How dirty is SaxoBank-Tinkoff?

[GJB123]

I personally believe that TH is telling the truth regarding his history with Riis and Fuentes. Why? Because Coyle decided to pit it in the book and only did that when he could get the story corroborated independently.

I still also believe that there never was a team wide doping program USPS-style. Riis is a smart man who I think believes that grown-up sportsmen should make their own informed decision on using PED's or not. However once you do decide to cross that line (sorry Mr. Routley ), he will do everything in his power (being a control freak and all) to protect his investment. So yes, I think he knows/knew who uses/used PED's in his team and even steered them to people he knew and more or less trusted. I don't believe however that he forced, coerced, bullies riders in to using PED's and I even hope he accepted it gracefully even they would choose not go down that road.

Do I know this for sure? No, but based on the information we have of the characters involved I feel this sounds reasonable and acceptable.

Regards
GJ

 

[Taxus4a]

I dont know if they are dirty, but is quite surprising for me his TTT today in TDF.

1. Orica-GreenEdge 25:56
2. Omega Pharma-Quick Step a 1
3. Sky 25:59 a 2
4. Team Saxo-Tinkoff 26:05 a 8
5. Lotto-Belisol 26:13 a 16
6. Garmin-Sharp 26:13 a 16
7. Movistar Team 26:15 a 18
8. Lampre-Merida 26:21 a 25
9. BMC 26:22 a 26
10. Katusha 26:24 a 27
11. RadioShack-Leopard 26:25 a 28

If you see the Saxo Team:

Team Saxo-Tinkoff

91 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) No good flat ITT in the las two years
92 Daniele Bennati (Ita) well, he is good , but not a specialist
93 Jesus Hernandez Blazquez (Spa) No way today, he didnt push
94 Roman Kreuziger (Cze) No good flat ITT in the las two years
95 Benjamin Noval Gonzalez (Spa) he hurted is hand
96 Sergio Miguel Moreira Paulinho (Por) He is a climber.
97 Nicolas Roche (Irl) No a specialist
98 Michael Rogers (Aus) yes, he is and specilist
99 Matteo Tosatto (Ita) he is good, but not a specialist, he is 39 years old.


And they did better than team witth a lot os specialist or nothing bad as Garmin, BMC, Movistar,...
It is quite amazing.

Well, Orica won, they dont look a team plenty of specilist, they have Turf, very good, and good riders for today as Meyer, Goss, O Grady (well, he is even older than Tossato, was he was a specialist),... but they dont have people like Hernandez, nor any problem as Noval...so, just Noval means that 8 second, Saxo was better than orica before Noval droped,... it is difficul to understand... but the difference with Orica it is not the most amazing, of course...

Anyway, TTT are always quite surprising, but it is normal with this team, with Riis, to talke into consideration the clinic.

What is not possible to say after today, is that Contador has not a good team, ot he is not in good shape.

 

[hfer07]

Anyone have confidence in this team?

Riis refuses to admit to knowing Fuentes, per Hamilton's testimony.
Oleg Tinkov is now backing the team.
Their lead rider is formerly banned dope cheat Alberto Contador, who worked with Pepe Marti, until the latter's ban.

I'm as confident as the Brits are on Sky's "impeccable record & clean approach to the sport".......and any other team in-between claiming out loud their own "clean record" for that matter.....

Riis to me is just "playing along"......

 

[LaFlorecita]

They did well today and I was not very surprised. The team is strong. I liked Michael Boogerd and the other Dutch ES guy hyping saxo They were a little surprised first but then they said no look at Roche pushing the big gear and Rogers is a beast and Alberto being the great tter he always was again and Kreuziger is doing huge pulls and Bennati is such a great tter as well and Tosatto is a beast too. It was fun and I agreed

Riis managed to prepare them well it seems, they are in top form

 

[the sceptic]

They have looked like a new team this tour so far compared to the rest of the season. Especially Contador looks much better than he did in the dauphine.

Are they doping? of course they are. I doubt anyone thinks theyre clean.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Riis: I want to do good things for cycling

Not showing at the Tour for the first couple days was a good start.

 

[Afrank]

If you see the Saxo Team:

Team Saxo-Tinkoff

91 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) No good flat ITT in the las two years
92 Daniele Bennati (Ita) well, he is good , but not a specialist
93 Jesus Hernandez Blazquez (Spa) No way today, he didnt push
94 Roman Kreuziger (Cze) No good flat ITT in the las two years
95 Benjamin Noval Gonzalez (Spa) he hurted is hand
96 Sergio Miguel Moreira Paulinho (Por) He is a climber.
97 Nicolas Roche (Irl) No a specialist
98 Michael Rogers (Aus) yes, he is and specilist
99 Matteo Tosatto (Ita) he is good, but not a specialist, he is 39 years old.

Not a surprising result IMO, they have a good team for the TTT. The bolded names can all put in a good TT or can ride well in a TTT.

Or course they're probably doping, but their performance today isn't far greater than what they should have been capable of. And I doubt they're doping any more than Sky or any other team.

 

[boladelmundo]

SBTB is the cleanest team in the world.
Okay, next.....

 

[GreasyMonkey]

Well, Orica won, they dont look a team plenty of specilist, they have Turf, very good, and good riders for today as Meyer, Goss, O Grady (well, he is even older than Tossato, was he was a specialist),... but they dont have people like Hernandez, nor any problem as Noval...so, just Noval means that 8 second, Saxo was better than orica before Noval droped,... it is difficul to understand... but the difference with Orica it is not the most amazing, of course...

Maybe you need to brush up on your knowledge of the GreenEdge riders as to their ability against the clock, particularly in team events....

Stuart O'Grady:
1992, Silver medal, Olympic Games 4000m Team Pursuit
1993 & 1995, World Champion, 4000m Team Pursuit

Brett Lancaster:

1997 U/19 World Champion, 4000m Team Pursuit
2002 & 2003 World Champion, 4000m Team Pursuit
2004 Gold medal, 4000m Team Pursuit
2005 1st Giro d´Italia Prologue

Cameron Meyer:

2006 Junior World Champion 3000m? Individual Pursuit & Team Pursuit
2009 2nd, World Chamionships 4000m Team Pursuit
2010 World Champion, Team Pursuit
2010 1st, World Cup (not sure which race) Team Pursuit

That is just a few of their top results.

 

[Taxus4a]

They have looked like a new team this tour so far compared to the rest of the season. Especially Contador looks much better than he did in the dauphine.

Are they doping? of course they are. I doubt anyone thinks theyre clean.

I think most of the teams are clean... My mains doubts for this Tour are Saxo an Kathousa, but I hope no.

If everybody dopes, I wanst surprised for Saxo. If everybody dopes, the best team win, but Saxo is not the best team for a TTT like this, and they lost a man

 

[Taxus4a]

Maybe you need to brush up on your knowledge of the GreenEdge riders as to their ability against the clock, particularly in team events....

Stuart O'Grady:
1992, Silver medal, Olympic Games 4000m Team Pursuit
1993 & 1995, World Champion, 4000m Team Pursuit

Brett Lancaster:

1997 U/19 World Champion, 4000m Team Pursuit
2002 & 2003 World Champion, 4000m Team Pursuit
2004 Gold medal, 4000m Team Pursuit
2005 1st Giro d´Italia Prologue

Cameron Meyer:

2006 Junior World Champion 3000m? Individual Pursuit & Team Pursuit
2009 2nd, World Chamionships 4000m Team Pursuit
2010 World Champion, Team Pursuit
2010 1st, World Cup (not sure which race) Team Pursuit

That is just a few of their top results.

Yes, I miss Lancaster...I know O Grady well, but he is 40
But I wanst suprising for Orica... I think BMC has the same team or better, anyway, but in an ITT it is normal teams doing better as expected and teams doing worse, but Saxo is very amazing.

 

[The Hitch]

Lol contador no good flat tts in the last 2 years. Ermm maybe that's because he's only ridden about 3 flat tts in the last 2 years, and all of them during his warm up periods. Dauphine sucked and tirreno was meh but eneco he was 10 th on his first race back.

His 2011 tdf tt was in the last 2 years. Oh look he was 3 rd.

 

[Benotti69]

I think most of the teams are clean... My mains doubts for this Tour are Saxo an Kathousa, but I hope no.

If everybody dopes, I wanst surprised for Saxo. If everybody dopes, the best team win, but Saxo is not the best team for a TTT like this, and they lost a man

You spend a lot of time in here for someone who thinks there is not much of a problem with doping if most teams are clean.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Of course Saxo-Tinkoff is a juiced up team in the tour.
How many of the riders? Quite a few I would say.

But the team is not alone. Plenty of doped up outfits in this tour, most operate just under the radar keeping the team doctors busy.

 

[Cimber]

Of course Saxo-Tinkoff is a juiced up team in the tour.
How many of the riders? Quite a few I would say.

But the team is not alone. Plenty of doped up outfits in this tour, most operate just under the radar keeping the team doctors busy.

Ye there is juice ón every top team. Including Sky and Saxo.

 

[Big Doopie]

Lol contador no good flat tts in the last 2 years. Ermm maybe that's because he's only ridden about 3 flat tts in the last 2 years, and all of them during his warm up periods. Dauphine sucked and tirreno was meh but eneco he was 10 th on his first race back.

His 2011 tdf tt was in the last 2 years. Oh look he was 3 rd.

Any drastic jump in form btwn dauphine and tour is scary fishy.

A huge jump in the space of three weeks is absolutely ludicrous.

If Clentadoppucci loses less than two mins in the first itt it will be verifiable proof of doping.

Not that anyone needed it. Freakin Ferrari knows a blood doper when he sees one and said Clentadoppucci was his favorite despite performing at the dauphine exactly like a small Spanish climber realistically should.

 

[The Hitch]

Any drastic jump in form btwn dauphine and tour is scary fishy.

A huge jump in the space of three weeks is absolutely ludicrous.

If Clentadoppucci loses less than two mins in the first itt it will be verifiable proof of doping.

Not that anyone needed it. Freakin Ferrari knows a blood doper when he sees one and said Clentadoppucci was his favorite despite performing at the dauphine exactly like a small Spanish climber realistically should.

On the other hand flying up mountains faster than Nibali on a ferrari programme is exactly what we can "realistically" expect from 190cm team pursuit specialists ?

 

[Ferminal]

Of course Saxo-Tinkoff is a juiced up team in the tour.
How many of the riders? Quite a few I would say.

But the team is not alone. Plenty of doped up outfits in this tour, most operate just under the radar keeping the team doctors busy.

Stinks of a small blood bag already.

 

[red_flanders]

Any drastic jump in form btwn dauphine and tour is scary fishy.

A huge jump in the space of three weeks is absolutely ludicrous.

If Clentadoppucci loses less than two mins in the first itt it will be verifiable proof of doping.

Mmmmm...not really going to argue that our friend is likely going to show some amazing and unbelievable improvement in form (as will Schleck), but can't agree with the standard you're suggesting for "proof".

Not that anyone needed it. Freakin Ferrari knows a blood doper when he sees one and said Clentadoppucci was his favorite despite performing at the dauphine exactly like a small Spanish climber realistically should.

Spanish. Is there a national or ethnic issue with time trailing?

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Stinks of a small blood bag already.

There are no "small" blood bags in July. This is the Tour. Go big, or go home.

 

[BroDeal]

There are no "small" blood bags in July. This is the Tour. Go big, or go home.

The blood bags are big. It's the Tour that got small.

 

[LaFlorecita]

I think most of the teams are clean... My mains doubts for this Tour are Saxo an Kathousa, but I hope no.

If everybody dopes, I wanst surprised for Saxo. If everybody dopes, the best team win, but Saxo is not the best team for a TTT like this, and they lost a man

That is brilliant thanks for the early morning laugh

 

[melkemugg]

Riis always seem to have shut his eyes at everything dope, but he still did not care or did anything to stop it. Which might be slightly better than starting organised dope programs on your team himself, like a lot of others did, but he is still a part of the problem and seem still unwilling to be fully transparent about his past.

I think they are clean-ish now. Even Bertie. Maybe.

 

[webbie146]

Of course Saxo-Tinkoff is a juiced up team in the tour.
How many of the riders? Quite a few I would say.

But the team is not alone. Plenty of doped up outfits in this tour, most operate just under the radar keeping the team doctors busy.

Yea I'm really hoping they have been going all the F'ing way with there dope program so they can actually make it hard for sky. Movistar will bring the juice too, can't wait for the mountains

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I have great faith in Riis making Michael Rogers producing his best numbers ever.