Hockey

[the delgados]

The NYT writer illustrates perfectly why hockey fights should be permanently banned.
They are needless and destructive.
I used to find hockey fights titillating--both as an observer and a protected player.
Now I find them embarrassing.
Thanks for posting the article. It is a fascinating read.

 

[knewcleardaze]

Thanks for posting the link. Insightful read.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

I agree fights should be banned. They don't offer any beauty to the game. The game itself it beautiful enough.

 

[Granville57]

I remember when Gretzky first moved from Edmonton to L.A. He said that it wasn't until living in the U.S. that he fully realized the negative effect that fighting had on the sport. Apparently it became a fairly common question for Americans, who were probably knew to the sport, to ask, Why all the fighting?

From the outside, it's completely barbaric. Gladiators.
From inside, it's an integral part of the very fabric of the sport. Gladiators.
It's insane.

There can be no doubt about the trickle down effect either. I started playing hockey at probably the age of ten, and even then kids would "drop the gloves." Of course it wasn't allowed to escalate at all but just where-in-the-hell would the very notion of that even come from? The pros, of course.

I remember hearing Terry O'Reilly, when he was coaching the Bruins, talk of the necessity of fighting in the NHL. Lot's of players and coaches insisted that it "made the game safer." The argument being that otherwise tensions would build, resulting in dirty plays and harsher injuries on the ice.

Olympic Hockey and most of the European Hockey that I saw would tend to shatter the myth that fighting needs to be a part of the game. Now that we've been getting a glimpse of the darker side, from the perspective of the combatants themselves, how can anyone justify it or take pleasure in applauding it?

It really needs to become a thing of the past.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Gretzky... one of the greatest players of all time. And I don't think he ever got into a fight during a game. Just proof that the game does not need fighting.

 

[Granville57]

The story I remember him telling is that practically the only time he did get into a fight was on the eve of being of the cover of Sports Illustrated for Sportsmen of the Year.

Edit: Just checked his book. Says that he only had three fights ever. One of them on the night he received the SI award.

 

[pedaling squares]

Those rumours about Seattle just won't go away. Still considered a front-running city if the Phoenix experiment fails. As much as I want to see the NHL return to Quebec, I would selfishly love to have another team so close to BC. Think of all the tickets they'll sell to BC residents, let alone PNW residents. This was discussed here before, I think the lack of a rink is an issue. Come on, build it. I needs me another trip to Serious Pie!

 

[palmerq]

I would like a team in seattle aswell, if I make it back to canada of course(otherwise I dont care so much) :S.... The canucks are very expensive, although the nhl does put on a good show, and I think tickets in america acan be cheaper and easier to get. Did they ever have a team in seattle? Seattle only has an nfl and mlb team I think...

I like phoenix though hope they survive..

 

[scullster46]

Personally it would be great to see a team move back to Hartford. The Whalers have a pretty massive following still and New England is a pretty hockey rich area

 

[pedaling squares]

Did they ever have a team in seattle? Seattle only has an nfl and mlb team I think...

Yes and no. Yes, back in the day the Seattle Metropolitans were in the NHL. Stanley Cup champions of 1917, I think. But no in terms of the modern NHL.
They have great facilities for their NFL/MLB franchises, but I think the old rink that their former NBA team played in is sub-par, and I think their WHL team plays in an old, small rink.

 

[palmerq]

What do you guys think about mason raymond? I remember he was the canucks top goal scorer a couple of seasons ago... does anyone think he can come back or should I drop him.... errrr not that I am talking about the fantasy league again :S

 

[pedaling squares]

What do you guys think about mason raymond? I remember he was the canucks top goal scorer a couple of seasons ago... does anyone think he can come back or should I drop him.... errrr not that I am talking about the fantasy league again :S

Give him a couple of games, but be ready to drop him. His confidence sounds shaky after the back injury and he has to compete for ice time with David Booth and Cory Hodgson, neither of whom was on the team when Raymond was going well. He might have a hard time getting top two line minutes. You never know though, you can't teach speed or skill and he has (had) both.

 

[palmerq]

I am thinking of who to start tomorrow, whitney has been good but I think phoenixs good run is over, but raymond did break his back :S did get an assist in the last game though... I doubt either player will make much of a difference tomorrow though so it doesnt matter much

 

[Granville57]

Personally it would be great to see a team move back to Hartford. The Whalers have a pretty massive following still and New England is a pretty hockey rich area

I'll second that motion.

The first pro game I went to was '77-'78 season watching Gordie Howe play alongside his two sons Mark & Marty in the WHA.

There was a slight interruption in Hartford hockey back around that time though.

The collapse on Jan. 18, 1978, occurred just hours after a University of Connecticut men's basketball game that drew thousands of spectators. A rebuilt civic center reopened in 1980.

No one was injured. Unbelievable.

 

[VeloCity]

Those rumours about Seattle just won't go away. Still considered a front-running city if the Phoenix experiment fails. As much as I want to see the NHL return to Quebec, I would selfishly love to have another team so close to BC. Think of all the tickets they'll sell to BC residents, let alone PNW residents. This was discussed here before, I think the lack of a rink is an issue. Come on, build it. I needs me another trip to Serious Pie!

I dunno...the new arena project was just recently approved in Quebec, they have a pretty solid ownership prospect in Quebecor, which is pushing for a team, and the city has both the history and the fan support already in place - ie Quebec seems to have all the elements already in place (or will, when the new arena is built). Have to think they'd have the inside edge if/when the Coyotes move.

Then again, there may be more than one team moving in the next couple of years.

 

[Granville57]

The complete Derek Boogaard story

Derek Boogaard

Here's the full New York Times three-part video series.
They did a remarkably thorough job. There are interviews with family, teammates, trainers and pugilistic opponents.

Punched Out: The Life and Death of a Hockey Enforcer

Part I: Learning to Brawl

Part II: Fight Club

Part III: Punch Drunk

Part II, Fight Club is particularly telling...and disturbing. During the archive clips, the blood-lust from the fans combined with the rabid enthusiasm from the announcers only illustrates how deeply embedded the culture of fighting is within the sport (not that we don't already know that). Man, that look that Boogaard gives to the entire Anaheim bench—if that's not intimidating, I don't know what is.

In Part III, it's quite apparent in the interview with Gary Bettman that nothing is going to change in regards to fighting in the NHL under his watch. It's quite the contrast from the interviews with the research scientists who have examined the brain damage that occurs within these players. I understand the spur-of-the-moment retaliation, the need to protect oneself, the predictable moments of anger. It's the "let's drop the gloves at center ice and put on a show" mentality that the league needs to bring to an end. It's time.


Here are the three parts of the printed series.

Part I: A Boy Learns to Brawl

Part II: Blood on the Ice

Part III: A Brain 'Going Bad'

 

[palmerq]

I thought kovulchuks comments about the winnepeg fans booing him was quite funny... He said they should support him because he is one of the reasons the thrashers left atlanta :S.. Don't know if it was a joke or serious though...

 

[pedaling squares]

I understand the spur-of-the-moment retaliation, the need to protect oneself, the predictable moments of anger. It's the "let's drop the gloves at center ice and put on a show" mentality that the league needs to bring to an end. It's time.

That's my opinion too. Sometimes a fight is the result of a gradual building-up of emotions and while it is pretty silly stuff (I mean, who settles anything with a fight in real life?) it is a far better relief than using the stick or delivering a dangerous check. The speed and contact in hockey really elevates emotions to ridiculous levels and sometimes a fight can settle things down. But the staged fights are silly. Sure, they "set the tone". But so does a good clean check, a big save, a strong shift, a goal. I look forward to the day when teams don't take up roster spots with people who do little other than fight. They are rarely used in the playoffs and they never make the Olympic teams, so the game survives well without them. But when a team like Boston uses power and intimidation as well as skill to win the cup, 29 other teams take notice.

 

[VeloCity]

I look forward to the day when teams don't take up roster spots with people who do little other than fight.

Think that's already changed - there's very few true goons left in the NHL. Most of the enforcers are also at least halfway decent players nowadays. Besides, players are so big and in such good physical shape now that the traditional enforcer isn't really needed anyway - most can take care of themselves.

Had a quick look at the season's stats: the current NHL PIM leader, Zac Rinaldo, is 5'11 and 169 lbs

 

[pedaling squares]

Yes, it's getting better as the game gets quicker and also due to parity as you need points every night to make the playoffs. But we still have Jon Scott, Brian McGrattan, George Parros, Colton Orr, Shawn Thornton, Zenon Konepka, Eric Godard, Darcy Hordichuk, Steve McIntyre, etc. Some of them play half the year in the AHL as the enforcer role becomes less relevant. But these aren't good players who happen to be very tough, they are fighters who can win fights and give their team energy with less than 5 minutes on the ice per game. As much as I respect these guys (toughest job in pro sports) I prefer the games where energy is built solely through skating, shooting, hitting, etc and not fighting.

 

[knewcleardaze]

It's unfortunate Derek Boogaard's brother Aaron is following in Derek's foot steps. He plays for Rio Grande Valley of the Central Hockey League. Have a look at the first period penalties.

http://chl.stats.pointstreak.com/boxscore.html?gameid=1672592

 

[VeloCity]

Crosby sitting out the next two games - "not feeling right" after getting hit in the Pen's last game. Not a good sign.

 

[palmerq]

Crosby sitting out the next two games - "not feeling right" after getting hit in the Pen's last game. Not a good sign.

where did you read this, I have only seen yahoos updates and that said he has a leg injury and that he would return to practice today.. eek I hope he is ok

 

[pedaling squares]

It's out on cbc.ca. Looks like the accidental collision with Kunitz left him feeling less than perfect. So far they're calling it a precaution and not a reoccurrence of the post-concussion symptoms. Those hits when you're completely unaware are brutal, it's so much worse when you can't brace yourself. See the hit that caused Crosby's first concussion for example.

 

[on3m@n@rmy]

Anyone know if the pros do any kind of concussion testing?
I'm sure there are other test programs out there, but like the kind by Axon Sports, which I think is computer based.
http://www.axonsports.com/

I hear it's pretty tough even without a concussion just to pass the first time. An example question might be showing 20 playing cards out of a standard deck of 52, and then asking the testee to select from memory the 12th card that was shown. Tough part is, they show the cards then ask the question, preventing the testee from simply counting off the cards as they are shown.

...sorry for the diversion.