT in the UK and what amuses me greatly is the fact that the majority of cycling fans who drool over the "great" Wiggins and won't hear a negative word said against him when all you need to do is look at his 4th place position in 2009. Wigans is nothing more than a needle junkie, like ther rest of them.

Having met him when he rode for Condor, I'd like to believe he's clean. Just because he had a great result in the Tour doesn't mean he was doped.

But what should I expect from a tester?

 

[Oldman]

Johnson is on recrod many times saying how cycling has grown in the U.S. because of Lance. Do the math... growth in cycling means more $ for USAC. There is no way on Earth Johnson or USAC would even think about contributing to the fight against doping because all of its stars - Floyd, Lance, Tyler, Hincapie, etc.... would disappear and the well would dry up. Ever notice that despite a steady slow drip of high profile dopers being caught, Johnson has never once made a statement or remarked about it publicly? Forget condeming these cheaters like any honest leader would if in a similar position of power...No idea of wether or not he's been questioned in this case, but you can assume that guys like Ochowicz, Weisel, Johnson, etc... know a little something.

Count on them getting a full colonoscophy. Johnson presided over USAC while much of this was facilitated in terms of riders directed to Pro teams. Gorski and friends (also Weisel flacks) openned the doors to the concept of amateur doping. While it is unlikely any of those administrators could be linked to procurement or provision of PEDs they most certainly suppressed internal tests indicating positives and weren't shy about defining the limits of their coaching with respect to the competition. Many under the USAC team tutelage dispaired that the pressure was always there to "look after yourself".
My vote's still on Weisel having some problem with use of funds.

 

[Benotti69]

Count on them getting a full colonoscophy. Johnson presided over USAC while much of this was facilitated in terms of riders directed to Pro teams. Gorski and friends (also Weisel flacks) openned the doors to the concept of amateur doping. While it is unlikely any of those administrators could be linked to procurement or provision of PEDs they most certainly suppressed internal tests indicating positives and weren't shy about defining the limits of their coaching with respect to the competition. Many under the USAC team tutelage dispaired that the pressure was always there to "look after yourself".
My vote's still on Weisel having some problem with use of funds.

Johnson is in Weisel/Lance's pockets. End of.

 

[shawnrohrbach]

Most in the US don't care. Most hardcore sports fans don'tcare.A few cycling fans do care,mostlypeople in the clinic and other cycling forums.

John Q. public might care a little.I doubt that they would change their spending habits about any products Lance endorses though

I am not sure I quite agree with this. Baseball attendance is way down in most markets since the drug scandals. Americans are late to respond and need the story to go viral before they react, but react they do. You are perhaps correct to assume they will not care about a doping outing, but they will care if racketeering charges are brought. As for the effect on the sport, I don't see die hard fans walking away, but the public will care very much about the outcome of criminal charges if they are serious enough. Americans have a way of feeling hurt and betrayed if they are lied to. Nixon could have pretty much walked free had he just admitted he hired burglars to break into the democratic national committee offices in Watergate. Instead he lied and covered up and that is really what got him in trouble with JQ Public. When George W. lied about, and had Secretary Powell lie about, WMDs in Iraq, his ratings went into the toilet and stayed there. The Barry Bonds story was nothing as long as it was about doping. When it was discovered he was going to trial for perjury (lying) then it went viral.

 

[jmax22]

Count on them getting a full colonoscophy. Johnson presided over USAC while much of this was facilitated in terms of riders directed to Pro teams. Gorski and friends (also Weisel flacks) openned the doors to the concept of amateur doping. While it is unlikely any of those administrators could be linked to procurement or provision of PEDs they most certainly suppressed internal tests indicating positives and weren't shy about defining the limits of their coaching with respect to the competition. Many under the USAC team tutelage dispaired that the pressure was always there to "look after yourself".
My vote's still on Weisel having some problem with use of funds.

You make a good point. Johnson has the dubious distinction of leading American cycling during its dirtiest and most corrupt period. And the reason there is no accountability for that is because the composition of the Board of Directors that oversees him. He actually just restructured the Board to include himself, plus 4 "Development Foundation" members (i.e. rich guys like Weisel), 4 "At Large Directors" (i.e.) more henchmen appointed to the board by said CEO and rich guys, then some athletes and a few people that actually represent the membership sprinkled in. The fact that the Board of Directore now includes Johnson as the CEO is pretty telling. I don't think he'll hold himself accountable for his embarrasing tenure.

http://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=6338

 

[roundabout]

I am hoping that people in Spain, Italy etc are on the phone to Novitzky seeking tips on how to crack the omerta.

 

[Irish2009]

Well it will be the usual "sure your a cyclist you know all about drugs" bs from the great unwashed. The sport needs a cleanout from the very top down. The UCI is to busy banning aero shoes than dealing with the real issues, why? because they have facilitated the cheats by accepting "donations" to cover up cheating and are as guilty as the cheats themselves for bringing the sport into disrapute. Shame on them.

 

[AussieGoddess]

I'm kind of with Alpe on this. Also, I've known for some time, that outside LA's work in the fight against cancer, he's not a high quality guy. But because of his cancer support, giving cancer victims some hope and fight of their own, I won't be too critical of the guy.
.

Actually its BECAUSE of the whole 'Im doing it all for cancer survivors' and pretending to be some major hero for cancer that I want him brought down. Its because of the cancer charity fraud and the damage that will do to real charities that the truth is so very important.

The big problem is not going to be the impact on cycling but the possible impact made by people who are angry over what Armstrong has done with Livestrong and not only decide to stop donating to Livestrong but stop donating completely. Armstrong may well have raised money but if his fall stops people donating and stops help for cancer suffers etc then he has done enormous harm.

+1

this is a huge problem. People have given a lot of money to Livestrong, and will become disenchanted with giving to any charity. There is a flow on effect to this ....

 

[hfer07]

The big problem is not going to be the impact on cycling but the possible impact made by people who are angry over what Armstrong has done with Livestrong and not only decide to stop donating to Livestrong but stop donating completely. Armstrong may well have raised money but if his fall stops people donating and stops help for cancer suffers etc then he has done enormous harm.

It could well happen, since many of those charities have some common links- but I think It won't affect the organizations well established & separated from the "sport star" label. I see perhaps a switch & a more carefully researched choice by those affected by the Lance & LiveStrong fall.

 

[Kennf1]

Actually its BECAUSE of the whole 'Im doing it all for cancer survivors' and pretending to be some major hero for cancer that I want him brought down. Its because of the cancer charity fraud and the damage that will do to real charities that the truth is so very important.

And here is the Livestrong CEO's response to the 60 Minutes story (via twitter):

"913 people lost their battle with cancer in the last hour. We must not lose sight of "our" focus."

Tell me Doug Ullman, how exactly was "your" focus going to save those terminal patients? By making them more aware?

 

[velobabee]

armstrong = jaime dimon
please UCI = SEC what the diff.

 

[tockit]

cycling as a whole has nothing to worried about

I disagree. While I'm no Lance fan, this will hurt cycling.

Lance Armstrong, like it or not, transcends cycling. He's a household name.

His demise will touch everything in US cycling.

Why? Few American's who don't follow sports can't name many professional athletes.

Very, very few can name a professional cyclist, but many people can tell you who Lance Armstrong is.

His comeback story is almost like a fairy tale and has given cycling a tremenous boost. If Lance goes down, all that will be destroyed.

Especially with all the other cyclists detailing how bad doping is in the sport, corruption with the governing body, and how tests are easily beaten.

Sponsors will start pulling out left and right and it will be hard to find new ones for a sport with such a tainted image!

If you owned a company and were approached about sponsoring a cycling team after all of this goes down, is this the venue you'd want to use to advertise your product ???

It's will be a sad day for cycling......

 

[barn yard]

maybe you are thinking only about pro cycling, or competitive cycling... but the vast majority of cyclists have absolutely no interest in racing at all (participating or watching).

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

I disagree. While I'm no Lance fan, this will hurt cycling.

Lance Armstrong, like it or not, transcends cycling. He's a household name.

His demise will touch everything in US cycling.

Why? Few American's who don't follow sports can't name many professional athletes.

Very, very few can name a professional cyclist, but many people can tell you who Lance Armstrong is.

His comeback story is almost like a fairy tale and has given cycling a tremenous boost. If Lance goes down, all that will be destroyed.

Especially with all the other cyclists detailing how bad doping is in the sport, corruption with the governing body, and how tests are easily beaten.

Sponsors will start pulling out left and right and it will be hard to find new ones for a sport with such a tainted image!

If you owned a company and were approached about sponsoring a cycling team after all of this goes down, is this the venue you'd want to use to advertise your product ???

It's will be a sad day for cycling......

Whatever. Cycling will still be here. Armstrong is just another parasite eating at the soul of the sport. Once the sport is disinfected of him and his ilk, we have a chance to move forward. You can go cry in your Michelob Ultra if you want. I'll toast a trappist ale to the future of the sport once that thug is brought to justice.

 

[D-Queued]

I disagree. While I'm no Lance fan, this will hurt cycling.

Lance Armstrong, like it or not, transcends cycling. He's a household name.

His demise will touch everything in US cycling.

Why? Few American's who don't follow sports can't name many professional athletes.

Very, very few can name a professional cyclist, but many people can tell you who Lance Armstrong is.

His comeback story is almost like a fairy tale and has given cycling a tremenous boost. If Lance goes down, all that will be destroyed.

Especially with all the other cyclists detailing how bad doping is in the sport, corruption with the governing body, and how tests are easily beaten.

Sponsors will start pulling out left and right and it will be hard to find new ones for a sport with such a tainted image!

If you owned a company and were approached about sponsoring a cycling team after all of this goes down, is this the venue you'd want to use to advertise your product ???

It's will be a sad day for cycling......

Tiger Woods didn't kill golf, and Ahnold hasn't killed California or the Republican party. Lance did not transcend cycling any more than they transcended these things.

The masses may be ignorant, but they are not stupid. At the end of the day, Lance will be seen for what he is and cycling merely a victim of that.

Dave.