Hot racing coming up in Australia

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

1 Richie Porte (Aus) BMC Racing Team 3:40:13
2 Nathan Haas (Aus) Dimension Data 0:00:20
3 Esteban Chaves (Col) Orica-Scott
4 Diego Ulissi (Ita) Team UAE Abu Dhabi
5 Jay McCarthy (Aus) Bora-Hansgrohe
6 Nathan Earle (Aus) UniSA-Australia 0:00:23
7 Rafael Valls (Spa) Lotto Soudal
8 Sergio Luis Henao Montoya (Col) Team Sky
9 Robert Gesink (Ned) Team LottoNL-Jumbo
10 Tom Jelte Slagter (Ned) Cannondale-Drapac

I know McCarthy usually does really well in TDU, but I'm surprised to see that he managed to finish with Ulissi and Chaves. He must have progressed evn further this year.

Also, what is the largest GC winning margin in TDU's short history?

McCarthy is a beast on short and sharp stuff, I've seen it first hand racing against us A Graders when he was still a junior.

 

[Valv.Piti]

And also a little disappointed to see especially Mas, but also Ruben G lose to much time. Mas simply couldn't get a better readout than he did today but blew pretty hard.

I was very impressed buy Sebastian Henao tho. Great ride!

 

[42x16ss]

Check out the Cycling Tips facebook page! They are at the VTWO Car Park Climb in the Adelaide CBD, and it's PACKED. Competitors include Tiff Cromwell and Peta Mullens, spectators include Chaves and most of the Katusha squad - they're sitting at the finish having a beer and getting right into it

 

[Cookster15]

Re:

Porte always starts the season strongly, and then is on a pretty steep downward trajectory towards the end of his main GT. Looks like more of the same here.

That was true before 2016. Porte was riding strongly in the last week of last year's Tour - no obvious fade. Agree about Chaves.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

Based on the limited evidence here, it's Chaves rather than Porte who I think is going to be the real deal this year. Chaves is clearly nowhere near top form but still looks strong; it seems his base level has gone up from previous years - not quite at Sagan or Valverde levels yet - but in the past he has been completely off the radar in his first few races each season, now he's at the front even though he lacks any real kick.

Porte always starts the season strongly, and then is on a pretty steep downward trajectory towards the end of his main GT. Looks like more of the same here.

Porte looks the goods last year until he broke his shoulder at the Olympics. He didnt really have a downward trajectory until that happened.

I'm not sure about that. It seemed to me he was getting worse throughout the Tour relative to the other GC riders. He started the Tour well and was on fire for the first week and a half. Then his TTs were pretty poor there by his best standards, and he was losing seconds here and there consistently in the final week. It helped him that Sky riding such a controlling tempo prevented anyone from actually attacking and blowing the race apart. I suppose that at least stopped him from having the usual awful day.

his wheel was rubbing in that last mountain stage hence why he lost time there
he was finishing the tour strong otherwise, if he were a better bike handler he may have finished second, even with that puncture he still had falls

Yep, it was a close call between Porte and Mollema as to who was the second best climber at the Tour last year.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Based on the limited evidence here, it's Chaves rather than Porte who I think is going to be the real deal this year. Chaves is clearly nowhere near top form but still looks strong; it seems his base level has gone up from previous years - not quite at Sagan or Valverde levels yet - but in the past he has been completely off the radar in his first few races each season, now he's at the front even though he lacks any real kick.

Porte always starts the season strongly, and then is on a pretty steep downward trajectory towards the end of his main GT. Looks like more of the same here.

Porte looks the goods last year until he broke his shoulder at the Olympics. He didnt really have a downward trajectory until that happened.

I'm not sure about that. It seemed to me he was getting worse throughout the Tour relative to the other GC riders. He started the Tour well and was on fire for the first week and a half. Then his TTs were pretty poor there by his best standards, and he was losing seconds here and there consistently in the final week. It helped him that Sky riding such a controlling tempo prevented anyone from actually attacking and blowing the race apart. I suppose that at least stopped him from having the usual awful day.

his wheel was rubbing in that last mountain stage hence why he lost time there
he was finishing the tour strong otherwise, if he were a better bike handler he may have finished second, even with that puncture he still had falls

Fair enough, I agree that last year was a definite improvement by Porte, although I'm still not convinced he really got his peak right.

More generally though, I meant that Porte flying at this time of year tells us nothing. He always does and has never done anything really significant in a GT on the back of that - in fact, usually the opposite. Chaves, on the other hand, seems to already know how to peak for a GT and now strong early season rides suggests his base has improved to a new level.

 

[Lupi33x]

that video is back to front

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re: Re:

Porte looks the goods last year until he broke his shoulder at the Olympics. He didnt really have a downward trajectory until that happened.

I'm not sure about that. It seemed to me he was getting worse throughout the Tour relative to the other GC riders. He started the Tour well and was on fire for the first week and a half. Then his TTs were pretty poor there by his best standards, and he was losing seconds here and there consistently in the final week. It helped him that Sky riding such a controlling tempo prevented anyone from actually attacking and blowing the race apart. I suppose that at least stopped him from having the usual awful day.

his wheel was rubbing in that last mountain stage hence why he lost time there
he was finishing the tour strong otherwise, if he were a better bike handler he may have finished second, even with that puncture he still had falls

Yep, it was a close call between Porte and Mollema as to who was the second best climber at the Tour last year.

Mollema never did better than Porte even before his unfortunate crash, so there's really no contest.

 

[Lupi33x]

Re: Re:

Based on the limited evidence here, it's Chaves rather than Porte who I think is going to be the real deal this year. Chaves is clearly nowhere near top form but still looks strong; it seems his base level has gone up from previous years - not quite at Sagan or Valverde levels yet - but in the past he has been completely off the radar in his first few races each season, now he's at the front even though he lacks any real kick.

Porte always starts the season strongly, and then is on a pretty steep downward trajectory towards the end of his main GT. Looks like more of the same here.

Porte looks the goods last year until he broke his shoulder at the Olympics. He didnt really have a downward trajectory until that happened.

I'm not sure about that. It seemed to me he was getting worse throughout the Tour relative to the other GC riders. He started the Tour well and was on fire for the first week and a half. Then his TTs were pretty poor there by his best standards, and he was losing seconds here and there consistently in the final week. It helped him that Sky riding such a controlling tempo prevented anyone from actually attacking and blowing the race apart. I suppose that at least stopped him from having the usual awful day.

his wheel was rubbing in that last mountain stage hence why he lost time there
he was finishing the tour strong otherwise, if he were a better bike handler he may have finished second, even with that puncture he still had falls

Fair enough, I agree that last year was a definite improvement by Porte, although I'm still not convinced he really got his peak right.

More generally though, I meant that Porte flying at this time of year tells us nothing. He always does and has never done anything really significant in a GT on the back of that - in fact, usually the opposite. Chaves, on the other hand, seems to already know how to peak for a GT and now strong early season rides suggests his base has improved to a new level.

Chaves is just a more talented rider. Richie has had all kinds of health problems mid year in the past. Sinus issues etc that have ruined his season. Last year he got it right (in my opinion) but had some bad luck with crashes and perhaps his own making too because he's no Nibali or Sagan handling the frame.

 

[Cookster15]

Re: Re:

Porte looks the goods last year until he broke his shoulder at the Olympics. He didnt really have a downward trajectory until that happened.

I'm not sure about that. It seemed to me he was getting worse throughout the Tour relative to the other GC riders. He started the Tour well and was on fire for the first week and a half. Then his TTs were pretty poor there by his best standards, and he was losing seconds here and there consistently in the final week. It helped him that Sky riding such a controlling tempo prevented anyone from actually attacking and blowing the race apart. I suppose that at least stopped him from having the usual awful day.

his wheel was rubbing in that last mountain stage hence why he lost time there
he was finishing the tour strong otherwise, if he were a better bike handler he may have finished second, even with that puncture he still had falls

Yep, it was a close call between Porte and Mollema as to who was the second best climber at the Tour last year.

Mollema never did better than Porte even before his unfortunate crash, so there's really no contest.

Mollema looked strong on the shortened Ventoux stage but he faded as the race progressed. Everyone expected (me included) Porte to fade or blow by week 3 but he didn't. That is why DFA's comment is now officially obsolete.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Based on the limited evidence here, it's Chaves rather than Porte who I think is going to be the real deal this year. Chaves is clearly nowhere near top form but still looks strong; it seems his base level has gone up from previous years - not quite at Sagan or Valverde levels yet - but in the past he has been completely off the radar in his first few races each season, now he's at the front even though he lacks any real kick.

Porte always starts the season strongly, and then is on a pretty steep downward trajectory towards the end of his main GT. Looks like more of the same here.

Very much agree on the first part; I also do think Chaves will be a force to be reckoned with. He isn't in great form by any stretch of the imagination now, thats pretty obvious to me, but training in Australia and being scheduled to ride the TdU for Orica must still have motivated him a bit I'd assume. It will be fun to watch him and Froomey go at it. I'd still be on Froome, but mostly because I think Orica are being smart about it and isn't overdoing it. First and foremost, these races are prep - getting 2nd overall is a huge bonus for Chaves and Orica here.

I don't know if I agree on Porte, he was, along with Froome, the best on the super hard Finhaut-Emosson. Maybe he faded slightly, but thats to expect for some riders, but nothing more than that IMO.

Yeah, it's very exciting to see how Chaves might progress this year, the signs looks promising. To me, he looks the most likely to join Quintana and Froome at the very highest level of GC rider. I guess his TT is still the big question mark though - he's still significantly worse than even Quintana in that respect. Needs to improve a fair bit before he can think about challenging a peak Froome imo.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Chaves is just a more talented rider. Richie has had all kinds of health problems mid year in the past. Sinus issues etc that have ruined his season. Last year he got it right (in my opinion) but had some bad luck with crashes and perhaps his own making too because he's no Nibali or Sagan handling the frame.

I would still like to see him try a season where he isn't in very good shape in a meaningless race in Australia at the start of the season. No other GC riders are close to top form in January. Porte always seems to be flying at TDU and Paris Nice. Considering his history of failure at GTs; it's surprising to me he hasn't tried a different strategy.

I agree that Chaves is more talented as an overall rider. But I think Porte is arguably a better climber at his peak (up until now at least - I think Chaves probably still has another level to reach). In week long stage races he has consistently climbed with the best over the last few years - he has just really struggled to take that form into GTs.

 

[Red Rick]

Re: Re:

Chaves is just a more talented rider. Richie has had all kinds of health problems mid year in the past. Sinus issues etc that have ruined his season. Last year he got it right (in my opinion) but had some bad luck with crashes and perhaps his own making too because he's no Nibali or Sagan handling the frame.

I would still like to see him try a season where he isn't in very good shape in a meaningless race in Australia at the start of the season. No other GC riders are close to top form in January. Porte always seems to be flying at TDU and Paris Nice. Considering his history of failure at GTs; it's surprising to me he hasn't tried a different strategy.

I agree that Chaves is more talented as an overall rider. But I think Porte is arguably a better climber at his peak (up until now at least - I think Chaves probably still has another level to reach). In week long stage races he has consistently climbed with the best over the last few years - he has just really struggled to take that form into GTs.

Porte was arguably quite there in the Tour.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Mollema never did better than Porte even before his unfortunate crash, so there's really no contest.

Mollema looked strong on the shortened Ventoux stage but he faded as the race progressed. Everyone expected (me included) Porte to fade or blow by week 3 but he didn't. That is why DFA's comment is now officially obsolete.

No-one blew up in the third week of the tour except the likes of Aru or Mollema who suffered crashes or went on ridiculous suicide attacks. It was an extremely easy final week not to blow up on because everyone just rode at threshold because Sky were too strong to do anything else.

I suspect he did fade during the Tour. He finished behind Adam Yates on a hilly TT and behind Aru on a mountain TT, and lost seconds consistently in the final week. There is no way he wouldnt have done better in TTs if they were in the first week. If he would have taken his form from the first 10 days into the final week, he would easily have finished on the podium. He was arguably the strongest climber in the race on the Ventoux stage, yet was struggling to hang on to the (huge) front group by the last week. He didn't lose big time like in the past because no-one attacked and blew the race apart in the final stages.

Mollema, without his crash, would easily have finished above Porte. Of that there can be no doubt.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Chaves is just a more talented rider. Richie has had all kinds of health problems mid year in the past. Sinus issues etc that have ruined his season. Last year he got it right (in my opinion) but had some bad luck with crashes and perhaps his own making too because he's no Nibali or Sagan handling the frame.

I would still like to see him try a season where he isn't in very good shape in a meaningless race in Australia at the start of the season. No other GC riders are close to top form in January. Porte always seems to be flying at TDU and Paris Nice. Considering his history of failure at GTs; it's surprising to me he hasn't tried a different strategy.

I agree that Chaves is more talented as an overall rider. But I think Porte is arguably a better climber at his peak (up until now at least - I think Chaves probably still has another level to reach). In week long stage races he has consistently climbed with the best over the last few years - he has just really struggled to take that form into GTs.

Porte was arguably quite there in the Tour.

Well we don't know, because he doesn't try a different season long strategy. I'm sceptical that with ideal preparation, Porte's upper limit is finishing 5th; minutes behind Bardet. What we do know is that very, very few GT winners of recent years has been flying in races in January the way that Porte does. There is an obvious reason for that.

 

[42x16ss]

I'm not sure that peaking in January is Porte's main issue, it's trying to hold that form for too long into the season.

 

[Lupi33x]

I dont know if its much different as Froome rides the Arabian races which are only a couple weeks later and often does well on the mountains of Oman.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

With all of the whining on this thread why bother watching at all if it's that bad ? The same things are said year after year. Everyone knows what sort of race it is, Go watch replays if you think the whole thing is pointless. Australians enjoy it for what it is. It's too hot, too many UCI points, not enough climbs. Tune in for the Cadel Evans race for more of the same : it's not hard enough, it's too short. The answer is simple : click fade to black.

Hahaha! So true!

The one race that should get more coverage and surely nobody could complain about the parcours over the last few years in the Sun Tour, the scenery is far more interesting than what we have at the TDU and the course design has really stepped up but unfortunately we won't get anywhere near the same coverage of it.

The issue with HST is that whilst the parcours may be more challenging; the major drawback compared to TDU is that it is far less "compact" with the peak climbs being further out from Melbourne and less accessable. TDU & Cuddles Race fit into the main summer school holidays whereas HST falls outside this window and its currently not practicable to fit all four races (including Nats) into the month of January

No doubt if the Sun Tour became a WT race the whole of Australia would embrace it. The rest of the world however will likely still be indifferent.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

I dont know if its much different as Froome rides the Arabian races which are only a couple weeks later and often does well on the mountains of Oman.

Tour of Oman is a month later than TDU and Froome has only ridden it twice in his career. So there is quite a difference. Plus Froome is a better rider than Porte - he can win on Green mountain without being close to 100%, so it's debatable how close Froome was to his peak in those two years anyway.

 

[Lupi33x]

meanwhile Froome will head to another Sun tour in just over a week

with the Cadel race now WT and the talent being attracted to the region at a better time of year with better weather, better parcours the Sun Tour is set to be restored as Australia's premier road race by stealth

Froome and Chaves to battle it out at Falls Creek

 

[Kokoso]

Cink is doing ok after instrument change I'm positively surprised with his performance so far. For newbie, decent introduction. Looks like talent isn't missing.

 

[roundabout]

Re: Re:

Mollema never did better than Porte even before his unfortunate crash, so there's really no contest.

Mollema looked strong on the shortened Ventoux stage but he faded as the race progressed. Everyone expected (me included) Porte to fade or blow by week 3 but he didn't. That is why DFA's comment is now officially obsolete.

No-one blew up in the third week of the tour except the likes of Aru or Mollema who suffered crashes or went on ridiculous suicide attacks. It was an extremely easy final week not to blow up on because everyone just rode at threshold because Sky were too strong to do anything else.

I suspect he did fade during the Tour. He finished behind Adam Yates on a hilly TT and behind Aru on a mountain TT, and lost seconds consistently in the final week. There is no way he wouldnt have done better in TTs if they were in the first week. If he would have taken his form from the first 10 days into the final week, he would easily have finished on the podium. He was arguably the strongest climber in the race on the Ventoux stage, yet was struggling to hang on to the (huge) front group by the last week. He didn't lose big time like in the past because no-one attacked and blew the race apart in the final stages.

Mollema, without his crash, would easily have finished above Porte. Of that there can be no doubt.

Mollema lost over 90 seconds to a "fading" Porte over 2 stages prior to his crash. And the "minutes" that Porte finished behind Bardet were in reality 72 seconds.

 

[sienna]

Bring back the Commonwealth Bank Cycling Classic.

 

[yaco]

maybe the UCI or organisers would do something if they realised how unpopular this race is outside of the venue its staged at - its little wonder the TV coverage is so poor, there's simply no demand for it.

even in Australia nobody cares about it or knows its on but for the people who live in the town that its raced around

the points system is a joke that this is awarded the same points as monuments and other big european races - what has the UCI been smoking to come up with this?

I can see why the forum has boycott the race in protest.

What a silly and misinformed post - I'll give you a history lesson - Originally,Adelaide had a Formula 1 Grand Prix from the mid 80's to the mid 90's, before the race moved to Melbourne - The South Australian Government ( which effectively bankrolls the race ) polled the community on what other sporting event 1 they wanted to replace the Formula - The community voted for a cycling event - That's the major reason why you have the TDU.

The race has fabulous public support with crowds as good as you will get in cycling - The parcours is well suited for this time of the year,riders love staying in the one hotel with no transfers - The race is similar to the Tour of St Luis and its predecessor, though possibly ridden at a harder tempo - It's shocking that we have a well organised WT cycling event which has financial security, big media support and massive public support.

 

[yaco]

Re:

Yep, Richie wins again on the Porteberg. Are BMC riding the Sun Tour? Not sure if I can see Froome or Chaves beating him up to Falls Creek.

Only WT teams are Orica and Orica - There are around 5 or 6 PCT teams and the rest are CT's - Gazprom could spring a surprise.