How dirty is SaxoBank-Tinkoff?

[DirtyWorks]

I want to know why he was using Clenbuterol, if he was already 'light=weight'

Because Clen in large quantities helps develop lean muscle. It supposedly works as an asthma medication too. Something plenty of cyclists seem to deal with in the elite level. Who knows how many are actually diagnosed asthmatic though.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/scien...-Stop-Them-160284335.html?c=y&story=fullstory

Think about it like a chicken rancher. Lots more breast meat on a chicken loaded up with clenbuterol.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

I want to know why he was using Clenbuterol, if he was already 'light=weight'

Someone said he was addicted to Clen.

 

[DirtyWorks]

relatively speaking. well i could be wrong.
in any case, as benotti and others have also noticed, it looks as if he's not responding optimally to the designerPEDs that are currently running through the peloton.

on the other hand, people also agree that he's not looking very bad. He's slow only compared to the Dawgster.
and if Riis brought the brown envelopes, we might see a rejuvenated Saxo in the remainder of the Tour.

He also claimed to come into the TdF at 90%. If he's doping inside bio-passport parameters, it's possible for him to get better if he's timed his training right.

If you took Sky out of the race, then it would be a pretty evenly matched field. Slower too. But certainly above pre-EPO levels.

 

[sniper]

Who has the UCI on speeddial? Could it be?

Contador is a doper, big time, but he got framed, also big time.

true.
in recent months, one of the most interesting things that came by was Bruyneel's interview in the HUMO. I lot of pieces of the puzzle fell together there.
crazy.

 

[VeloGirl]

I believe there is systematic doping at Saxo
I believe Contador is doping, although clearly not as much as 2007-2010
I believe Contador has grand tour talent even without doping
I also believe there is systematic doping at SKY and there is a high probability that SAXO is not on the same stuff.


I don't think what happened in today's stage proves any of what I believe.
Saxo was in the right place at the right time. They had massive help from Belkin and OPQS - and the wind.

 

[Walkman]

I believe there is systematic doping at Saxo
I believe Contador is doping, although clearly not as much as 2007-2010
I believe Contador has grand tour talent even without doping
I also believe there is systematic doping at SKY and there is a high probability that SAXO is not on the same stuff.


I don't think what happened in today's stage proves any of what I believe.
Saxo was in the right place at the right time. They had massive help from Belkin and OPQS - and the wind.

And what basis do you have for these beliefs?

 

[DirtyWorks]

I believe there is systematic doping at Saxo
I believe Contador is doping, although clearly not as much as 2007-2010
I believe Contador has grand tour talent even without doping
I also believe there is systematic doping at SKY and there is a high probability that SAXO is not on the same stuff.


I don't think what happened in today's stage proves any of what I believe.
Saxo was in the right place at the right time. They had massive help from Belkin and OPQS - and the wind.

Today was great tactics. IMHO, Froome did okay, with Saxo/Belkin digging deep.

Sky doesn't necessarily have to be on some other, better, dope. The UCI can simply ignore the positives. Look at how they protected Armstrong right up to the Doprah interview. Why Sky this time? I have some crackpot theories.

 

[VeloGirl]

And what basis do you have for these beliefs?

Interesting you bold my beliefs about SKY, but not about Saxo.

Like I said in my post - it's just my beliefs based on observations.

 

[The Hitch]

Against who? Or is that Lampre fellow really capable of challenging Contador?

Scarponi that year was out of this world. He pulled back 2 minutes solo in MSR to finish 5th, dropped everyone on Chietti in Tirreno and finished 3rd (2nd best rider, gesink got 2nd because of a ttt), right up there in Catalunya beating Basso, Evans, then won Trentino.

Also Nibali was at the giro and Contador destroyed him too.

 

[BroDeal]

A decade ago Riis was sending people to outside help. I don't think it makes sense that he would have backtracked since then because it has become ever more risky with police investigations and former riders telling all. So my guess is that his riders are left on their own, perhaps with Riis suggesting where they might get help. Team help is probably restricted to monitoring riders to make sure they don't pop a positive and standard low-grade stuff that most teams do, like coming up with excuses for cortisone.

In fact, I am skeptical that team still have teamwide programs.

 

[blackcat]

I believe there is systematic doping at Saxo
I believe Contador is doping, although clearly not as much as 2007-2010
I believe Contador has grand tour talent even without doping
I also believe there is systematic doping at SKY and there is a high probability that SAXO is not on the same stuff.


I don't think what happened in today's stage proves any of what I believe.
Saxo was in the right place at the right time. They had massive help from Belkin and OPQS - and the wind.

contador, not in a doped peloton. he does not have the talent. that is other worldly talent to win clean in a doped peloton.

his timetrial at Dauphine, did you see it? you know the popular youtube meme where indurain passes armstrong as if armstrong is standing still in the timetrial. well when porte passes contador, it was a great 2013 redux of a timetrial 20 years earlier.

it was like a weekend warrior doing a 10 mile tester between essex and surrey on the M4. he was bobbing around, and did not look a shadow of the second best timetrialer in the world to Cancellara. which is what he was on the full dope regimen.

 

[Puckfiend]

Nicolas Roche SRM data for stage 13

So, dirty, doped up Saxo lets a rider's power data be published, but transparent ZTP Sky and Johan Brailsford act like this info is top secret? I don't understand.

 

[blackcat]

A decade ago Riis was sending people to outside help. I don't think it makes sense that he would have backtracked since then because it has become ever more risky with police investigations and former riders telling all. So my guess is that his riders are left on their own, perhaps with Riis suggesting where they might get help. Team help is probably restricted to monitoring riders to make sure they don't pop a positive and standard low-grade stuff that most teams do, like coming up with excuses for cortisone.

In fact, I am skeptical that team still have teamwide programs.

bang. right on.

Riis was sending them to Fuentes a decade ago. That is how Frankie got good, got good fast, got good quick /grammar.

and then Riis sends Damsgaard a new Cervelo top spec.

plausible deniability.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Someone said he was addicted to Clen.

Haha who said that

 

[karlboss]

contador, not in a doped peloton. he does not have the talent. that is other worldly talent to win clean in a doped peloton.

his timetrial at Dauphine, did you see it? you know the popular youtube meme where indurain passes armstrong as if armstrong is standing still in the timetrial. well when porte passes contador, it was a great 2013 redux of a timetrial 20 years earlier.

it was like a weekend warrior doing a 10 mile tester between essex and surrey on the M4. he was bobbing around, and did not look a shadow of the second best timetrialer in the world to Cancellara. which is what he was on the full dope regimen.

Just to clarify you are saying he has the talent to win clean in a clean peloton, but not win clean in a doped peloton? or are you saying he hasn't the talent to win clean in either situation?

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Quite a few of Saxo's riders are doping, there are some old school riders on the team in the tour. Doping is unavoidable. Having said that, I like Contador's level much more now than in the past.

I would never trust a doper to suddenly stop doing it.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Quite a few of Saxo's riders are doping, there are some old school riders on the team in the tour. Doping is unavoidable. Having said that, I like Contador's level much more now than in the past.

I would never trust a doper to suddenly stop doing it.

I don't

 

[blackcat]

Quite a few of Saxo's riders are doping, there are some old school riders on the team in the tour. Doping is unavoidable. Having said that, I like Contador's level much more now than in the past.

I would never trust a doper to suddenly stop doing it.

exactly, frankly that is an aburd proposition expecting a rider who rode with pharmaceutical assistance, and won, to come back, and ride on bread and water. that is not normal

 

[blackcat]

Just to clarify you are saying he has the talent to win clean in a clean peloton, but not win clean in a doped peloton? or are you saying he hasn't the talent to win clean in either situation?

not sure. it is impossible to tell who would win if everyone rode without pharmaceutical assistance since they were 16.

But Porte left the timetrial starthouse 3 mins after pistolero, and he passed him like he was standing still. indurain armstrong mkII

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Haha who said that

I think it was a spanish guy, don't remember exactly who or where. Not all spanish think Velasco is clean as some would keep saying here.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I don't

Even with the little smile, I understand. Lots of fans wants dominance:

Indurain
Armstrong
Contador
Froome

etc.

Not me. I think its dull and offer only a small drama.

If Froome continues to dominate on the climbs and the last TT, I will be bored

When Contador dominated on the climbs and in the TTs, the show lacked suspense and I got lots of sleep.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Nicolas Roche SRM data for stage 13

So, dirty, doped up Saxo lets a rider's power data be published, but transparent ZTP Sky and Johan Brailsford act like this info is top secret? I don't understand.

Movistar also. Them and saxo don't seem to be afraid of pseudo scientists.

 

[Arnout]

I think it was a spanish guy, don't remember exactly who or where. Not all spanish think Velasco is clean as some would keep saying here.

No. Contador just has, if I may quote Igor Anton, "important friends"...

 

[notrolfsorensen]

Maybe he refuses to dope. Maybe he refuses to dope a lot. Maybe he caught as zam would say a severe disease while transfusing blood, maybe he doesn't feel like training because he is lazy or because mrs contador wants a baby and 5 hours a day in the saddle doesn't help, maybe he's past his peak, maybe he is hiding and will go full *** in the alpes, maybe his epilepsy has gotten worse, maybe he peaked wrong, maybe he peaks like A Schleck but for just one week, maybe stage 8 was just a really bad day, maybe he is depressed, maybe he's suffering from allergies, maybe he's injured or ill, maybe he's got a major saddle sore, maybe he's being target tested, so many explanations.

And maybe he's just having and off year. To bolded: If he has ramped it down and realises that Froome hasn't you can be sure that he will be competitive again next year. He's only 30.

 

[burning]

Have you seen how fast he went on Etna?

He was also a *lot* stronger in the Tour afterwards, than Froome was in the Vuelta last year...

I think Etna was around 6.4-6.5 W/Kg (After he took off) and that was after Clen incident, I seriously doubt that he changed his doping regime since Giro 2011