how long before Sagan trips the tripwire

[DFA123]

Re:

Gesink on mt baldy 412w.

So Sagan, who's also heavier, must have ridden some pretty awesome wattage

That's his power just for the last 24 minutes right, not the whole climb?

 

[zlev11]

you guys think Sagan isn't a climber? look who he beat by three seconds on this summit finish stage: http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=20393

 

[Jancouver]

Re:

you guys think Sagan isn't a climber? look who he beat by three seconds on this summit finish stage: http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=20393

Nice find!

... does that mean that Sagan is the future Tour winner?

 

[ChewbaccaDefense]

Re: Re:

you guys think Sagan isn't a climber? look who he beat by three seconds on this summit finish stage: http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=20393

Nice find!

... does that mean that Sagan is the future Tour winner?

Of course not, he never won the Atomic Jock Race...

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

The accurate perspective is not look at the time he lost to Alaphilippe, whom everyone acknowledges put in a *** performance as well, but the time he lost to Sergio Henao, twenty seconds only. Also that Gesink, Zubeldia, ten Dam, Kennaugh, a few of the locals, noticeably better climbers than Sagan on any situation. finished behind him and, at certain point, looked to be on the red whereas Sagan was still relatively cool.

I think you're doing Sagan a dis-service there. This is a guy that has finished 3rd in Amstel Gold, has won mountainous stages at the Tour de Suisse and several very hilly stages at the Tour de France. If he's on form and really going for it, he is a very good climber. Better than Kennaugh imo.

this, Sagan started out in cyclocross and MTB, not road, he could always go uphill, ok, so the Willunga hill climb at TDU in Adelaide Tour Downunder is more a berg, not a col, but he was going ahead of everyone in January in 2009. He could always climb. see also: tony martin's first High Road TdF. He went uphill almost aswell as Gerdeman, before he focused on becoming the rouleur/chrono man.

and yes, they all dope. And Thomas power output on track is better than Wiggins is it not? And he weighs about what Wiggins did when he won TdF. And he saw how much GBP came ito Wiggo's coffers when he won. He wants some of that action too. Phenomenal talent too. Armstrong could not climb high mtns neither at Motorola.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Aicar most definitely isn't disappointing. It turned a guy who couldn't crack the top 130 of gts and told journos he didn't think he could ride another tour de france, into one of the greatest riders in a generation.

Wiggins? or Armstrong? I think you mean Wiggins.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

well, there are too ways to improve w/kg - the marginal one, losing weight while keeping most ot the watts, or the Tourminator one, keeping or even increasing the weight while gaining HUGE amount of watts. Hard to say which one is more embarrassing, but at least Sagan won't repeat this day by day.

He should just lose those 10-15 kg but continue to be able to do 420 watts for ~30 minutes. Then he could hold the wheel of Big 4 in the mountains.

about 5 years ago, Claudi Cecchini, the other major doping doctor, said that he thought Cancellara could win TdF if he lost 6kg. This was well before Wiggins transformation.

He also said, Edvald Boasson Hagen.

I think, if Cancellara, Boasson Hagen, and Tony Martin all got on this AICAR/GW&lipotropin cockatail, they could win in July. I would be most bullish about Tony Martin after his first tdf with High Road. He could go uphill, and go uphill heavy, like Big Mig.

I also think Peter Sagan is about 3lbs lighter than last year. Make him 12lbs lighter, then I think we have a GT winner.

AICAR and GW and lipotropin have transformed the GT game imo.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

I remember watching Jalabert transition into mountain goat GC contender. It was like looking at a square circle. "That can't be." And of course it couldn't without epo - a categorical impossibility.

I can square Sagan's effort more easily. Not saying he's clean, but I can at least conceive that it's plausible.

For one, the field at this years ToC is dire. It's not like he finished one minute down on Pantani. Secondly, it was one climb. Not a GT stage with four or five big climbs the day after another stage with four or five big climbs. Thirdly, Sagan has real pedigree - probably enough to make one ridiculous effort on one climb in a crap race.

However, given the off scale clinic happenings this year, I can totally see why people bookmark this as further evidence.

thisthisthisthis, Sagan like Boasson Hagen. never just a flatlander. like Martin. Like Cancellara, all go well when the road tilts up

 

[argyllflyer]

Sagan's ability when the road ramps up is difficult to judge simply because he often soft-pedals such days (though not always - Tour de Suisse 2013 stage 3 for example http://www.procyclingstats.com/race/Tour_de_Suisse_2013_Stage_3_Meiringen) as GC is of no concern to him. Daniel Friebe made a reference a month or two to his lack of professionalism since moving to Monaco - always out, not training properly. Motivation to win a race and a better mentality can explain this without resorting to the usual clinic hyperbole.

 

[Alexandre B.]

Re:

top sprinter
top tt'er
top classic specialist
top high mountains HC climber

you see my point now?

We are in the clinic, I know that well, but I assure you can still try to make sense when it's come to racing.
"top high mountains HC climber"... And Kris Boeckmans is the better sprinter in the world !

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

Re: Re:

top sprinter
top tt'er
top classic specialist
top high mountains HC climber

you see my point now?

Who is that?

Sean Kelly?

 

[winkybiker]

Re:

It's not really terribly surprising that two guys who have been ripping in Europe all spring, finishing top 5 or 10 or 2 in monuments, are beating this weak-sauce field.

Yeah, I mean let's be real. Sagan managed to only just beat Tyler Farrar in a sprint. Hardly noteworthy.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Sagan's ability when the road ramps up is difficult to judge simply because he often soft-pedals such days (though not always - Tour de Suisse 2013 stage 3 for example http://www.procyclingstats.com/race/Tour_de_Suisse_2013_Stage_3_Meiringen) as GC is of no concern to him. Daniel Friebe made a reference a month or two to his lack of professionalism since moving to Monaco - always out, not training properly. Motivation to win a race and a better mentality can explain this without resorting to the usual clinic hyperbole.

Since you don't usually post in the clinic, we don't know exactly where you stand on these things, but is it correct to assume you think doping doesn't really happen much (only losers like Galimzynov and some tour of costa rica riders) and doesn't help very much either?

 

[nayr497]

Saw two interviews with Sagan where he was directly asked about how his boss would feel with the wins. He said his teammates rode well, that's it.

Oh, and Monaco. Is that where he met the new gal?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re:

Saw two interviews with Sagan where he was directly asked about how his boss would feel with the wins. He said his teammates rode well, that's it.

Oh, and Monaco. Is that where he met the new gal?

The "new gal" is Slovakian I believe, so I doubt it.

 

[red_flanders]

Re:

top sprinter
top tt'er
top classic specialist
top high mountains HC climber

you see my point now?

This makes no sense.

• Not a top TT'er. Won a prologue length TT in a second-rate race with a weak field. At sea level.
• Not a top sprinter. A good sprinter, yes. Squeaked by Tyler Ferrar, who no one would call a "top sprinter" when he had to in order to secure a Stage Race win. By an inch.
• Not a top HC climber. Lost only 45 seconds on a climb with a highly questionable HC rating against second-rate competition.
• Definitely a top classic specialist.

He's been a supremely talented rider since youth, and is doing about what was expected. Sometimes a bit less than expected. This was certainly a gutsy performance, and he climbed better than anyone expected.

I would be surprised if he were clean, but this performance offers me little I didn't already know about Sagan. Except that when he's pissed, he appears to give it all he has.

 

[Beech Mtn]

Re:

Saw two interviews with Sagan where he was directly asked about how his boss would feel with the wins. He said his teammates rode well, that's it.

Oh, and Monaco. Is that where he met the new gal?

If CVV is to be believed, "the new gal" is also a cyclist.

I saw two interviews after AToC stages, where Sagan appeared not to understand the question being asked "what do you have to say to your team owner?" - it appeared he only caught the word "team," and took the opportunity just to talk about teammates' work, dedicate win to Bodnar, etc. I don't think he understood what they meant, and they never mentioned Oleg by name.

 

[proffate]

Re: Re:

• Not a top HC climber. Lost only 45 seconds on a climb with a highly questionable HC rating against second-rate competition.

An hour and half of climbing, 26.7 miles and 7,259ft of gain. Last 3 miles is 10%. What's your definition of HC?

 

[TomasC]

Re:

...
Oh, and Monaco. Is that where he met the new gal?

New gal? You mean his wife*? They are together since at least 2013, met in Slovakia. She's not a cyclist, although there are a lot of her photos in Specialized outfit and on Spec bikes on the internet. University degree marketing specialist I think.

*I may be jumping into conclusions here, but Sagan himself wrote on twitter that his wife came to support him at the TOC. It may well be that he just used the word "wife" incorrectly.

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

• Not a top HC climber. Lost only 45 seconds on a climb with a highly questionable HC rating against second-rate competition.

An hour and half of climbing, 26.7 miles and 7,259ft of gain. Last 3 miles is 10%. What's your definition of HC?

You may want to check your stats. Nevertheless, to answer the question, the problem I have is the several sections at or around or below 5%. It's certainly long enough, it's just not clearly consistently steep enough to qualify. The last section clearly is. The first long part isn't.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Re: Re:

• Not a top HC climber. Lost only 45 seconds on a climb with a highly questionable HC rating against second-rate competition.

An hour and half of climbing, 26.7 miles and 7,259ft of gain. Last 3 miles is 10%. What's your definition of HC?

You may want to check your stats. Nevertheless, to answer the question, the problem I have is the several sections at or around or below 5%. It's certainly long enough, it's just not clearly consistently steep enough to qualify. The last section clearly is. The first long part isn't.

Whether or not it's HC is debatable, but it's hardly an easy ride.

Comparison with Ad'H:

http://www.socalvelo.com/sub/mount_baldy_road.htm

Alpe d'Huez Comparison: If you start at mile 3.83 (near the intersection with Mountain Ave at the top of the reservoir), the climb is 8.8 miles with an average grade of 7.6%. Alpe d'huez is 8.8 miles with a 7.9% average.

This is about the closest thing in Southern California that you can compare in length and steepness to Alpe d'Huez. However, if you start at mile 5 near the first tunnel, the climb is 7.6 miles with an 8.2% average. The last few miles of this climb are more dificult than most of Alpe d'huez

 

[red_flanders]

Re: Re:

• Not a top HC climber. Lost only 45 seconds on a climb with a highly questionable HC rating against second-rate competition.

An hour and half of climbing, 26.7 miles and 7,259ft of gain. Last 3 miles is 10%. What's your definition of HC?

You may want to check your stats. Nevertheless, to answer the question, the problem I have is the several sections at or around or below 5%. It's certainly long enough, it's just not clearly consistently steep enough to qualify. The last section clearly is. The first long part isn't.

Whether or not it's HC is debatable, but it's hardly an easy ride.

Comparison with Ad'H:

http://www.socalvelo.com/sub/mount_baldy_road.htm

Alpe d'Huez Comparison: If you start at mile 3.83 (near the intersection with Mountain Ave at the top of the reservoir), the climb is 8.8 miles with an average grade of 7.6%. Alpe d'huez is 8.8 miles with a 7.9% average.

This is about the closest thing in Southern California that you can compare in length and steepness to Alpe d'Huez. However, if you start at mile 5 near the first tunnel, the climb is 7.6 miles with an 8.2% average. The last few miles of this climb are more dificult than most of Alpe d'huez

Most observers have traditionally said that Alpe d'huez wouldn't be an HC climb if it didn't have major climbs before it, like the Madeline and the Galibier or other monsters.

 

[glassmoon]

Re: Re:

Saw two interviews with Sagan where he was directly asked about how his boss would feel with the wins. He said his teammates rode well, that's it.

Oh, and Monaco. Is that where he met the new gal?

If CVV is to be believed, "the new gal" is also a cyclist.

I saw two interviews after AToC stages, where Sagan appeared not to understand the question being asked "what do you have to say to your team owner?" - it appeared he only caught the word "team," and took the opportunity just to talk about teammates' work, dedicate win to Bodnar, etc. I don't think he understood what they meant, and they never mentioned Oleg by name.

Yeah. I had the same feeling that he only caught the word "team"

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Re: Re:

Most observers have traditionally said that Alpe d'huez wouldn't be an HC climb if it didn't have major climbs before it, like the Madeline and the Galibier or other monsters.

Yep, like I said, debatable.

Was just providing a reference to a much better known but roughly equivalent climb.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I have a feeling he's smarter than he comes across when it comes to English, and is astute in his responses to journalists seeking polemic as long as it's not someone from their country and nothing to do with crazy, inexplicable performances.