How come Brajkovic is so overrated here?

[Ryo Hazuki]

RadioShack didn't ride last years Giro?

sorry I mean astana of course. I keep thinking they were there because of Lance.

 

[offbyone]

I really don't buy into the whole story line that the bruyneel is ruining Brajkovic. If you look at his race history, it seems like a pretty natural progression to me for a stage racer. I don't think bruyneel is holding him back so much as that he is not the best rider on the team at this point and this is a GC team not a stage hunting team.
Right now he is still behind some better riders and I expect him to play the role of bottle boy at the TdF, but i imagine that will change in the future. Who knows he may have been elected captain to a vuelta team if the got an invite. The fact that the team completely supported him for the dauphine after his good start shows the confidence they have in him. And by the way winning the Dauphine is no small palmares. If you look at the season he has had this year the results are quite consistent and impressive.

 

[boardhanger]

sorry I mean astana of course. I keep thinking they were there because of Lance.

Me being sarcastic!! But realisticly I like Brakjovic he did brillant on d'alpe. Which is 13KM last 1k flat. He and Contador took 45+ minutes thats 25 seconds per KM slower than Armstrong fastest assent. I believe there was a block head wind but? Time will tell where Brakjovics future is.

 

[janraaskalt]

22nd on vesuvio and 26th in blockhaus for a so called future gt winner is nothing good at all. and don't give me that domestique crap. when exactly in last years giro did radioshack force the tempo for lance??

Besides forcing tempo, domestique work also includes getting water bottles and food and securing a drafting position.

I wasn't talking about him winning a GT in the future. However, just for fun, do you remember Indurain's carreer in the Tour de France?

1985: Withdrew, 4th stage
1986: Withdrew, 8th stage
1987: 97th
1988: 47th
1989: 17th
1990: 10th
1991: 1st
1992: 1st
1993: 1st
1994: 1st
1995: 1st
1996: 11th
(wikipedia)

 

[kurtinsc]

wow he's an itt specialist for godsake and he finished 20th and 11th in final itt's that's not impressive or even good for that matter and look at the mountainstages in last years giro towards the end. brajkovic was totally done for.

show me prove that he has recuperation for 3 weeks.

He did the same as he did in early mountains.

Look... the guy is riding as a domestique. Domestiques are used up in races like this... but even in that role he finished top 20 in the GC of the Giro last year.

If you look at the difference between the stage 12 ITT and the stage 21 ITT... he apparently recovered BETTER then the guys who were in contention.

He was 4th in the long climbing stage 12 ITT. 1'14" behind Menchov, 54 seconds back of Levi and 11 seconds back of Garzelli. In the final ITT he was 4 seconds back of Garzelli, 3 seconds back of Menchov and about 30 seconds ahead of Levi.

Show me where he faded any more then the guys who were in contention? The TT results don't seem to indicate that.

His climbing results didn't fade either. Did he climb with the leaders? No... again he was a domstique. But he didn't climb any worse then he had earlier in the race... if anything he got better. He was 37th on the Alpe de Suisi (stage 5), 17th on Monte Petrano (stage 16), 27th on Blockhaus (stage 17) and 23rd on Vesuvius (stage 20).


So you can say he doesn't climb well enough to win a GT. That might be accurate. But there's nothing indicating that he doesn't recover well enough... given the fact he was working his **** off for others, his recovery appears to be very good.

 

[boardhanger]

Besides forcing tempo, domestique work also includes getting water bottles and food and securing a drafting position.

I wasn't talking about him winning a GT in the future. However, just for fun, do you remember Indurain's carreer in the Tour de France?

1985: Withdrew, 4th stage
1986: Withdrew, 8th stage
1987: 97th
1988: 47th
1989: 17th
1990: 10th
1991: 1st
1992: 1st
1993: 1st
1994: 1st
1995: 1st
1996: 11th
(wikipedia)

Of course this was "another era"

 

[kurtinsc]

what helper role?? lance's 12th place in the giro? if there was one team who hadn't wasted any energy at all it was radioshack at last years giro.

And Levi's 6th.

Popovych (15) and Brajkovic (18) were the helpers for Levi (6) and Lance (12) during that race.


Look... I have no idea if Brajkovic is good enough to place well in a GT. But saying he's a "1-week" guy is stupid. That Giro showed him riding BETTER in the mountains at the end of the 3 week race rather then worse. If he fails in 3 week races... it will likely be because he simply isn't a good enough climber. There's nothing indicating a lack of recovery... in a 3-week race like Lovkvist shows... who was 3rd on Alpe d'Suissi... then 62nd on Monte Petrano, 72nd on Blockhaus and 45th on Vesuvius.

Brajkovic did better on the latter climbs. That shows GOOD recovery.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Actually, Brajkovic looked good on Alpe di Siusi, but had to lose lots of time and placings dragging somebody else who didn't look so good on that climb. In terms of how they appeared, Janez looked less comfortable in the third week than he did in the first, and was hanging on to his placings rather than dropping off to help Lance. He could certainly get through 3 weeks, and much of that time that he dropped was because of helping Lance, but he didn't look stronger than, say, Bruseghin or Arroyo, who were 10th and 11th.

 

[perico]

Look at Vande Velde and his time at USPS and then CSC/Saxo Bank. At Postal, he was basically criminally underutilized, then at CSC, he rode well, coming in the top 25 a couple of times at Le Tour, but was always way down on Riis's priority list and never given the opportunity to ride for himself.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Look at Vande Velde and his time at USPS and then CSC/Saxo Bank. At Postal, he was basically criminally underutilized, then at CSC, he rode well, coming in the top 25 a couple of times at Le Tour, but was always way down on Riis's priority list and never given the opportunity to ride for himself.

the reason vandevelde broke through with garmin is because he actually turned out to have coeliaki and when he quit on eating gluten his improvement was massive. I myself have intolerance for gluten and now the difference it makes in conditioning and overall shape.

 

[nowhereman]

Another rider that has done well in the world outside of Bruyneeldom is Juergen Van den Broeck, over at Omega Pharma-Lotto. Of course it took the departure of C. Evans to finally happen, but this year he is leading the squad at the TdF. And he was already showing signs of leadership last year while Evens was still on the squad. I say Free Janez!!!
( BTW, Janez could have captained the team at the Vuelta, though it is highly unlikely if they had sent Levi as they said they would have.
I think they got what they deserved for snubbing the Giro, when they could have sent a team, like all the other attendees of the ToC did. They didn't and the Vuelta told them to take their team and shove it. RS doesn't run cycling. I hope they've learned something from it, for the future.)

 

[Night Rider]

I see on a couple of betting sites he is sitting at about 10th to 12th favorite, around the same place as Gesink. I think that's fair, I don't think anyone is talking him up for a top 5, but a top 10 is a chance.

 

[menlo_guy]

As others have pointed out, Brajkovic has been riding as a domestique in previous grand tours. The only way to really gauge him as a contender is when he becomes "the man" who everyone on the team supports. Hopefully, next year's Giro will be his first opportunity.

 

[warmfuzzies]

I really don't buy into the whole story line that the bruyneel is ruining Brajkovic. If you look at his race history, it seems like a pretty natural progression to me for a stage racer. I don't think bruyneel is holding him back so much as that he is not the best rider on the team at this point and this is a GC team not a stage hunting team.
Right now he is still behind some better riders and I expect him to play the role of bottle boy at the TdF, but i imagine that will change in the future. Who knows he may have been elected captain to a vuelta team if the got an invite. The fact that the team completely supported him for the dauphine after his good start shows the confidence they have in him. And by the way winning the Dauphine is no small palmares. If you look at the season he has had this year the results are quite consistent and impressive.

Excellent point - Bruyneel helped both LA and AC break out. Good riders are voting with their feet - to stay within RS and within JB's program. Look at the mass transfer from Astana to RS. Look at Phinney. If JB has the talent, he will get chances.

 

[scribe]

Another rider that has done well in the world outside of Bruyneeldom is Juergen Van den Broeck, over at Omega Pharma-Lotto. Of course it took the departure of C. Evans to finally happen, but this year he is leading the squad at the TdF. And he was already showing signs of leadership last year while Evens was still on the squad. I say Free Janez!!!
( BTW, Janez could have captained the team at the Vuelta, though it is highly unlikely if they had sent Levi as they said they would have.
I think they got what they deserved for snubbing the Giro, when they could have sent a team, like all the other attendees of the ToC did. They didn't and the Vuelta told them to take their team and shove it. RS doesn't run cycling. I hope they've learned something from it, for the future.)

still a bad move by veulta organisors. Call a spade a spade and let everyone know why RS weren't invited. Very difficult to sell RS as a weak team.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I see on a couple of betting sites he is sitting at about 10th to 12th favorite, around the same place as Gesink. I think that's fair, I don't think anyone is talking him up for a top 5, but a top 10 is a chance.

that is totally ridiculous. same place as gesink?? I'm an avid gesink hater but even I have to admit gesink is miles and leaps better than brajkovic. brajkovic will never do top ten in this tour at all, not even top 20 and in a leaders role he would also fail in the final week for sure.

 

[Riek s]

Most people seem to forget Brajkovic had a year of back injury and a year of overtraining..

His entry year he did some great work in the finals.
His 1st complete year he made had a lot of top markings (top5 suisse) and leader jersey in vuelta.
The year after he had crashed a few times which broke his year (he is fragile).
the year after he suffered from overtraining which is why he was sheduled for giro but was drewn back by the team.
Last year he went pretty ok with the giro and later a great end season in with horner.
This year he is back at the level he should be or expected to be.

 

[hrotha]

still a bad move by veulta organisors. Call a spade a spade and let everyone know why RS weren't invited. Very difficult to sell RS as a weak team.

Gesink is better than Brajkovic, sure, but a top 10 for Janez is definitely a fair prediction, without overrating anyone*. Gesink should be rated a bit higher than that, though.

*But also ignoring the fact he'll have like 4 teammates ahead of him regardless of what his form is.

 

[awal3207]

THe discussion of where JB placed in different races (when he was a domestic) seems a little irrelevant to me as no one has any idea of the level of effort he would have been putting on each individual stage (except maybe a final TT), particularly once his role has finished and the leaders are doing their business.

 

[nowhereman]

still a bad move by veulta organisors. Call a spade a spade and let everyone know why RS weren't invited. Very difficult to sell RS as a weak team.

In the real world "truth" has a very broad definition. The Vuelta has no obligation to be more truthful than they have been. They don't need us to "buy" their reason for excluding RS. It's their event, they have complied with all the requirements to have the 16 Pro Tour Teams on board. After that it's up to them. Nobody in the USA seems to give a hoot about the Vuelta anyway, so they probably feel they aren't losing much by leaving them out. Television coverage is limited to Universal, after Versus dropped them.
Yes, RS probably could have fielded a strong team, but as I said before, they could have fielded a team, strong, or otherwise for the Giro, but they chose to snub that event. What goes around comes around. And the World certainly doesn't revolve around Radio Shack. That's a Spade.....But what does all this have to do with Janez Brajkovic???

 

[offbyone]

In the real world "truth" has a very broad definition. The Vuelta has no obligation to be more truthful than they have been. They don't need us to "buy" their reason for excluding RS. It's their event, they have complied with all the requirements to have the 16 Pro Tour Teams on board. After that it's up to them. Nobody in the USA seems to give a hoot about the Vuelta anyway, so they probably feel they aren't losing much by leaving them out. Television coverage is limited to Universal, after Versus dropped them.
Yes, RS probably could have fielded a strong team, but as I said before, they could have fielded a team, strong, or otherwise for the Giro, but they chose to snub that event. What goes around comes around. And the World certainly doesn't revolve around Radio Shack. That's a Spade.....But what does all this have to do with Janez Brajkovic???

"We weren't invited to the Vuelta, [where] we had Brajkovic to play as a team leader. We cannot make the talented Slovenian miss all grand tours this year, so he starts now, at the Tour. He is a lightning rod for Armstrong," said Demol.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/demol-explains-steegmans-tour-non-selection

 

[staubsauger]

he was wearing the golden jearsey at the vuelta in 2006 when he was 23! if he would have ridden for any other team than discovery->astana-radioshack without gt contenders like comtador, leipheimer, armstrong or popovych he would have got a chance to shie in a gt (vuelta or giro) and would have shown more than for example a jurgen van den broek did. he was only a domestique in the past and now is getting strong enough to win a gt. maybe he and ll are the poker cards of la, you could never know what la and jb are going to do.....

 

[nowhereman]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/demol-explains-steegmans-tour-non-selection

Yeah, so???? As far as them calling a spade a spade, thet're a lying lot themselves. Janez WOULD NOT have led the team if they had sent Levi too, as they stated that he would have been on the roster too, in subsequent responses. http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bruy...er-vuelta-snub
They don't have any room for anyone else but the Americans. And we know how thrilling Levi found Italy last year, I'd bet he was all for not going back there this year. And wold he have gone to Spain? Maybe. But that brings us back to the subject of the thread which is I doubt JB feels Janez is worthy of a team's leadership role, I feel it's worth a shot.
No, Janez is not LA or AC, but neither is Samuel Sanchez, or Ricco, sans the Cera. And those men lead, or might lead teams in the GT's. And as good as Gesink is, he still hasn't proven he can stay upright for 3 weeks. So give Brajkovic some slack guys, please?

 

[spanky wanderlust]

that is totally ridiculous. same place as gesink?? I'm an avid gesink hater but even I have to admit gesink is miles and leaps better than brajkovic. brajkovic will never do top ten in this tour at all, not even top 20 and in a leaders role he would also fail in the final week for sure.

just curious ryo. why do you hate brajkovic so much? did he sleep with your girlfriend or something? sheesh. lighten up. the guy just won the dauphine while going toe to toe with contador. he looked like a pretty talented guy to me. why can't folks just enjoy that?

 

[FKLance]

cp5 up by 40W since Dauphine. Im ready. 12 minutes ago via web

40w improvement in 2-3 weeks? pretty impressive! should this be in the clinic?