How Clean is Columbia HTC?

[Bruce_Willis_97]

They've had huge success this year but no one really raises the question....clean team?

I know Bob Stapelton was a big advocate of transparency a year or so ago but It doesn't seems to be the forefront of their team M.O.

That seems to be purely results! And obviously they've got em.

Garmin's always talking clean this and that a making visible efforts to show they are. Why nobody really looking at Columbia HTC? Huge team, lots of riders (from the dirty T-mobile squad)

I wonder....Any suspects?

 

[SarahDane]

Evald Boasson Hagen is an obvoius suspect.

 

[issoisso]

Because doping has huge effects mostly in the longest anaerobic efforts. See any Columbias at the front on the mountains? On the major classics? me neither.

They win just the opposite type of efforts: a bucketload of sprints, and quite a few non-sprint flat stages. A few breakaways where it's not really best versus best. They also win a few time trials, but that's it.

With Kirchen on the team, however, I'll never say I trust them. Ever. Even though Gerdemann has left.

 

[Anonymous]

Evald Boasson Hagen is an obvoius suspect.

Yea, if you suspect him of being a total badass...

 

[mikkemus23]

Evald Boasson Hagen is an obvoius suspect.

No(r)way!!!

 

[Roninho]

With Kirchen on the team, however, I'll never say I trust them. Ever. Even though Gerdemann has left.

If i recall correctly Kirchen was the roommate of Dario Frigo in the 2005 TDF. When Frigo got caught with dope in that Tour Kirchen didn't start the next day. Since then i have my suspicions.

I'm not sure what to think of Columbia btw, the intentions of Stapleton seemed good during the T-Mobile days (didn't they fire Gontchar after internal testing?) and he doesn't need the money. Somehow they do seem very dominant.

What's the beef with Gerdemann though?

 

[issoisso]

What's the beef with Gerdemann though?

He's shown time and time and time again he will stop at nothing to succeed, including backstabbing. So doping is in no way beyond him.

More importantly: Cecchini patient.

 

[workingclasshero]

i guess people just think it doesn't take much to win if you have the fastest sprinter in the world and just use the others to feed him.

of course they have some other absolutely top riders as well but none in the contador, lance, menchov GC mould who need to dope to perform day after day on the hardest stages.

 

[runninboy]

Because doping has huge effects mostly in the longest anaerobic efforts. See any Columbias at the front on the mountains? On the major classics? me neither.

They win just the opposite type of efforts: a bucketload of sprints, and quite a few non-sprint flat stages. A few breakaways where it's not really best versus best. They also win a few time trials, but that's it.

.

Right they can be legally clean with a TUE for amphetimenes if they get diagnosed with ADD, legal speed as it were

I like CAV but the way he just spouts whats on his mind he could actually have it for real.

But i doubt there are any EPO dopers in there

 

[Digger]

When the samples were retested for CERA at last year's Tour, there were apparently 14 or 15 riders with suspect values. These included Kohl, other Schumacher tests, Piepoli. The rumours circulating at the time were that there was two SD riders (correct), two Gerolsteiner (correct), and this is where the waters muddy...two Columbia riders were linked...Kirchen and someone else.

 

[runninboy]

Evald Boasson Hagen is an obvoius suspect.

Norvegians dont dope, unless Lutefisk is on the banned list now


However we know Danes do...

 

[usedtobefast]

i think is 50/50 they just push the limits of what doping is. it's not doping till someone gets caught.

 

[Anonymous]

i will echo what a previous poster said, in that they are designed as a stage winning, sprinting team and the usual endurance related doping tactics would serve no real purpose...

something i was wondering today though, on the whole, sprinters on epo and cera for performance, no point really, but i wonder what would happen if you tested the sprinters after a tough mountain stage, often wondered if they take a little something to help them avoid illimination, on a day when they are unlikely to be tested

 

[_frost]

Because doping has huge effects mostly in the longest anaerobic efforts. See any Columbias at the front on the mountains? On the major classics? me neither.

They win just the opposite type of efforts: a bucketload of sprints, and quite a few non-sprint flat stages. A few breakaways where it's not really best versus best. They also win a few time trials, but that's it.

With Kirchen on the team, however, I'll never say I trust them. Ever. Even though Gerdemann has left.

Errm, doping that is usually referred related to cycling has huge effects on aerobic efforts. Sprints are the anaerobic ones...

 

[blackcat]

When the samples were retested for CERA at last year's Tour, there were apparently 14 or 15 riders with suspect values. These included Kohl, other Schumacher tests, Piepoli. The rumours circulating at the time were that there was two SD riders (correct), two Gerolsteiner (correct), and this is where the waters muddy...two Columbia riders were linked...Kirchen and someone else.

it was more than two, it was a heap of Columbia and CSC riders. Most of their Tour squads in fact.

And from Vasseur Pres of rider union, I got 3rd hand, so qualify Chinese whispers, him, other person, other person, me, Vasseur's mail was everyone on CSC and Columbia. I dont buy it. Lovqvist I do not buy as charging, he would be better, and Konstantin Siutsou has gone backwards from his time at Barlo, so he is more careful, and dont think Hansen is, tho he could be.

 

[BigBoat]

7-8 minute V02 max TT (Tour of California)

1 Fabian Cancellara (Team Saxo Bank)
2 Levi Leipheimer (Astana)
3 Dave Zabriskie (Garmin-Slipstream)
4 Michael Rogers (Columbia)
5 Thor Hushovd (Cervelo)
6 George Hincapie (Columbia)
7 Tom Boonen (Quick Step)
8 Mark Renshaw (Columbia)
9 Svein Tuft ( Garmin-Slipstream)
10 Lance Armstrong (Astana)
11 Mark Cavendish (Columbia)
12 Tom Zirbel (BISSELL)
13 Ben Jacques-Maynes (BISSELL)

LOL, I guess Lance Armstrong's doping makes him go slower.

 

[craig1985]

7-8 minute V02 max TT (Tour of California)

1 Fabian Cancellara (Team Saxo Bank)
2 Levi Leipheimer (Astana)
3 Dave Zabriskie (Garmin-Slipstream)
4 Michael Rogers (Columbia)
5 Thor Hushovd (Cervelo)
6 George Hincapie (Columbia)
7 Tom Boonen (Quick Step)
8 Mark Renshaw (Columbia)
9 Svein Tuft ( Garmin-Slipstream)
10 Lance Armstrong (Astana)
11 Mark Cavendish (Columbia)
12 Tom Zirbel (BISSELL)
13 Ben Jacques-Maynes (BISSELL)

LOL, I guess Lance Armstrong's doping makes him go slower.

Well TBF to him he is 37.

 

[Digger]

it was more than two, it was a heap of Columbia and CSC riders. Most of their Tour squads in fact.

And from Vasseur Pres of rider union, I got 3rd hand, so qualify Chinese whispers, him, other person, other person, me, Vasseur's mail was everyone on CSC and Columbia. I dont buy it. Lovqvist I do not buy as charging, he would be better, and Konstantin Siutsou has gone backwards from his time at Barlo, so he is more careful, and dont think Hansen is, tho he could be.

The reports i saw were two Columbia and four or five CSC....Of course there was an AG2R in there as well as a few others

 

[issoisso]

The reports i saw were two Columbia and four or five CSC....Of course there was an AG2R in there as well as a few others

Correct. The rumours that "coincidentally" were published in a lot of trustworthy media at the same time were of 2 Columbias

 

[Opichi]

One has to get to a point and either simply say they are all doping or leave off. When one questions great results and immediately starts thinking that something is off, I am saddened. Perhaps I am idealistic and am in no way ignorant (yet, I remarked last year how stultifying Ricco's ascent was, and was elated by Astraloza's win.)

We feed the fire of the lay cycling fan's ignorance when such statements are made and the possibility of training, determination...I really don't have to go on, just doping is the assumption.

My stomach is turning over Astraloza and O'bee. I've had the thoughts over my favs. I've got to put that to a halt or I will contaminate those I'm trying to entice into how amazing this sport is and even in a microcosm it will not continue to go forward.

 

[_frost]

something i was wondering today though, on the whole, sprinters on epo and cera for performance, no point really

If you talk about road sprinters, there is definately a point! The fresher you get to the finish line the better are the changes of winning. Even there is a team and train to take you there, still road racing is predominantly an aerobic exercise. Otherwise the track sprinters could just come and take all the flat stages home.

And think about their training. If you know that with the aid of oxygen delivery agents you'll get to the finish line fresh you don't have to put that much effort into aerobic conditioning which is detrimental to explosive power in long term but instead can spend that time training sprints.

 

[Cito13]

Evald Boasson Hagen is an obvoius suspect.

Hmm, I don't know. He has had amazing results more or less always, right from the start when he was a junior. I get more suspicious when riders perform average and the suddenly start to win in the most important races like Kohl and Ricco.

 

[mr.biggles]

I know Bob Stapelton was a big advocate of transparency a year or so ago but It doesn't seems to be the forefront of their team M.O.

Bob Stapleton is an advocate of anything that gets Bob Stapleton attention. When he wasn't sure he could count on results, that meant telling everyone who would listen how clean his team was and how much holier they were than everyone else in the sport.

(NOTE: This isn't to say that I don't appreciate the fact that Columbia polices their own riders. But several other teams have rigorous internal anti-doping policies yet their directors are capable of talking about something else to reporters)

Now that he's confident in his team's ability to win races he's happy taking potshots at Garmin.

 

[lean mean &green]

If you talk about road sprinters, there is definately a point! The fresher you get to the finish line the better are the changes of winning. Even there is a team and train to take you there, still road racing is predominantly an aerobic exercise. Otherwise the track sprinters could just come and take all the flat stages home.

And think about their training. If you know that with the aid of oxygen delivery agents you'll get to the finish line fresh you don't have to put that much effort into aerobic conditioning which is detrimental to explosive power in long term but instead can spend that time training sprints.

very true, there are definite benefits for sprinters to use the same PEDs/transfusions as everyone else.

it might be a little less common tho because risk/reward is a little different for them, their whole season doesn't rest on results in a single grand tour like GC hopefuls.

 

[Frosty]

Bob Stapleton is an advocate of anything that gets Bob Stapleton attention. When he wasn't sure he could count on results, that meant telling everyone who would listen how clean his team was and how much holier they were than everyone else in the sport.

Was this the same time as they were looking for a sponsor?