HemAssist . What do forumites know?

[Darryl Webster]

For me the most revealing part of the SI article is the identification of this drug.
A lotta peeps over the years have sugested Lance may have had access to somthing no one else ( in the peloton) had.
Could this be that substance? .

 

[ingsve]

just read that Dario Frigo was caught with a stockpile of HemAssist back in 2001 so it's clear that it has been in circulation within the peloton.

 

[Chuffy]

Wasn't it the stuff that Rasmussen was trying to get his mountain biking friend to transport? Or was that Hemsomethingelse?

EDIT:- Hemopure.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

just read that Dario Frigo was caught with a stockpile of HemAssist back in 2001 so it's clear that it has been in circulation within the peloton.

With what he thought was apparently HemASsist, or some other PED. Actually it was just saline solution.

Susan

 

[theswordsman]

June 11, 2001

The substances is in fact no one ran. Because only one of the three drugs, which pocketed the police in drug raid in San Remo, has been approved as drugs. Another just completed the trial. By this test a few, often initially incurable patients, all drugs. Das dritte der Dopingmittel ist durch ihn schon durchgefallen. The third of the doping agent is failed by it already.

With its drug Hemassist wanted to help the U.S. pharmaceutical company Baxter seriously injured accident victims. . High blood loss should compensate the material. Two years ago the average was in phase three clinical tests: doctors initiated patient for the first time in the bloodstream.But in the group of victims who received the new drug, which killed more people than in the group treated without.. The doctors withdrew from the study immediately.

Here, the preparation consists only of hemoglobin. The substance that gives red blood cells color and binds oxygen in order to transport him to where the body needs it. Baxter has won the substance from donor blood To enhance the effect, he chained chemically more of these ferries oxygen to each other.

The cyclists hope to be an increased supply of oxygen. Risky, the agent is the same reason as Erytropoietin (Epo). Both substances thicken the blood, the risk of stroke or heart attack increases. However, increased Hemassist Hämakritwert not, and can therefore prove difficult.

"Of course, could also develop a test for this substance," says Fritz Soergel of the Institute of Biomedical and Pharmaceutical Research in Nuremberg. However, the doping scientists know what they are looking for. And they revealed only now the chance. For the cyclist must have obtained the funds illegally.A doctor who was involved in the study had to have stolen the vials, Soergel says: "Normally we have to account for each vial accountable." Or, speculates Soergel, it is in substance as early as the successor of Hemassist. For Baxter GM microorganisms has trimmed it to produce hemoglobin

http://www.welt.de/print-welt/article456628/Sportler_dopen_mit_unbekanntem_Risiko.html

June 26, 2001:

Raids at the Giro d'Italia are reported to have uncovered Hemassist, a blood substitute

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/in_depth/2001/tour_de_france/1394900.stm

 

[ingsve]

With what he thought was apparently HemASsist, or some other PED. Actually it was just saline solution.

Susan

Ah, ok. ........

 

[Cobblestones]

Hemassist falls into the group of HBOCs. Search for HBOCs on this forum. Plenty of threads in the clinic. A lot of posters from the time we discussed this stuff are gone.

 

[blackcat]

perfluorocarbons also, they do some serious $hit, Michael Ashenden was talking about a French pro who used this, and it burnt holes in his lungs.

Museeuw almost had a leg amputated cos of it too

 

[thehog]

Feds told SI about HemAssist.


http://twitter.com/nyvelocity

 

[Race Radio]

Here is the best review of it
http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderreport/2011/01/18/talking-points/

 

[Cobblestoned]

For me the most revealing part of the SI article is the identification of this drug.
A lotta peeps over the years have sugested Lance may have had access to somthing no one else ( in the peloton) had.
Could this be that substance? .

No, it is and was a common drug in peleton. Avaiable not only by Lance and produced by different pharmacompanies over the world.

Problem is that such drugs are highly toxic and can not be used often.
It's a boost you get 1-2 times during a GT or you take that boost for a one day race or TT.

 

[Darryl Webster]

No, it is and was a common drug in peleton. Avaiable not only by Lance and produced by different pharmacompanies over the world.

Problem is that such drugs are highly toxic and can not be used often.
It's a boost you get 1-2 times during a GT or you take that boost for a one day race or TT.

If branded HemAssist is/ was in commen usage in the peloton doesn`t that rather sugest an awfull lot of a withdrawn from trials drug has gone walkabouts?
Or..and perhaps more likely , is/ was, being formulated in a laboratory under the radar?

 

[BotanyBay]

Word on the street is that Lance scored a huge chunk of the remaining supply after the FDA rejected it. If any of it was floating around in the peloton, Armstrong was likely the source.

Of course, the fanboys are quick to say that it was a failure for its intended indication (Emergency room product to help stem death from massive blood volume loss). But it also seemed to have a reputation as an excellent oxygen vector... it just was never tested as one.

 

[Darryl Webster]

Word on the street is that Lance scored a huge chunk of the remaining supply after the FDA rejected it. If any of it was floating around in the peloton, Armstrong was likely the source.

Of course, the fanboys are quick to say that it was a failure for its intended indication (Emergency room product to help stem death from massive blood volume loss). But it also seemed to have a reputation as an excellent oxygen vector... it just was never tested as one.

" Word on the street" conjours up an image of "the hood" ,,,in Lycra @ cleates!

 

[BotanyBay]

" Word on the street" conjours up an image of "the hood" ,,,in Lycra @ cleates!

 

[MacRoadie]

If branded HemAssist is/ was in commen usage in the peloton doesn`t that rather sugest an awfull lot of a withdrawn from trials drug has gone walkabouts?
Or..and perhaps more likely , is/ was, being formulated in a laboratory under the radar?

I have seen nothing to suggest that "HemAssist" branded HBOC's were floating around the peloton. The Rasmussen and Frigo episodes involved other brands/types of HBOC's. Well, in Frigo's case it was just saline, but you get the idea.

I think the red herring being planted by some here is that with "half the peloton" using "HemAssist", then the SI article loses credibility with their contention that Lance was the only guy using it. Certainly plenty of evidence of HBOC use, but the point of the article was that LA got the early line on one of many HBOC's and was using it prior to FDA approval. REGARDLESS of what anyone else was doing.

 

[Darryl Webster]

I have seen nothing to suggest that "HemAssist" branded HBOC's were floating around the peloton. The Rasmussen and Frigo episodes involved other brands/types of HBOC's. Well, in Frigo's case it was just saline, but you get the idea.

I think the red herring being planted by some here is that with "half the peloton" using "HemAssist", then the SI article loses credibility with their contention that Lance was the only guy using it. Certainly plenty of evidence of HBOC use, but the point of the article was that LA got the early line on one of many HBOC's and was using it prior to FDA approval. REGARDLESS of what anyone else was doing.

Good and very important point.

 

[Escarabajo]

Here is the best review of it
http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderreport/2011/01/18/talking-points/

Nice info. Thanks RR.

 

[Cobblestoned]

If branded HemAssist is/ was in commen usage in the peloton doesn`t that rather sugest an awfull lot of a withdrawn from trials drug has gone walkabouts?
Or..and perhaps more likely , is/ was, being formulated in a laboratory under the radar?

Everything is possible but you need someone you can trust.
I was talking about that KIND of drug.
Sources are inexhaustible and it is impressive what risks athlets take to get some last % out of their body.

In this case, brain wins, or you die.

Anyway, to go back to unserious modus for the haters, in the end of discussion haters will come to conclusion that Lance was without talent and just won because he exclusively had access to the mother of all drugs no one else ever knew about and that HamAssist must be best because it comes from great Amerika.

I won't disturb anymore and of course I could have saved my thoughts for me instead of wasting them again.

 

[pleyser]

speaking as a "hater"

Cobblestoned, there are many haters who despise the arrogance and condescending tone of Lance. Basically, I don't believe the story that he's way better clean than most if not all of his competitors who took every illegal substance they could inject or ingest. It insults our intelligence. It ignores the several retired doping confessors who never failed a drug test. It ignores the history of doping in cycling that goes back to the 1890's. It ignores the well known history of dopers in other sports.

If the above makes me a "hater", I gladly embrace my status.

 

[D-Queued]

Here is the best review of it
http://bicycling.com/blogs/boulderreport/2011/01/18/talking-points/

Thanks RR.

Yes, we have been hearing rumors of 'some NASA sh!t' for years. Doubt that there is a NASA connection, but this part of the SI article was definitely a revelation - particularly that there might be any truth to the old rumor.

From the article:

An old and widely circulated tale links Armstrong, a former teammate and a mythical undetectable doping substance, but the SI story is the only time anyone has publicly put detail to the legend

Was it Baxter that Lance did the 'Driven by What's Inside' ad for? I thought it was BMS. If it wasn't, they are certainly getting some unpaid for promo right now.

Dave.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Brooklynnnnnnnnn………………. Sup……

Flatbush

 

[runninboy]

It wasn't Hemeassist but some other blood substitute that my family was contacted about in the 1990's. We have a good sized herd of purebred cattle and the company told us basically they wanted a certain amount of blood. The idea was to make a few modifications and then dehydrate it. At that point the goal was to have a dried blood substitute that could be stored in desert enviroments and reconstituted as needed for use in war zones and also remote villages in third world countries. When i returned their call it was obvious they were working under a defense contract I won't tell you why but trust me it was.
I wondered at the time how many other things were being developed that might prove beneficial in a BALCO sort of way.

 

[Cobblestones]

With what he thought was apparently HemASsist, or some other PED. Actually it was just saline solution.

Susan

Here's a thing which I don't understand. HBOCs are basically free hemoglobin molecules which are somehow modified to remain more stable in the body. Nature achieves this trick by binding them inside red blood cells which contain hundreds of millions of hemoglobin molecules. The problem is that red blood come in different types (A, B, AB, O), they're big, and the kinetics of binding and releasing oxygen is relatively slow. Any of these problems would go away with the use of the much smaller HBOCs, hence the hype.

Now the red color of blood comes from the iron bound at four positions in the hemoglobin molecule. Hence, any HBOC should be red. Here is an example of a different HBOC, Oxyglobin, for dogs.

So far so good.

Now, many times in the past, when we brought up HBOCs, the one convincing argument against it was: 'it's easy to detect, because you just spin the blood and the plasma will come out red instead of clear, just as if you had severe hemolysis.' So how on earth can Dario Frigo not see the difference between HemAssist and simple saline? Did someone add food color or what? Or is, for some reason, HemAssist clear which would also prohibit its detection in the plasma based on color? How then can it have functioning heme groups? Does anyone have a serious, scientific answer? I'm genuinely curious and puzzled. Can anybody establish what the color of HemAssist is?

 

[Oldman]

I have seen nothing to suggest that "HemAssist" branded HBOC's were floating around the peloton. The Rasmussen and Frigo episodes involved other brands/types of HBOC's. Well, in Frigo's case it was just saline, but you get the idea.

I think the red herring being planted by some here is that with "half the peloton" using "HemAssist", then the SI article loses credibility with their contention that Lance was the only guy using it. Certainly plenty of evidence of HBOC use, but the point of the article was that LA got the early line on one of many HBOC's and was using it prior to FDA approval. REGARDLESS of what anyone else was doing.

This goes way back but there was a Norcal Masters rider that worked in clinical research for heart/blood supplements. He won alot and was not popular there so I chalked it up to regional jealousy as he was nice enough when I competed against him.
He was on the Weisel Master's squad and while this is all a stretch it would be amazing to see ties go that far back.