Heart Aliments- Result of Genetics, Doping or over exercise?

[RedheadDane]

I got the impression that Myngheer's issues had been solved. Or at least he thought they had...
So it wasn't so much a case of "I have heart issues, but I'll race anyway." as it was a case of "I had some heart issues, but they're gone now, so I can still race."

 

[Nick C.]

Didn't Hank Gathers play high level NCAA basketball about 20 years ago with a known heart condition before collapsing and dying in the 1990s?

 

[blackcat]

Re:

Didn't Hank Gathers play high level NCAA basketball about 20 years ago with a known heart condition before collapsing and dying in the 1990s?

great name.

was he drafted to Denver Nuggets? I think he may have been. I remember Robert Pack and Chris Jackson ask Mahmoud Abdul Rauf tourettes guy tourettes guy tourettes guy $h!it $h!t $h!t!!!!

 

[Nick C.]

Re: Re:

Didn't Hank Gathers play high level NCAA basketball about 20 years ago with a known heart condition before collapsing and dying in the 1990s?

great name.

was he drafted to Denver Nuggets? I think he may have been. I remember Robert Pack and Chris Jackson ask Mahmoud Abdul Rauf tourettes guy tourettes guy tourettes guy $h!it $h!t $h!t!!!!

He died in a college game for Loyola Marymount. Unless you are being facetious, Chris Jackson changed his name to Mahmoud Abdul Rauf.

 

[blutto]

Re: Re:

And these days, any number of athletes obviously are a walking PEDs bouillabaisse.

inandof themself, on the single individual application, you were right, and you are right when you imply the way they are cocktailed, no one knows how they will work...

but in the long run, p'raps even bodybuilding is safer than a sedentary lifestyle with tobacco and alcohol and the legal medications...

Only if sedentary life leads to peer pressure to drink stupidly and smoke at all. Culturally smoking is frowned upon. Drinking to excess seems a young person's purusit -- typically.

but the marginalised and disaffected have overwhelming propensities in such pursuits...

You can say that again, brother. But you find the marginalized and disaffected sometimes in surprising places. In my youth, in what seems now like a previous incarnation, I was the room service manager in a swanky hotel. One day, Bjorn Borg flew in to town to play some kind of demo game. I think he was newly retired then at around the ripe old age of 27 or 28. Anyway, he checked in to the hotel and the first thing he did when he got to his room was call room service. His order: a fifth of Johnny Walker Black and a pack of Marlboro Reds. I remember being shocked.

...that is right out of the Guy Lafleur playbook....chain smoking btwn periods and brandy at all other times...just think how really great he could have been, because in that state he was already awesome....

Cheers

 

[Maxiton]

Re: Re:

but the marginalised and disaffected have overwhelming propensities in such pursuits...

You can say that again, brother. But you find the marginalized and disaffected sometimes in surprising places. In my youth, in what seems now like a previous incarnation, I was the room service manager in a swanky hotel. One day, Bjorn Borg flew in to town to play some kind of demo game. I think he was newly retired then at around the ripe old age of 27 or 28. Anyway, he checked in to the hotel and the first thing he did when he got to his room was call room service. His order: a fifth of Johnny Walker Black and a pack of Marlboro Reds. I remember being shocked.

...that is right out of the Guy Lafleur playbook....chain smoking btwn periods and brandy at all other times...just think how really great he could have been, because in that state he was already awesome....

Cheers

 

[oldcrank]

Re: Heart Aliments- Result of Genetics, Doping or over exerc

Suddenly too many riders are getting heart problems Vansummeren , Rogers, Gesink, Nuyens, Albert etc. Are they due to genetic defects, over exercise or due to doping? Would doping (EPO specifically) actually prevent heart ailments by reducing the max effort required by the heart. Discuss.

"Sometimes somebody just doesn't wake up one day.
Sometimes it's a heart attack, sometimes they just don't say."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqA_xpOZcOU&list=RDOsDL7GIn1uw&index=2

 

[sniper]

Augustinus Antonius Maria "Stijn" Jaspers (23 June 1961 – 18 October 1984) was a Dutch Runner. He competed in the 5000 m event at the 1984 Summer Olympics, but failed to reach the final.[1] In 1983 he won national titles in the 1500 m and 5000 m events.

After completing military service with the Dutch Navy in Driehuis, in 1982 he went to study at Clemson University, South Carolina, United States. He died in his sleep in his room at Clemson, of a rare heart deficiency, which doctors have not detected in him previously.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stijn_Jaspers

 

[sniper]

Re:

Vanmol (...) as a doctor was connected to the team for which the Polish cyclist Halupczok rode (world champion amateurs 1989). Halupczok had to stop cycling due to heart problems and died shortly after during a game of futsal. http://www.trouw.nl/tr/nl/5009/Archief/article/detail/2727795/1997/01/21/Ik-vind-het-laf-om-daarmee-naar-buiten-te-komen-ja-laf.dhtml

In 1989 he [Halupczok] became the amateur champion at the 1989 UCI Road World Championships.

In 1990 he signed professional terms and took part in the World Championships in Utsunomiya. He was later diagnosed with cardiac arrhythmia, which meant that he had to quit professional cycling. It was suspected that the cause of his health problems was the use of EPO. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joachim_Halupczok

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Re:

Augustinus Antonius Maria "Stijn" Jaspers (23 June 1961 – 18 October 1984) was a Dutch Runner. He competed in the 5000 m event at the 1984 Summer Olympics, but failed to reach the final.[1] In 1983 he won national titles in the 1500 m and 5000 m events.

After completing military service with the Dutch Navy in Driehuis, in 1982 he went to study at Clemson University, South Carolina, United States. He died in his sleep in his room at Clemson, of a rare heart deficiency, which doctors have not detected in him previously.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stijn_Jaspers

A congenital malformation of the coronary arteries, to be more precise.

Was his mother doping?

 

[movingtarget]

What elite athletes do to their heart is beyond normal of course. Triathletes I think would have similar findings to pro cyclists. I think most of the problems would be genetic and from over exertion, with some drug related issues that make existing conditions worse. You sometimes hear of children dropping dead on playing fields in their teens. Some issues are undetected for a long time others are picked up at birth. Erratic heartbeat seems pretty common with athletes. Some have to end their careers early because of the dangers others can be sorted out with surgery.

 

[fmk_RoI]

New Belgian study in BMJ (PDF)

Harms and benefits of screening young people to prevent sudden cardiac death
Sudden cardiac death of young athletes needs to be avoided but does screening really help?

• Hans Van Brabandt researcher,
  Anja Desomer researcher,
  Sophie Gerkens economist,
  Mattias Neyt health economist

 

[fmk_RoI]

George Herschell, Cycling as a Cause of Heart Disease

 

[sniper]

interesting links, thanks.

imo (correct me if wrong), there is always going to be a gap in our knowledge as long as the science doesn't compare cyclists who've doped with a control group of cyclists who haven't doped.

and that's still a simplification of what really needs to be done, as in reality we'd need different control groups testing different kinds of PEDs.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Army Captain (and combat veteran) suffers cardiac event at mile 23 of London Marathon.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/london-marathon-death-david-seath-soldier-dies-three-miles-from-finish-line-after-suffering-cardiac-a6999411.html

Whilst doping can increase the risks, sometimes these things *just happen* in apparently healthy individuals.

 

[Oldermanish]

Re:

interesting links, thanks.

imo (correct me if wrong), there is always going to be a gap in our knowledge as long as the science doesn't compare cyclists who've doped with a control group of cyclists who haven't doped.

and that's still a simplification of what really needs to be done, as in reality we'd need different control groups testing different kinds of PEDs.

We have a pretty good control group for PEDs in cycling. The rise of stomach cancer deaths in procyclists from the 60's and 70's....knee, back problems during the steroid/EPO era and now heart ailments (which have probably been around for the entire time). All of these PEDs contribute to either performance or muscular recovery. None of them help essential organs or soft tissue stress which are doomed to accelerated aging under the increased load imposed by the other enhancements.
It'll be interesting to see the mortality profiles of the early EPO cyclists, since they were no doubt using many other recovery aids in the quest to train and race more miles.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

...
We have a pretty good control group for PEDs in cycling. The rise of stomach cancer deaths in procyclists from the 60's and 70's....knee, back problems during the steroid/EPO era and now heart ailments (which have probably been around for the entire time). All of these PEDs contribute to either performance or muscular recovery. None of them help essential organs or soft tissue stress which are doomed to accelerated aging under the increased load imposed by the other enhancements.
It'll be interesting to see the mortality profiles of the early EPO cyclists, since they were no doubt using many other recovery aids in the quest to train and race more miles.

good post & points.


I'm bringing this link over from the "first epo users" thread. Intruguing piece, and although i disagree with pars of his analysis (see "first epo users" thread), it contains plenty of interesting figures and references for further reading wrt (sudden) deaths in endurance sports:

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17460263.2011.555208

 

[Red Rick]

http://www.telegraaf.nl/telesport/wielersport/26170766/__Theunisse_had_100_hartinfarcten__.html

Only a small part of the whole story, but it seems Gert-Jan Theunisse has gotten quite the heart ailments recently. Whole story will be in the Telegraaf tomorrow, not sure if they'll connect it to his doping history