How to improve the first week of the Tour?

[Lequack]

Re:

Libertine, how accessible is women's racing? I live in the U.S and have never seen a race broadcast

They don't want to broadcast it because then people might actually watch.

 

[Leinster]

Go back to 3,2,1 points for the 4th Cat KOM (and increase the higher categories similarly). Give the break something worth chasing after. If there’s only 1 point available, there’s nothing up the road for a 5-man break to chase.

 

[Finn84]

As long as I have followed Tour, I think 2008 had the best 1st week.

Stage 1 was for puncheurs. Stages 2 and 3 for sprinters (break won stage 3 though). Then 30k TT on stage 4, flat on stage 5 and Massif mountaintop on stage 6. Another Massif stage on stage 7 but that without finish on top. Flat on stage 8 and Pyrenees on stage 9 and 10, that time first rest day on Tuesday. However, the second week was much worse than usual as the transition stages between Pyrenees and Alps were pretty much flat.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Re:

Those that are in the bottom 50 of GC should be cut going into Week 2.

lol this would actually be an interesting way to reduce the peloton (instead of smaller teams). Just take out the last 5 of GC each day. Then there would surely be more breaks haha

 

[movingtarget]

They have to cater for all types of riders including sprinters but I wish they would do away with the TTT or maybe have it only every five or six years.

 

[Tim Booth]

There are a couple of things we could do though: firstly, not broadcast a 231km flat stage from start to finish and even more importantly not watch a 231km flat stage from start to finish.

Exactly. Broadcasting flat stages in its entirety is the worst decision ever. The thing is, we know we shouldn't watch, but most people watching are just occasional cycling fans or sports fans in general. They don't know. They will say 'oh look, the Tour is on', obviously unaware that nothing is going to happen for hours, then starve from boredom and just don't watch anymore the next time. And this includes (young) potential cycling fans that will never become one because of this.

Needless to say this is a serious problem.

the effect on TV audiences can already be seen
http://twitter.com/vrdaam/status/1017769518238662661

 

[DFA123]

Re:

They have to cater for all types of riders including sprinters but I wish they would do away with the TTT or maybe have it only every five or six years.

The problem is the sprinters are more than catered for. They have 8-10 stages every year which are nailed on to be sprints. Really there should only be 2 or 3 nailed on sprints, with another 2 or 3 which are 50-50 between sprint and breakaway.

Sprint stages these days are just too predictable, and too boring to constitute nearly half of the race.

 

[perico]

Nothing wrong with a short TT in the first week as well. In 89 they had a prologue, 40 KM TTT, and 60 KM TT all in the first 5 days. You could fit do like the Vuelta- use the TTT as a prologue and throw a 20 KM hilly TT over the Mur de Bretagne.

 

[Koronin]

Also classics stages in a GT don't get raced the same way as a classics race does. The way it was explained was in a classics race you go all in because you've got a couple of days to recuperate after, whereas with a stage race you can't go all in for any one stage because you have to make sure you have something left for the next day.

 

[Lance Armstrong]

Re: Re:

They have to cater for all types of riders including sprinters but I wish they would do away with the TTT or maybe have it only every five or six years.

The problem is the sprinters are more than catered for. They have 8-10 stages every year which are nailed on to be sprints. Really there should only be 2 or 3 nailed on sprints, with another 2 or 3 which are 50-50 between sprint and breakaway.

Sprint stages these days are just too predictable, and too boring to constitute nearly half of the race.

Agree. What wants to watch 8 pancake flat sprint stages? 4-5 is enough, let the sprinters work for the rest.

 

[Leinster]

Re:

Nothing wrong with a short TT in the first week as well. In 89 they had a prologue, 40 KM TTT, and 60 KM TT all in the first 5 days. You could fit do like the Vuelta- use the TTT as a prologue and throw a 20 KM hilly TT over the Mur de Bretagne.

The best road stage so far this year was the Mur. Why would you turn that into a TT?

 

[Escarabajo]

Put a Tourmalet ITT on the first stage and disqualify all riders outside the permitted time.

 

[gregrowlerson]

As has been mentioned, I don't see why you can't start in the mountains, at least during some editions. Stages 1 and 2 in the Pyrenees or Alps (or Massif Central, Jura etc) can not only mean separation of the riders on GC and less chaos in resulting stages, but a good use of weekend stages. Why not have all of the main mountain stages on 1, 2, 8, 9, 14 and 15 (20 could be the forgotten traditional long ITT)? You wouldn't have the queen stage on the opening weekend (I don't think that anyone wants to see less than ten riders within five minutes after two stages), but a mountain time trial and a stage with 2 or 3 category 1 or 2 climbs would provide nice gaps, and ensure that GC riders cannot only peak for later in the race. In fact this is also why there would still be suspense even in the event of a Chris Froome doing a PSM on opening weekend, because the valid question would be, has he peaked too early (like Yates at the Giro)?

Ten years ago I could not have forseen that the organisers would mostly do away with the final weekend ITT, so I don't see it as impossible for them to do away with the tradition of minimally important GT stages on opening weekend.

 

[Unchained]

After watching today's comply blood bath circus U would suggest that they hold the team time trial in the second week..also if they are to have the pan flat stages before conducting a classic there should be more intermediate sprints..w time.5-10-20-30 second bonuses..there should also be 1 or 2 random sprints announced daily..20-30-40 seconds.

 

[FilipeFD]

InterGiro, oops, i mean InterTour

 

[Leinster]

I think a lot of people on this thread would have loved the 1992 route. But it would surely be a Froome procession today as much as it was an Indurain cake walk back then.

Thing about that race was, there was no dominant sprinter/train (Thierry Marie, of all people, won a bunch sprint into Tours, of all places), there was a GC-contending nutjob in Chiapucci willing, able, and determined to attack from any and everywhere, and there was also the factor of some genuine competition for top 10 spots (Roche, Fignon and Delgado all having last big efforts).

 

[Finn84]

2020 Grand Depart being in Nice would make it easily possible to have one mountain stage early. Even with the possibility of going to the Alps for one day, then having some flat before the Pyrenees before returning to the Alps for the final part.

Next year starts in Brussels. Two stages are known (with medium-length TT). Just hoping for the good Ardennes stage for the first week and maybe targeting to reach Massif Central at the end of week 1.

 

[hayneplane]

A 40km ITT with nearly half on cobbles would be fascinating and allow rouleurs to gain big time whilst minimising the damage of machanicals as team cars would be right behind the riders.

I would also love to see two mountain stages with one being a uniclimb like PSM and the other a rolling moyenne Montagne with lots of cat 2 and cat 3 climbs that is hard to control for teams and allows a variety of riders to compete for glory.

Ideally the whole route would have 2 sprint finishes in week 1, 1 in week 2, 1 during week 3 and a final 5th sprint in Paris.

 

[yaco]

The Vuelta seems to get it right - They have two to three hilly/semi mountainous stages in the first week.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re:

The Vuelta seems to get it right - They have two to three hilly/semi mountainous stages in the first week.

Do they really though? I mean, the mur stages in the Vuelta are like the flat stages in the Tour: They're only interesting for the last 5-10 minutes.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

The Vuelta seems to get it right - They have two to three hilly/semi mountainous stages in the first week.

Do they really though? I mean, the mur stages in the Vuelta are like the flat stages in the Tour: They're only interesting for the last 5-10 minutes.

No, they are not the same. Firstly they ensure that we actually get a break of more than 2 riders and that isnt totally doomed and secondly, they establish a GC early on.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Re: Re:

The Vuelta seems to get it right - They have two to three hilly/semi mountainous stages in the first week.

Do they really though? I mean, the mur stages in the Vuelta are like the flat stages in the Tour: They're only interesting for the last 5-10 minutes.

No, they are not the same. Firstly they ensure that we actually get a break of more than 2 riders and that isnt totally doomed and secondly, they establish a GC early on.

Flat stages in the Vuelta also have more than two riders because it's easier to win stages in the Vuelta than in the Tour so that's not an effect of the mur stages. Also, I don't see how establishing a GC make the stages less boring. To me, a mur sprint is as boring as a flat sprint (of course there are cases where this is not true but on the other hand, there are also cases where the mur finishes are even more boring than flat finishes).

Edit: My initial post didn't really answer the post I quoted now that I read it again. Some more hilly stages would probably be a good idea, but then again we saw how stage 5 played out this Tour.

 

[YavorD]

I think the Tour 2015 had the right formula. All types of stages into the week one (well maybe a stage with a 2 cat. climb somewhere would be better).
Also 2014 had a good week one I think. This year you dont have a single stage that could ensure gaps (apart from the TTT which is shite) apart from crashes. And yesterdays stage which is way too deep into the race. IMO. Midweek s "hilly stages" with stage 5 3-5% climbs and Mur de Bretagne - hardly hard enough to make any gap.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Actually there have been plenty of "those" stages in the Vuelta, where it's 200km and baking hot and the only man to get the call to go up the road is a random Andalucía-Caja Sur domestique. There's a few of those guys I remember well solely for that purpose - José António López Gil, Jesús Rosendo (who also got biopassport sanctioned and cleared due to haemorrhoids) and Javier Chacón are three that spring immediately to mind.

The thing is, the early Vuelta stages on climbs that are too tough to not open up a bit of GC time but not so much that it throws major contenders way down are good - the problem with the Vuelta is that then the proper mountain stages are usually all along similar lines. The Tour doesn't have the opportunity to do a climb like that more significant than the Côte de Cadoudal or the Mûr-de-Bretagne in a route like this year's admittedly, but 2008 managed to have a 25km TT early on and the Super-Besse stage which put the puncheur finish off the back of a more serious climb, so it worked out alright. If you can't open things up with a climb then, yes, a 20-30km ITT in the middle of week 1 would be ideal.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Here's a question for those in the know. To what extent do the host towns of the first week subsidize the cost of the mountain stages without a proper finish in town? Meaning, the route designers know what makes a proper race, but they are also there to raise cash from the bidding process to pay for much of the race. (Am I mistaken in this at all? Please correct me).

The solution to me isn't about getting the tour organizers to realize flat stages are boring racing, but getting them to realize that an exciting stage is better for the ASO business than a flat stage. TV ratings and viewer attrition aren't part of that equation (TV ratings are hard to measure, it is the broadcaster that cares about viewership primarily).

So in that lens, a combative classification, something they could sell sponsorship for, is one solution, for example (probably as a team classification, something that wouldn't need a jersey). Or if you want a hilly stage, get companies to sponsor the climbs so ASO is more interested in more of them ("The Mur de Bretagne, catagory 3 climb brought to you by Skoda"). Or if you don't want to sell out that much, let Skoda plaster their ads all over the pavement and boards (which I know is already done) to a high degree. Or make a minor prize for fastest ascents of each climb. Sell the official start of the climb as a thing for sponsors to buy ("Tissot presents our official start of the Mur de Bretange"), sell the prize name and sell the podium ceremony background poster space. Something to make the ASO more intere$ted in a course with more features.

To incentivize teams to get in a break, maybe change the prize purse. Double the prize if it is won by the day's breakaway. Or double WT points for a breakaway win.

Overall, the route itself isn't the root of the problem. It is that the ASO doesn't care if it is boring.