Hour Record Official Discussion Thread

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Some british ameteur TTer wanted to go for the elite recird but was barred from the elite record as he had no Bio-passport. He could only go for the ameteur world

Matt Bottril. I was asked by his coach to provide technical assistance for his preparation but alas that was kyboshed by Cookson.

 

[Jancouver]

Matt Bottril. I was asked by his coach to provide technical assistance for his preparation but alas that was kyboshed by Cookson.

Cookson has to protect his boys and avoid any attention to amateur riders. It is already enough that a part-time rider Eric Marcotte took the US road title.

Can you imagine some "no-name" amateur beating Jens or any others?

 

[M Sport]

You are forgetting Dekker is going to high altitude on the 25th. There's a chart on the official hour record (under "Track Racing") that shows how altitude can add over 2 km's to an hour of riding.

Most charts I have seen overstate the increase by underestimating the power loss. The most accurate I have seen is 1967 - 1996 empirical data and model that estimated Mexico City was worth circa 1.5km. I still think that is high.

It should be noted though that to acclimatise properley Dekker should already be in Aguascalientes. And, Aguascalientes is not at 2,300m (Mexico City), it is 1,800m.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Most charts I have seen overstate the increase by underestimating the power loss. The most accurate I have seen is 1967 - 1996 empirical data and model that estimated Mexico City was worth circa 1.5km. I still think that is high.

It should be noted though that to acclimatise properley Dekker should already be in Aguascalientes. And, Aguascalientes is not at 2,300m (Mexico City), it is 1,800m.

That's roughly in line with the Bassett at al formula for non altitude-acclimated athletes:

 

[nhowson]

I think his familiarity with the velodrome in London will offset the drag disadvantage. He will be on a home turf and I think his "technique" in London will be the ticket. Dennis was wobbling quite a bit and could not hold the best line. Perhaps, that was the main reason he lost a bit of distance in those last 15 minutes.

This is a very good point.

 

[Samson777]

Anybody got information about Dekkers condition at this point? Odd to see a Guy like that without at team.. Hopefully after this record attempt something will come up. Maybe he could go for the new Dutch continental team and be Mentor or whatever, like Hoogerland..

Would be cool if he could break the record, just wonder if he is in a condition, where you could categorize it as "realistic" that he will...

Edit: Disocered #Theyoungest state that Dekker sucks theese days. In that case perhaps it is just publicity. But even then, this will might be worth something for teams in terms of sponsor, which could means that Dekker will get a contract..?

 

[Krebs cycle]

That's roughly in line with the Bassett at al formula for non altitude-acclimated athletes:

Any chance you could post the full citation for Bassett et al? Pubmed link would be even better

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Well according to some articles i read and videos i saw he is putting out 10% more power now than in all Garmin tests. So that would put him closer to where he was when he started as a youngster at Rabobank. Should not be enough to beat Dennis, but if the altitude really gives you 1,5km advantage... it's debatable

Though like most I don't really believe he can beat Dennis. He could beat Brandle if everything goes 100%

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Any chance you could post the full citation for Bassett et al? Pubmed link would be even better

It's all in the blog item I wrote from which that chart comes.

http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com.au/2014/12/wm2-altitude-and-hour-record-part-ii.html

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

This is a very good point.

50 laps ridden 30cm wide (which is ~45cm up track from black line, i.e. that's consistently pretty bad lines) equates to 94 metres "lost".

Such a poor line would account for lap times being 0.13 seconds longer than they need be.

So while's it's a reason for losing some distance and riding good lines does certainly help, the primary reason for dropping pace was cumulative fatigue and a loss of power.

 

[oldcrank]

According to Cookson, yes, although that's not the anti-doping requirement as stated in the UCI's world record rules.

It is now, more or less. See UCI rule 3.5.005,
updated 1.02.2015 on the UCI website.

 

[nhowson]

50 laps ridden 30cm wide (which is ~45cm up track from black line, i.e. that's consistently pretty bad lines) equates to 94 metres "lost".

Such a poor line would account for lap times being 0.13 seconds longer than they need be.

So while's it's a reason for losing some distance and riding good lines does certainly help, the primary reason for dropping pace was cumulative fatigue and a loss of power.

But if he was wobbling as much as Jancouver said (I didn't see the attempt), then there's also the mental fatigue of constantly adjusting and concentrating on the line.

 

[sienna]

Wiggins to smash the record in June in London ...

More here: http://velonews.competitor.com/2015...lenty-preparation-tackling-hour-record_360368

I'll be totally looking forward to this considering Sir Bradley's obvious Aussie "connection".

 

[Lupi33]

sad story

 

[Jancouver]

50 laps ridden 30cm wide (which is ~45cm up track from black line, i.e. that's consistently pretty bad lines) equates to 94 metres "lost".

Such a poor line would account for lap times being 0.13 seconds longer than they need be.

So while's it's a reason for losing some distance and riding good lines does certainly help, the primary reason for dropping pace was cumulative fatigue and a loss of power.

That would be correct if you would be able to maintain steady speed and power output for those 50 laps at that line.

I'm not a trackie by any mean but the little experience I have riding on track is telling me that the occasional drift close or beyond the red line into the steep bank will slow you down way more than you think.

Just watch it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1czalpk4j7E and count how many times he hit the red line (or was very close to the line) right at the first corner.

Again, I'm not an expert on track riding but you can tell that perhaps he needed a more time and practice on that velodrome and specifically on that bike in that position as anybody who have done something like 40k TT would tell you that adaptation is the name of the game and you know that better then anyone else around here being a cycling pro coach/trainer.

Wiggo is planning 8 weeks of specific training prior to his attempt and that will make so much difference compare to an only week or two Dennis had after the TDU.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

That would be correct if you would be able to maintain steady speed and power output for those 50 laps at that line.

I'm not a trackie by any mean but the little experience I have riding on track is telling me that the occasional drift close or beyond the red line into the steep bank will slow you down way more than you think.

Just watch it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1czalpk4j7E and count how many times he hit the red line (or was very close to the line) right at the first corner.

Again, I'm not an expert on track riding but you can tell that perhaps he needed a more time and practice on that velodrome and specifically on that bike in that position as anybody who have done something like 40k TT would tell you that adaptation is the name of the game and you know that better then anyone else around here being a cycling pro coach/trainer.

Wiggo is planning 8 weeks of specific training prior to his attempt and that will make so much difference compare to an only week or two Dennis had after the TDU.

I'm unable to watch it for now (operating remotely / limited internet).

Was he on the red line for the entire turn? Or just occasionally? That's a big difference when assessing the impact. You do regain most of your speed when coming back down track.

I am an experienced track rider and have coached 3 of the current mens masters hour records, so I have a reasonable idea on these matters.

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree about the benefits of proper prep and familiarity with equipment, set up and track shape. We spent months in prep.

But the primary reason for his slow down was fatigue and a drop in power. The fact that a rider gets a little more ragged is also a cumulative factor for sure (poor lines, worsening aerodynamics as they hunch up more/creep forward on saddle*), but it's the power loss that is primary factor in the drop in speed.


* something I have actually measured with numerous riders

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

It is now, more or less. See UCI rule 3.5.005,
updated 1.02.2015 on the UCI website.

Thanks. I noted the new rule book a day or so ago when examining another change to do with bikes and haven't reviewed all changes as yet.

Point being it wasn't in their rules at the time.

 

[oldcrank]

Thanks. I noted the new rule book a day or so ago when examining another change to do with bikes and haven't reviewed all changes as yet.

Point being it wasn't in their rules at the time.

Yes, 100% correct, and I knew that
is really what you meant, my friend.

 

[Jancouver]

Dekker on track for the 1h attempt

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/dekker-on-track-for-hour-record-attempt

His position on the bike looks OK but he looks quite bulky, perhaps the extra mass will produce some extra power.

Nice bike!

Anybody knows if the 5cm saddle rule is required for the 1H?
His saddle does not look 5cm behind the BB but it could be just the photo angle.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Anybody knows if the 5cm saddle rule is required for the 1H?
His saddle does not look 5cm behind the BB but it could be just the photo angle.

Same rules as road TT and pursuit.

The rider may have either the tip of the saddle within 5cm behind BB (but never in front), or the bar extensions out to a max of 80cm in front of BB, but not both.

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

So today is the day.

I've read and seen a lot about Dekkers preparation and attempt and I think he will do a lot better than most people in here will expect.

But Dennis record is a steep one for him nonetheless.

 

[Red Rick]

Any guesses? I'll take the over/under for TD at 50.985 meters

 

[Jancouver]

Any guesses? I'll take the over/under for TD at 50.985 meters

About correct. Plus the 2km elevation speed gain and you get 52.985

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Any guesses? I'll take the over/under for TD at 50.985 meters

No clue. Like Rohan Dennis said, the relative lack of oxygen at that altitude is one of the decisive factors. I don't know how Dekker responds to that over the course of a whole hour.

 

[TMP401]

When does it start, and is it being covered by television?