Holy Shiv! Specialized bike is now illegal?

[cyclopeon]

So for those who are all for the 'best tech" and are for technological advances are you also against the radio ban? Having a radio is "the best tech" in terms of communication. Is the UCI off on that tech issue too?

Nah; as amply demonstrated worldwide on a daily basis (and pardon me for stating the obvious), Communications Technology is a different animal, in that with each advance in CT actual person to person communications becomes less effective. Especially, but not exclusively, on things that matter.

If you want to interpret that to mean that I think riders will learn to communicate better with each other if/when team radios are banned-- yup, I'm good with that. They'll even learn to pay better attention to the DS at the pre-race briefing

 

[karlboss]

You don't need documentation to see that the device that supports the handlebar on my bike doesn't need to look like a nose cone. In fact, it looks exactly like a Ritchey WCS 4-Axis stem.

To me, the controversy is amusing. I'm sure Specialized knew they were playing fast and loose with the concept of "structural member."

It reminds me of the "Yellow Banana," the aerodynamically enhanced 1966 Ford Galaxie that Junior Johnson built for NASCAR racing with sloped nose, chopped roof, and flattened rear fenders.http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/1966-nascar-2.jpg. Til then it was the most flagrant, uh, reinterpretation of the rules that NASCAR racing had ever seen. The car was allowed to run in the Dixie 400 before it was banned.

Problem wasn't the nosecone, new shiv didn't have one. Yes the most efficient shape for a stem would be the shape we all know and love, but there's no reason (under the old rules) not to make a stem a more aero shape and make it a structural member, who cares if its pushing a little.

 

[karlboss]

The end product will be interesting, and will indicate how privy Contador was to Trek's R&D. The Trek design is based on Kamm airfoils, which features a chopped-off tail. The airfoil is completed by stalled air trapped behind the airfoil. http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/first-look-trek-speed-concept-time-trial-bike-22271. Kamm airfoils have been used in motor sports since the early 1960s. http://www.supercars.net/carpics/518/1962_Ferrari_250GTO2.jpg

The advantages are an 8:1 airfoil that complies with the UCI's 3:1 rule, and improved yaw (crosswind) drag figures. Getting blown around by crosswinds on my Giant TCR and looking at the crazy tube profiles on some of the newest bikes got me thinking of research on yaw that I'd read about years ago. I think Trek is on to something.

You might want to look at their own publicity photos if that is what you are thinking. difference 3:1 and Kamm, not so great 8:1 far better.

 

[Sheltowee]

Big Mig's Bici...he was fast....
I forgot if this is Steel or Alu or Ti...cool head tube - backwards teardrop shape

Looks to be a long stretct from the shifts to the brakes on this thing?

 

[ravens]

So what's the plan from here? Paris-Nice starts two weeks from today with an 8 Km. TT. Then it's a week until Volta Ciclista a Catalunya, with a 3.6 Km. A week after that Pais Vasco begins, with a longer TT of 22 Km. to finish the race. I guess live with the Transition for seven weeks and hope they come up with a legal prototype in May some time?

I asked and can't figure out if I ever got a response. Since AC is well acquainted with trek's TT bike, is it legal to use that bike with specialized decals and paint? Sorry, I ain't an old hand and frankly, with the insanity of telling someone the bike they planned to ride in 2 days is now disqualified, I may never stick around to be an old hand....

This sport has a 'shady factor' that makes other sports look like angels....

 

[El Oso]

I asked and can't figure out if I ever got a response. Since AC is well acquainted with trek's TT bike, is it legal to use that bike with specialized decals and paint?

It certainly wouldn't be the first time this happens in cycling. I hate to bring a certain Lance StrongArm into the discussion but it is well known that his1999 TT bike was Litespeed Blade with Trek labels on it http://velonews.competitor.com/2009/03/photos/blade-re-sharpened-thats-no-trek-under-that-paint_89236

Boonen had problems with Specialized bikes when QuickStep first signed with Specialized as they caused fit issues, I believe with his back. The bike he won Paris-Roubaix on was a custom aluminum with Specialized stickers on it:http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/apr07/roubaix07/tech/?id=/tech/2007/features/boonen_specialized_roubaix
I heard from somebody at Interbike one year it was a custom Pelligrotti.


Some more examples of rebranding: http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2007/tour07/tech/?id=/tech/2007/features/tour_tech_607 Not to mention one of the more humourous rebrandings: 7-Eleven riding Huffies (really painted Serottas)

That being said, there is no way in hell Specialized would let him rebrand the Trek Speed Concept, since that would pretty much scream the Trek as a superior bike. Imagine LA's twitter if that where to happen! Hence the rush to find some UCI legal Transitions.

 

[Big GMaC]

It certainly wouldn't be the first time this happens in cycling. I hate to bring a certain Lance StrongArm into the discussion but it is well known that his1999 TT bike was Litespeed Blade with Trek labels on it http://velonews.competitor.com/2009/03/photos/blade-re-sharpened-thats-no-trek-under-that-paint_89236

jesus christ that ferrari program was good... phenomenal build

he looks so much thicker now

 

[usedtobefast]

I asked and can't figure out if I ever got a response. Since AC is well acquainted with trek's TT bike, is it legal to use that bike with specialized decals and paint? Sorry, I ain't an old hand and frankly, with the insanity of telling someone the bike they planned to ride in 2 days is now disqualified, I may never stick around to be an old hand....

This sport has a 'shady factor' that makes other sports look like angels....

so shady it is like "the dark winter hotel". except for NCAA division 1 football is worse.

 

[ravens]

so shady it is like "the dark winter hotel". except for NCAA division 1 football is worse.

I have to disagree. What is your example? This is an incredibly one sided and sudden decision that gives the affected party almost no time to adjust. Literally almost no time. Why didn't they just wait till he was at the start ramp ?

Like I said much earlier, play by whatever the heck rules ya' want, but just don't change rules in the middle of a game. That is the outrage, not that they disqualified the Shiv. It's the timing.

 

[djconnel]

The problem isn't that Shiv was ruled illegal: the problem is the Shiv should have never been necessary. It's a mutant dance around arbitrary rules, a deviant contraption which would never exist under simpler, more rational guidelines.

Here's my solution: define a box. The bike must fit in the box. Define simple scalable rules for position, in terms of angles and percents, which are proportional to height, perhaps, or some other dimension (key on rules is simplicity of enforcement, but coming up with something scalable shouldn't be too hard). Then that's all. Let bike designers do what they will.

What's wrong with this? A: nothing at all, unless you're a Luddite:

 

[hfer07]

The problem isn't that Shiv was ruled illegal: the problem is the Shiv should have never been necessary. It's a mutant dance around arbitrary rules, a deviant contraption which would never exist under simpler, more rational guidelines.

Here's my solution: define a box. The bike must fit in the box. Define simple scalable rules for position, in terms of angles and percents, which are proportional to height, perhaps, or some other dimension (key on rules is simplicity of enforcement, but coming up with something scalable shouldn't be too hard). Then that's all. Let bike designers do what they will.

What's wrong with this? A: nothing at all, unless you're a Luddite:

nothing at all- if you consider this one....

how about this one for Bertie & Cancellara?

 

[theswordsman]

I asked and can't figure out if I ever got a response. Since AC is well acquainted with trek's TT bike, is it legal to use that bike with specialized decals and paint? Sorry, I ain't an old hand and frankly, with the insanity of telling someone the bike they planned to ride in 2 days is now disqualified, I may never stick around to be an old hand....

In terms of legality, there are any number of UCI approved frames out there that he could have used. After three months of training on the Shiv, I don't know how easy the transition back to a Trek might have been. Personally I'm against things like throwing Bontrager decals on Lightweight TT wheels, but there are so few top TT bikes out there that everyone would have known that he was riding a Trek. Specialized gave him a million bucks to help them be more competitive against his old sponsor. And since I believe, but won't rehash the TT wheel story, I think Trek would be the last ones he'd turn to.

This morning someone woke up and realized that if the Shiv was illegal for Contador, it must also be illegal for Cancellara and Saxo Bank. It's still a bad situation, but at least they were riding the Specialized Transition at this time last year. And they should have a new, legal, prototype for the Tour de France.

 

[Anonymous]

Better that it's banned early in the season rather than on the eve of a Grand Tour.

I honestly don't think a bike change is going to make that much of a difference for guys like AC and Cancellera. They'd still be monsters on tricycles!

 

[Ferminal]

The problem isn't that Shiv was ruled illegal: the problem is the Shiv should have never been necessary. It's a mutant dance around arbitrary rules, a deviant contraption which would never exist under simpler, more rational guidelines.

Here's my solution: define a box. The bike must fit in the box. Define simple scalable rules for position, in terms of angles and percents, which are proportional to height, perhaps, or some other dimension (key on rules is simplicity of enforcement, but coming up with something scalable shouldn't be too hard). Then that's all. Let bike designers do what they will.

What's wrong with this? A: nothing at all, unless you're a Luddite:

Call me a Luddite, but what's wrong with a road bike?

 

[djconnel]

Sure -- I'm all for it. Same rules for mass start and time trial. KISS.

But unless there is a compelling safety concern with a particular design, let that design compete. The "diamond" frame was designed to be optimal for heavy, round tubes. In the age of carbon, there's other possibilities.

The Shiv and its kin just look silly: not designed that way for any fundamental reason.

 

[Ad Rock]

You can see in the pics of Contador from the Paris-Nice Prologue that Specialized has re-done the area of the Shiv behind the fork, otherwise looks the same as the early 2010 version!

 

[theswordsman]

Bike Radar has a tech article and video of the new legal version of the Shiv. Cancellara just got his in time for the ATOC Time Trial. The new bike might be part of the reason Contador spent four hours in a wind tunnel last week, but that's a guess.

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/specialized-shiv-mark-3-now-uci-legal-video-26265

Not as fast as the original

Though the original Shiv is illegal for UCI competition it still tests faster than this latest version. Sims didn't yet know which way the manufacturer will go for future production, but he guessed that the original will stay in production for the time being, but be positioned for the multisport athlete. Specialized's professional triathletes will continue to use the faster than ProTour allows production model.

"The production Shiv that's still in stores is one of the few bikes that consumer can buy that's aerodynamically faster than the team's bikes," said Sims. "The biggest market for us with this bike is triathlon and they don't have the same rules so they can be all about maximum aerodynamics."