Hein Verbruggen

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Clausfarre

Clausfarre

Jan 20, 2013
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If Neil Armstrong had anything to say in the matter:

One small step for Lance.... One giant heap of s@$t for Hein.
 
S

sniper

Oct 16, 2010
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Dutch Algemeen Dagblad with a special on Verbruggen today.
I read the article quickly and cursory in some restaurant and couldn't bring it with me. Perhaps somebody else can provide more details later.
This is what I got from it:

First a couple of new declarations by former pros, all along the lines of Hein threatening people, not taking doping stories seriously, and about the corrupt testing process. (not spectacularly new info, but at least the sources are new)

Also, interesting comment from Schenk about how McQuaid had already secured his position as president well before the elections in September 2005. Apparently, he moved to Aigle, got a UCI car and presidential salary, all already in February.
She also notes (not sure if this is news) that, according to UCI rules, McQuaid shouldn't even have been eligible for the presidency (don't know exactly why). She explicitly calls it corruption.

In any case, the mudslinging at Verbruggen/McQuaid has started.
Both are no longer holding positions of great power, which apparently makes it alot easier for people to talk.
 
Epicycle

Epicycle

Mar 19, 2009
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sniper said:
Also, interesting comment from Schenk about how McQuaid had already secured his position as president well before the elections in September 2005. Apparently, he moved to Aigle, got a UCI car and presidential salary, all already in February.
She also notes (not sure if this is news) that, according to UCI rules, McQuaid shouldn't even have been eligible for the presidency (don't know exactly why). She explicitly calls it corruption.
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Yeah Sylvia Schenk exposed that during the summer of 2005. Under the UCI Constitution, no member of the management committee could also have a salaried contract. Pat was double-dipping. Of course the UCI Ethics Commission absolved McBruggen of any wrongdoing and even had the nerve to fine Schenk 25,000 Euros to pay for the proceedings.

Verbruggen made sure McQuaid became president by personally campaigning for him (which was against the rules) and changing some Asian delegates. I wouldn't be surprised if Verbruggen explicitly paid for some votes as well. Pat's competition dropped out of the race before the election because he knew the deck was stacked against him.
 
D

Dazed and Confused

Jan 27, 2012
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McQ was just a puppet. Hes gone and without any power. Hein is still in the game. Can't say how far his web stretches, but its still in place.

The fact he hasn't resigned from his post, tells me everything I need to know.

Lance's first attempt sitting in a sh!tty pub in Florida and dishing out uncoordinated dirt will be easy game for Hein.
 
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sniper

Oct 16, 2010
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Dazed and Confused said:
McQ was just a puppet. Hes gone and without any power. Hein is still in the game. Can't say how far his web stretches, but its still in place.

The fact he hasn't resigned from his post, tells me everything I need to know.

Lance's first attempt sitting in a sh!tty pub in Florida and dishing out uncoordinated dirt will be easy game for Hein.
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sure, but it's turning into a PR desaster for Hein.
the comments in the Dutch Algemeen Dagblad by at least three or four cyclists all corroborate that Hein was manipulating antidoping procedures, threatening people with positives, downplaying the danger of EPO, that kind of stuff.
Add to that the renewed focus on how he fraudulently put McQuaid in the saddle.
I don't see how his position as honorary member of UCI is tenable with this kind of allegations.
But you're right, d&c, the fact that he hasn;t voluntarily stepped back yet speaks volumes.
 
thehog

thehog

Jul 27, 2009
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Epicycle said:
Yeah Sylvia Schenk exposed that during the summer of 2005. Under the UCI Constitution, no member of the management committee could also have a salaried contract. Pat was double-dipping. Of course the UCI Ethics Commission absolved McBruggen of any wrongdoing and even had the nerve to fine Schenk 25,000 Euros to pay for the proceedings.

Verbruggen made sure McQuaid became president by personally campaigning for him (which was against the rules) and changing some Asian delegates. I wouldn't be surprised if Verbruggen explicitly paid for some votes as well. Pat's competition dropped out of the race before the election because he knew the deck was stacked against him.
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Correct. And McQuaid used UCI funds for campaigning. He flew out to each country to make sure he secured the votes. Schenk had nothing but her own money.
 
S

sniper

Oct 16, 2010
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Dazed and Confused said:
Stevenhaagen recalled Verbruggen stating: You have a problem, boy. I can I make or break riders like you. I decide who is positive. I knows what's going on at PDM.

From an article on CN: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/former-riders-speak-of-threats-intimidation-by-verbruggen

Check the voicemail Hein left for JV. Clearly the man didn't turn mellow with the years.
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stevenhaagen also tells that after that threat he suddenly got tested remarkably frequently, so much so that he drastically toned down his program.
it's the kind of manipulation we've been speculating about so often in here, UCI abusing their grip on the testing to influence results.
Apparently Hein was able to pull that kind of strings, already in the late 80s.
 
thehog

thehog

Jul 27, 2009
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sniper said:
stevenhaagen also tells that after that threat he suddenly got tested remarkably frequently, so much so that he drastically toned down his program.
it's the kind of manipulation we've been speculating about so often in here, UCI abusing their grip on the testing to influence results.
Apparently Hein was able to pull that kind of strings, already in the late 80s.
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Look at Mayo in 2004. Had his program toned down so much he could barely ride a bike!
 
J

JMBeaushrimp

Jul 6, 2010
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sniper

Oct 16, 2010
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JMBeaushrimp said:
I give JV a hard time, but p*ssing Heiny off gains him half a point...
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yet, if you re-read that OP by JV on Hein and Pat the other day (the one where he posted that voicemail), you'll see that JV never seems to have had any dispute with Hein over antidoping. Only business dispute.
That's odd if JV has dedicated his life to antidoping.
It looks as if JV has never raised any sort of antidoping flags within the UCI during Pat's presidency. Only towards the very end, when Pat's ship was already firmly sinking after the Lance fall out, has JV come out and raise his voice. a bit late imo. Especially striking to me, still, is JV's silence during Lance comeback in '09.
 
F

Franklin

May 26, 2009
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sniper said:
yet, if you re-read that OP by JV on Hein and Pat the other day (the one where he posted that voicemail), you'll see that JV never seems to have had any dispute with Hein over antidoping. Only business dispute.
That's odd if JV has dedicated his life to antidoping.
It looks as if JV has never raised any sort of antidoping flags within the UCI during Pat's presidency. Only towards the very end, when Pat's ship was already firmly sinking after the Lance fall out, has JV come out and raise his voice. a bit late imo. Especially striking to me, still, is JV's silence during Lance comeback in '09.
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There's a large distance between running a clean team and being Don Quichotte. JV never claimed to be the messiah who would clean cylcing. He said he would run his team differently.

I respect JV's behavior in this, had he played it differently there wouldn't have been Garmin. I also don't have the opinion that it is JV's responsibility to spill all the dirt he knows just for greater justice. Most did much less than JV in the whole road to exposure.

I'm sure many of you diagree with me on this ;)
 
Dear Wiggo

Dear Wiggo

Sep 29, 2012
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sniper said:
yet, if you re-read that OP by JV on Hein and Pat the other day (the one where he posted that voicemail), you'll see that JV never seems to have had any dispute with Hein over antidoping. Only business dispute.
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No doubt people are going to misinterpret this as another irrational, anti-JV rant, but meh.

What I want to know is: what exactly is the "business" or the "we" that existed between Hein and JV, that (is now or is going) to be over because JV is boycotting the Tour of China?

Hein at that time was honorary president, and clearly a wheeler and dealer, seeing as he was setting the Tour up in the first place. He owns or is owner of a media company (?) from memory. But he had no official capacity with the UCI (as documented on the UCI website).

So what is it he was doing, that JV would need or desire a relationship with Hein.

Hein's a bit of a doosh, but he's not dumb, IMO. If it (the "we" of Hein and Garmin/JV) meant nothing, wtf was he thinking, by threatening JV with its cessation?

How about a bit more transparency?
 
F

Franklin

May 26, 2009
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Considering all Hein had(s) his grubby finger into I doubt it's impossible for a pro-team not to have some dealings with the cretin.
 
S

sniper

Oct 16, 2010
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Dear Wiggo said:
No doubt people are going to misinterpret this as another irrational, anti-JV rant, but meh.

What I want to know is: what exactly is the "business" or the "we" that existed between Hein and JV, that (is now or is going) to be over because JV is boycotting the Tour of China?

Hein at that time was honorary president, and clearly a wheeler and dealer, seeing as he was setting the Tour up in the first place. He owns or is owner of a media company (?) from memory. But he had no official capacity with the UCI (as documented on the UCI website).

So what is it he was doing, that JV would need or desire a relationship with Hein.

Hein's a bit of a doosh, but he's not dumb, IMO. If it (the "we" of Hein and Garmin/JV) meant nothing, wtf was he thinking, by threatening JV with its cessation?

How about a bit more transparency?
Click to expand...
legitimate question.
the nature of that voicemail indeed seemed to suggest some preexisting understanding/relationship between jv and hein which had now come under pressure.
 
red_flanders

red_flanders

Apr 3, 2009
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Dear Wiggo said:
No doubt people are going to misinterpret this as another irrational, anti-JV rant, but meh.

What I want to know is: what exactly is the "business" or the "we" that existed between Hein and JV, that (is now or is going) to be over because JV is boycotting the Tour of China?

Hein at that time was honorary president, and clearly a wheeler and dealer, seeing as he was setting the Tour up in the first place. He owns or is owner of a media company (?) from memory. But he had no official capacity with the UCI (as documented on the UCI website).

So what is it he was doing, that JV would need or desire a relationship with Hein.

Hein's a bit of a doosh, but he's not dumb, IMO. If it (the "we" of Hein and Garmin/JV) meant nothing, wtf was he thinking, by threatening JV with its cessation?

How about a bit more transparency?
Click to expand...
Power lies not in titles, but influence and what you can get done.
 
DirtyWorks

DirtyWorks

Feb 10, 2010
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sniper said:
UCI abusing their grip on the testing to influence results. Apparently Hein was able to pull that kind of strings, already in the late 80s.
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It's not abuse though.

Even after Hein was the last sport federation to agree to the WADA protocols, the standards explicitly state the parties that direct testing include the sports federation itself. Since the UCI puts itself in charge of anti-doping for many events, Hein is free to choose who and what tests to run and then opt to process a positive, or not.

Even if they aren't in charge at an event, Hein can order an OOC test on whomever he likes with any kind of frequency he likes and then specify which tests to run. Again, not an "abuse" per se but more like royalty managing his fiefdom. What a great way to control the outcome of the sporting events!
 
DirtyWorks

DirtyWorks

Feb 10, 2010
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sniper said:
legitimate question.
the nature of that voicemail indeed seemed to suggest some preexisting understanding/relationship between jv and hein which had now come under pressure.
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This is despot politics and JV's just one of the royal court.

An unrelated note, recall that Hein was on the selection committee that eventually chose Beijing for a Summer Games. He'll know people with the power and money and most of all the enthusiasm to buy a slot on the WT calendar. It would be cheap and easy compared to hosting an Olympics games!

This was also the same committee/person that demanded the French/Paris agree, in writing, not to enforce any of their anti-doping law as a part of their bid.
 
ustabe

ustabe

Jan 13, 2010
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Franklin said:
There's a large distance between running a clean team and being Don Quichotte. JV never claimed to be the messiah who would clean cylcing. He said he would run his team differently.

I respect JV's behavior in this, had he played it differently there wouldn't have been Garmin. I also don't have the opinion that it is JV's responsibility to spill all the dirt he knows just for greater justice. Most did much less than JV in the whole road to exposure.

I'm sure many of you diagree with me on this ;)
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It's Don Quixote.

And I agree. Vaughters only commitment was to running a clean team in an environment where doping was still partially and conditionally condoned. Verbruggen had the power to make Vaughters' life miserable. If there be any criticism of Vaughters, it should be for his decision to run a clean team under the sanction of the UCI over becoming another voice in the wilderness raging against doping and omerta.

Sure, if Vaughters chose the latter he would certainly have less trouble attaining the level of purity some of us demand. And he would have been about as effective as Cristophe Bassons and Filippo Simeoni. Given the times and his qualifications, I'd say he made the right choice.
 
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