how long before Sagan trips the tripwire

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

I need to lose some weight, where do I get this losing-lots-of-weight-without-losing-any-power-phenomenon drug?

There is very intense interest and $$$ in the pharmaceutical interest in weight loss medication. The few that have ever come out on the market have been fairly disappointing both in results and in unacceptable, even fatal toxicities. The market is definitely very interested in a drug that could safely help people lose weight with a tolerable side effect profile.

It would not take a great leap in imagination to think that "those in the loop" (the LanceArmstrongs of this decade) might have access to investigational medications that have yet to make it to market. Either by diversion or by deliberate leaks from a pharma company I can see this type of thing happening.

Tony Verow MD

Aicar most definitely isn't disappointing. It turned a guy who couldn't crack the top 130 of gts and told journos he didn't think he could ride another tour de france, into one of the greatest riders in a generation.

 

[roundabout]

Re:

Using Dr. Ferrari's formula, Sagan climbed at 5,68 w/kg (according to @ammattipyoraily).

Assuming a weight of 75 kilos, that's 426 watts over 25 minutes. Does not seem too ridiculous, in my opinion.

Maybe he should use actual data instead when it's available

http://www.strava.com/segments/gmr-to-the-lifts-803304

But as mentioned in the main forum, do keep going. It's funny reading the excuses.

 

[BigMac]

What are the odds Sagan pulled some sort of Tony Martin up the climb, to some extent, where his musculature may have helped to counter his climbing deficiencies. All in all he doesn't have Martin's aerobics, but it might have given him a slight help on those last six kilometers. I'm in now way trying to justify what happened, which I've said was, at the very least, baffling. But he road his own tempo most of the time, could something like that happen with him?

Again, at the end of the day he still dropped the climbers, so the whole thing is what it is.

 

[SKSemtex]

Such an idiot this Sagan. Staying clean for monuments and eating "tons of EPO" to win TOC. LOL. I love you boys.

 

[red_flanders]

It's not really terribly surprising that two guys who have been ripping in Europe all spring, finishing top 5 or 10 or 2 in monuments, are beating this weak-sauce field.

 

[Irondan]

Such an idiot this Sagan. Staying clean for monuments and eating "tons of EPO" to win TOC. LOL. I love you boys.

It's clear that it was Oleg Tinkov that motivated Sagan to eat 'tons of EPO', to win TOC. We can congratulate Oleg for his fine bit of encouragement, in the absence of Bjarn Riis. Thanks Oleg!!

 

[SkyTears]

Such an idiot this Sagan. Staying clean for monuments and eating "tons of EPO" to win TOC. LOL. I love you boys.

who said he was clean for monuments? probably your wishful thinking

 

[Mr.White]

Such an idiot this Sagan. Staying clean for monuments and eating "tons of EPO" to win TOC. LOL. I love you boys.

who said he was clean for monuments? probably your wishful thinking

Yeah, total opposite from Geraint Thomas, no?

 

[SkyTears]

Such an idiot this Sagan. Staying clean for monuments and eating "tons of EPO" to win TOC. LOL. I love you boys.

who said he was clean for monuments? probably your wishful thinking

Yeah, total opposite from Geraint Thomas, no?

i don't see Thomas challenging Cavendish on flat sprints

 

[Mr.White]

Such an idiot this Sagan. Staying clean for monuments and eating "tons of EPO" to win TOC. LOL. I love you boys.

who said he was clean for monuments? probably your wishful thinking

Yeah, total opposite from Geraint Thomas, no?

i don't see Thomas challenging Cavendish on flat sprints

He was always a top sprinter, don't see your point?

 

[SkyTears]

top sprinter
top tt'er
top classic specialist
top high mountains HC climber

you see my point now?

 

[Rollthedice]

Re:

top sprinter
top tt'er
top classic specialist
top high mountains HC climber

you see my point now?

Who is that?

 

[Mr.White]

Top HC mountains climber?! He lost 50 sec to Alaphillipe, that's hardly a top climber. He didn't came second in Paris-Nice MTF for Christ sake!

 

[mrhender]

Re:

top sprinter
top tt'er
top classic specialist
top high mountains HC climber

you see my point now?

What is your point?

That Sagan is doping?

Not really surprising to most here..

And how do you define "top" btw?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Neither Mount Baldy nor La Croix de Chaubouret can really be considered HC mountains, though finishing so high up on each is out of character and above expectations for Sagan AND Thomas.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

Neither Mount Baldy nor La Croix de Chaubouret can really be considered HC mountains, though finishing so high up on each is out of character and above expectations for Sagan AND Thomas.

I think Thomas's performance was way more ridiculous. He beat Van Garderen, Aru, Spilak, Bardet, Peraud, Kelderman and several other very, very good climbers. If he beat just one or two fair enough - it may be that they were having an off day or weren't close to top form - but to beat so many was not normal.

Sagan put in a monster effort and just edged out Zubeldia and Gesink, but there was very little else of note behind him.

 

[BigMac]

The accurate perspective is not look at the time he lost to Alaphilippe, whom everyone acknowledges put in a *** performance as well, but the time he lost to Sergio Henao, twenty seconds only. Also that Gesink, Zubeldia, ten Dam, Kennaugh, a few of the locals, noticeably better climbers than Sagan on any situation. finished behind him and, at certain point, looked to be on the red whereas Sagan was still relatively cool.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

The accurate perspective is not look at the time he lost to Alaphilippe, whom everyone acknowledges put in a *** performance as well, but the time he lost to Sergio Henao, twenty seconds only. Also that Gesink, Zubeldia, ten Dam, Kennaugh, a few of the locals, noticeably better climbers than Sagan on any situation. finished behind him and, at certain point, looked to be on the red whereas Sagan was still relatively cool.

I think you're doing Sagan a dis-service there. This is a guy that has finished 3rd in Amstel Gold, has won mountainous stages at the Tour de Suisse and several very hilly stages at the Tour de France. If he's on form and really going for it, he is a very good climber. Better than Kennaugh imo.

 

[roundabout]

What do Amstel Gold 1km climbs have to do with a rider's ability in the high mountains?

Or the stages in the Tour de France where he sprinted against noted climbers like Cancellara for the win?

Seriously.

 

[DFA123]

Re:

What do Amstel Gold 1km climbs have to do with a rider's ability in the high mountains?

Or the stages in the Tour de France where he sprinted against noted climbers like Cancellara for the win?

Seriously.

Quite a lot. The climbs in Amstel Gold are still long enough that they are an aerobic rather than anaerobic effort. Therefore a rider needs to have high w/kg and power at vo2 max to do well in Amstel Gold. Considering there is a fairly strong correlation between power at Vo2 max and power at threshold (i.e. power needed to climb high mountains), most riders that do well at Amstel Gold can handle themselves in high mountains.

 

[Taxus4a]

I dont like Sagan too much, but this threat is amazing for me...although he is now with Tinkoff...

I dont know what a rider must do or how must be his evolution to be considered clean, if people consider that some people is clean...
I understand for same people is hard to belive about froome or Wiggins,...is perfectly possible, but I understand some reactions. but with Sagan? He has a suspicious year, he was in amateur very promising but he didnt get very big result, and suddenly, with 20 years and in the best cycling level he is getting good result and performances, but I have heard about Sagan potential and interest months before...

Of course, if people thing that everybody dope, he must be doped. wining or not.

Everything is not just suspicious, but prof, AMAZING AND SAD. To win old, to stop wining, to be all the years with the best in hard stages in California (mount Baldy is not so hard)

Yes, I am amazed as well than Sagan won to Gesink in the mountain, but he did the same in the ITT, and Sagan won a real mountain stage in Swiss, Mont baldy has big rest.

he showed a big level all the year, to win or not dont Change the level.

 

[BigMac]

Re: Re:

What do Amstel Gold 1km climbs have to do with a rider's ability in the high mountains?

Or the stages in the Tour de France where he sprinted against noted climbers like Cancellara for the win?

Seriously.

Quite a lot. The climbs in Amstel Gold are still long enough that they are an aerobic rather than anaerobic effort. Therefore a rider needs to have high w/kg and power at vo2 max to do well in Amstel Gold. Considering there is a fairly strong correlation between power at Vo2 max and power at threshold (i.e. power needed to climb high mountains), most riders that do well at Amstel Gold can handle themselves in high mountains.

It may be the opposite, climbers able to do well in Amstel. One can come up with a pletora of good performers in Amstel who are nobodies on the mountains.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

What do Amstel Gold 1km climbs have to do with a rider's ability in the high mountains?

Or the stages in the Tour de France where he sprinted against noted climbers like Cancellara for the win?

Seriously.

Quite a lot. The climbs in Amstel Gold are still long enough that they are an aerobic rather than anaerobic effort. Therefore a rider needs to have high w/kg and power at vo2 max to do well in Amstel Gold. Considering there is a fairly strong correlation between power at Vo2 max and power at threshold (i.e. power needed to climb high mountains), most riders that do well at Amstel Gold can handle themselves in high mountains.

It may be the opposite, climbers able to do well in Amstel. One can come up with a pletora of good performers in Amstel who are nobodies on the mountains.

I'm not sure about that. Remember, we're just talking a one-off mountain finish here on a fairly easily ridden stage race with a weak field. Not the third week of a highly competitive Tour de France.

If you look at the top 10 in Amstel this year: Kwiatkowski, Valverde, Matthews, Rui Costa, GVA, Gallopin, Alaphillipe, Gasparotto, Paterski, Gilbert. I could see all of those putting in a ride similar to (or most probably better than) what Sagan did if they were highly motivated and trying to win the overall jersey. Perhaps with the exception of GVA, but only because he never really tries to challenge in races like that so I've got no idea if he would be capable or not.

 

[doperhopper]

so the Great Transformation for 2016 will be (once Aldirto Clentador retires) 10 kilo lighter Sagan storming the Tour, sailing past frenetically pedalling Vrooomie looking in disbelief on the powermeter

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

Gesink on mt baldy 412w.

So Sagan, who's also heavier, must have ridden some pretty awesome wattage