It's been on the news here in Belgium as well. Although they talked about 7 people dead. Or I misheard.
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forty four said:
It is always good for a laugh when the potheads come out of the woodwork to defend their dope. I am sure that stupidity combined with slowed relfexes and a numbed brain, each of which is dangerous but multiplied together form a deadly product, had nothing to do with this.
El Pistolero said:
6 died on scene, one in helicopter, last in hospital.
http://road.cc/content/news/28147-d...clists-sunday-morning-massacre-southern-italy
Is more Police the answer this guy had lost his licence 7 months ago so what hope do we have on the roads!!!
He will go down for a long time now I am sure .
I feel for the familys who will spend Christmas with them.
He will go down for a long time now I am sure .
I feel for the familys who will spend Christmas with them.
BroDeal said:
Hey BroDeal, i wonder how you can find ANYthing about this situation which is ... "good for a laugh" !!!
Actually, at least one study done on effects of driving under the influence of marijuana and alcohol showed at least one signifigant differance between the two ...
"Evidence from the present and previous studies strongly suggests that alcohol encourages risky driving whereas THC encourages greater caution, at least in experiments. Another way THC seems to differ qualitatively from many other drugs is that the former's users seem better able to compensate for its adverse effects while driving under the influence." <http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/misc/driving/driving.htm>
A search of "marijuana driving fatalities" returns precious few, but alcohol related driving fatalities amount to many... many thousands. As the "other Mr. Armstrong" - Louis Armstrong - explains ... "it's a thousand times better than alcohol" (Armstrong In His Own Words - Oxford Press) !
It may be fair to recall that the modern mountain bike industry was spawned by a bunch of stoners (well, not all of them were). And NONE of them ever killed anyone!
The only conclusion i can make about this terrible tragedy, is that .. when an irresponsible, A-hole smokes pot, he's still and irresponsible A-hole.
And really, ... Bro, ... what's so funny ???
Witz
My heart goes out to those eight families now spending Christmas without their loved ones.....As for the driver give him life"
ItsWitz said:
What is funny is idiots like you downplaying the risks of driving while impaired because it is weed instead of alcohol. I suppose next you will start telling us all about the wonders of hemp and the corporate conspiracy that outlawed the good herb.
Jeebus. Potheads! Freakin' morons.
Aside from wondering about what kind of information cherry picking might go on at a site with links to how to start your own medical marijuana delivery business, maybe you should have extended the quote that you posted back a few sentences to catch this:
"Standard deviation of lateral position in the road-tracking test was the most sensitive measure for revealing THC's adverse effects. This is because road-tracking is primarily controlled by an automatic information processing system which operates outside of conscious control. The process is relatively impervious to environmental changes but highly vulnerable to internal factors that genius the flow of information through the system. THC and many other drugs are among these factors. When they interfere with the process that restricts road-tracking error, there is little the afflicted individual can do by way of compensation to restore the situation."
That's just what cyclists need. Dopeheads with 5000 pound SUVs who cannot drive in a straight line because the flow of information to their brain has been choked down to Paris Hilton level.
I believe smoking pot is illegal in Italy? So here the comparison with alcohol breaks down. One is legal, the other illegal. He killed these people while stoned on an illegal drug. His crime is that much greater. Human trash. I think life imprisonment would be appropriate.
I just hope they don't go too easy on the person responsible. Also, does anybody know what happened to the a-hole who killed Jorge Alvarado?
It also says that he was stoned. It's a good thing I voted no on Prop 19 here in California.
It also says that he was stoned. It's a good thing I voted no on Prop 19 here in California.
Driving under the influence of whatever drug is a bad idea and should be punished HARD. Wether it's alcohol or marihuana or whatever just don't do it.
I'm not holy and when I was young (18-20) I have done both and the only difference is that with alcohol most people think they can drive just fine and with marihuana you know you suck while driving. While I was aware I sucked at driving there was nothing I could do about it though since my mind was too slow anyways. Allthough this guy obviously didn't feel his driving sucked unless he just didn't care. They should lock him up for the rest of his life though since his drivers license was allready taken from him from an earlier incident.
It's pretty much impossible to proof someone was riding under the influence of marihuana though.
Just don't drive while drinking or smoking... or using your phone..
Unfortunately there are still lots and lots of people that drink and drive.
I'm not holy and when I was young (18-20) I have done both and the only difference is that with alcohol most people think they can drive just fine and with marihuana you know you suck while driving. While I was aware I sucked at driving there was nothing I could do about it though since my mind was too slow anyways. Allthough this guy obviously didn't feel his driving sucked unless he just didn't care. They should lock him up for the rest of his life though since his drivers license was allready taken from him from an earlier incident.
It's pretty much impossible to proof someone was riding under the influence of marihuana though.
Just don't drive while drinking or smoking... or using your phone..
Unfortunately there are still lots and lots of people that drink and drive.
The guy was driving without a licence, was stoned and had a kid in the car with him who was also injured. What is it with these people ? Do they think at all ? An utter disgrace and a terrible tragedy for the cycling club they belonged to.
Alcohol can ruin your life more than Marihuana ever can. Just because the latter is illegal in most countries doesn't make driving drunk is better than driving while being stoned. They're both just as bad.
peloton said:
Well the video reports that the driver attempted a high speed pass and that he couldn't avoid the cyclists.
In regards to the reactionary responses to drug use, this has not surprisingly also been taken up by the Northern League right-wing, separatists Italian political party, who would like to see stronger penalties for drug situations like this.
I'd be all for it, if, at the same time, they spent money on rehab centers and seriously worked upon the grave problem of drug trafficking and organized crime. Which they don't, which makes such reactionary responses merely a vapid ideology that serves at absolutely nothing.
It seems to me that it isn't the pot smoking per se that's the problem, but driving while stoned, just like driving while intoxicated. Perhaps stiffer penalties is one part of a solution, but to me it isn't the most important, nor effective part.
In any case, this tragic episode made the front page of all the Italian dailies and is a further demonstration of how we place ourselves at risk every single time we take up the trafficked roads on our bikes.
I can only remain fatalistic and hope for the best and continued good fortune.
Hairy Wheels
BANNED
We can agree though, typically stoners don't drive too much...it's tough enough to get off the couch when you're high, let alone drive.
Very sad news. And I was thinking this morning that this has really been under reported by mainstream press. Imagine if a gunman had gone crazy and killed eight innocent people, it would have been all over prime time news. That's effectively what has happened here, some maniac high on drugs has gone and killed eight people. Tragic.
I certainly hope the driver gets a decent prison sentence.
I certainly hope the driver gets a decent prison sentence.
Guys can I suggest that anyone wanting to continue the Dope vs Alcohol debate do so by creating a new thread rather than mess this one up?
I think this is on topic. Consumption of marijuana can be established if an investigator with the requisite experience (ie. special training combined with practical experience) to be recognized as an expert in the field of drug recognition is on scene while the symptoms are recognizable. Assuming, of course, that the Italian justice system recognizes these experts.Kwibus said:
A tragedy that is played out every day in every nation, changing, destroying, and ending hundreds of lives daily. These deaths may not be more tragic if the driver was driving under the influence, but they are even more senseless.Kwibus said:
pedaling squares said:
agreed. Discussion of the impact of the drug both in the cause of the accident and the likely penalty is entirely appropriate.
pedaling squares said:
It seems like they could just hold a sack of White Castles in front of the guy and time how long he resists the urge.
6000-7000 people attended the funeral today.
http://www.corriere.it/cronache/10_...ti_025c68be-01fb-11e0-afab-00144f02aabc.shtml
http://www.corriere.it/cronache/10_...ti_025c68be-01fb-11e0-afab-00144f02aabc.shtml
El Pistolero said:
Perhaps you are right. Several studies now place alcohol as a more dangerous drug than marijuana. And I say this as a non drinker non smoker. But marijuana is still illegal. If you want to change that, explain to your government that we don't have enough choice for legal, mind altering, health destroying drugs.
El Pistolero said:
I disagree. Driving drunk is a crime and should be punished. But driving while under the influence of an illegal drug has be a greater crime as two laws have been broken. Doing it all without a licence has to be an even greater crime as 3 laws have been broken. All of which goes to show the contempt this individual had for everyone around him.
Polyarmour said:
In my country a DUI is a DUI pot or alcohol. In my country since the driver was under 25 and judging it as an accident, first offense probably 2 year sentence reduced to 8 months, maybe 3 in jail 5 in a re-hab house.
It was an accident sad but true. Usually if the charges are stacked plea bargin to one charge. But with 8 deaths he could get 8 years. Judging by the car he has a rich daddy.
Polyarmour said:
Marijuana is legal here. You can carry a couple of grams on you as long as you don't smoke it in company.
I'm not talking of a juridical point of view, but out of an ethical point of view. Both are just as bad.
If he did this in Queensland, he would get sentenced to three imprisonment, with 12 months in jail, and the rest on probation.
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