How dirty is SaxoBank-Tinkoff?

[Moose McKnuckles]

Anyone have confidence in this team?

Riis refuses to admit to knowing Fuentes, per Hamilton's testimony.
Oleg Tinkov is now backing the team.
Their lead rider is formerly banned dope cheat Alberto Contador, who worked with Pepe Marti, until the latter's ban.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

None at all.

 

[ToreBear]

Anyone have confidence in this team?

Riis refuses to admit to knowing Fuentes, per Hamilton's testimony.
Oleg Tinkov is now backing the team.
Their lead rider is formerly banned dope cheat Alberto Contador, who worked with Pepe Marti, until the latter's ban.

I have confidence in the team currently being clean. Or rather if someone is doping, it is without the consent of management.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Or rather if someone is doping, it is without the consent of management.

Not sure how you can say that given what Hamilton has said about Tinkov.

 

[robow7]

Since it's election day here in the US, I vote NO confidence.

 

[cocteau_ireland]

Not sure how you can say that given what Hamilton has said about Tinkov.

What that tinkov said to a sport full of cheats, go cheat? Owners can be silent , nuanced or brazen. Doesn't mean there's any difference.

 

[peterst6906]

I have full confidence.

Full confidence that they are doping and that Riis knows about it, backed by Tinkoff who wants results, but without the details so he has plausible deniability.

In relation to Riis:

The first rule of lie club is do not talk about the lie.
The second rule of lie club is deny, deny, deny.

 

[Magnus]

Not sure how you can say that given what Hamilton has said about Tinkov.

Tinkoff is the sponsor. Not the manager.

 

[cineteq]

Tinkoff is the sponsor. Not the manager.

'I do not care what you do, just do not get caught'.

 

[Magnus]

What do you mean by confidence in the team?

I'm fairly confident that they never had an organized doping program that systematically administered epo/blood to all team members.

I'm fairly confident that most of their present riders are clean.

I'm fairly confident that Riis (at least at some level) knew about Hamilton doping.

 

[Magnus]

'I do not care what you do, just do not get caught'.

I'm aware of what the man (accordingly to Hamilton, who doesn't seem to be on Christmas cards with Oleg) said. But I don't consider Tinkoff to be part of the management of SBTB.

 

[hrotha]

I'm fairly confident Riis is the ultimate pragmatic cynic, and will resort to doping his riders for as long as he thinks the risk/reward ratio is favourable, regardless of what everyone else is doing.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

 

[DominicDecoco]

Doped to the gills before 2007. No question.

I think there are a lot of worse teams out there today doping wise.

 

[peterst6906]

I think there are a lot of worse teams out there today doping wise.

Yeah, like the former team Tinkoff was involved with - Katusha; and then in a close second Astana.

 

[pdluz7]

Not sure how you can say that given what Hamilton has said about Tinkov.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/hamilton-on-tinkov-his-return-is-a-setback-for-cycling
...... I wished I had a good relationship with Bjarne..........

I do not like Oleg Tinkov......

 

[pdluz7]

I have confidence in the team currently being clean. Or rather if someone is doping, it is without the consent of management.

I agree. Everyone clean, now.

 

[Fidolix]

Totally and utterly worthless thread!

Truth is you can´t say no other team did different, they were part of a culture, every single one were involved and part of it, and in fact I believe there were teams with more organized programs than Saxo who as it looks like only doped their top riders, Hamilton, Basso and Schleck, Zabriskie and VDV both stated they doped without the teams knowing or blessing.

USPS, Festina, TVM, Rabo etc. everybody is involved, nobody is more credible than another, whatever things have changed today... I do believe Saxo is clean today, their results suggest that by a mile, something you can´t say about a couple of other teams.

 

[peterst6906]

Totally and utterly worthless thread!

Fit's in the clinic perfectly.

 

[manafana]

tinkoff odes stink a bit thou

 

[rata de sentina]

'I do not care what you do, just do not get caught'.

So, when exactly did he say this?

 

[BroDeal]

The evidence that we have about Riis paints a much more complex picture that what people have assumed. Riis appears to have pointed his riders to outside resources so they can dope on their own outside the team, but he and his staff were not actively involved beyond monitoring blood values and the usual medical shenanigans with TUEs for things like cortisone. This is different than managers like Bruyneel and Saiz.

A lot of time has passed since Hamilton and Jaksche worked with Riis. It may be reasonable to assume that a manager who was already doing less than the top fuel teams may have cut back even further, especially since the bio passport has made doping more difficult and reduced the effectiveness of the doping.

My read on Riis is that he wants his team to survive long term. Doping scandals are bad for survival.

 

[cineteq]

So, when exactly did he say this?

Tyler Hamilton said this, it's old news.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/hamilton-on-tinkov-his-return-is-a-setback-for-cycling

 

[rata de sentina]

Tyler Hamilton said this, it's old news.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/hamilton-on-tinkov-his-return-is-a-setback-for-cycling

That was a different era. Tinkoff is a changed man, undergone some kind of revelation or somefink. Sheesh get with the program.

To be fair Tinkoff would have a lot less influence at Saxo. Riis's involvement/mindset is more important.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

You guys are hilarious. Some of you actually think a guy like Tinkov is going to hand over millions and not have a major say in the team.

Seriously. Wake up.