How to improve the first week of the Tour?

[Libertine Seguros]

In the old days of course there were multiple intermediate sprints, and they once gave a jersey, like you often see in smaller races. And there were the unofficial primes in towns the race passed through, which gave prizes but were not official Tour awards. The progressive sprint-weighting of the maillot vert competition has worked in some respects - Proudhomme was concerned that it wasn't fit for purpose in 2009-10 when points gathered in intermediates was meaning a dominant sprinter was still unable to get the jersey - and the single intermediate sprint is often quite a source of entertainment, but it's generally uncontested by whatever break has escaped and then the battle is for the remaining points from the bunch - I think they were hoping that the péloton would pull back the break so as to compete for the intermediate, but instead they give points a long way down so the bunch settles in behind, only ensuring that the breakaway is small enough that there's still points left for them after the break has gone through, which in turn makes the break more easy to catch.

It's been a long time since we had a metas volantes competition in a GT. It would be interesting to see how it worked as obviously people don't really fight for the Traguardo Volante in the Giro, you don't get podium time or anything out of it. In smaller races a rider will just fight out the breaks on the first day, get the lead in it then protect it either with teammates or going in a second break themselves, but over a 3 week race managing the classification will be much harder, and probably require the same kind of dedication to aggression as when Fabian Wegmann got the Giro KOM in 2004, being in the break of the day on 9 occasions. The other option would be the Intergiro; this would stop the subjectivity of the combativity prize, and incentivise breakaways not just to form but to maximise their time gain.

The best option perhaps would be the Activity classification, like the old Eastern Bloc amateur days. This was a fantastic competition that if I remember rightly classed all summits and sprints equally - you would get 4, 2 and 1 points for the first 3 across intermediate sprints, the same for the first 3 across mountain summits, the same for the first 3 across the line at the end of the day - but this used to come with a bonus point for finishing in a group of 10 or fewer that finished more than 90 seconds ahead of the next group on the road, with an additional point for every 30 seconds thereafter. This not only incentivised moves to collaborate to fight to the finish but also counterattacks as you might not be able to get the péloton to battle through to the finish but by getting into a chasse-patate you could deny points to the riders up the road. It was a combination of a combativity prize and a combinada, which rewarded riders for making the race interesting.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

In the old days of course there were multiple intermediate sprints, and they once gave a jersey, like you often see in smaller races. And there were the unofficial primes in towns the race passed through, which gave prizes but were not official Tour awards. The progressive sprint-weighting of the maillot vert competition has worked in some respects - Proudhomme was concerned that it wasn't fit for purpose in 2009-10 when points gathered in intermediates was meaning a dominant sprinter was still unable to get the jersey - and the single intermediate sprint is often quite a source of entertainment, but it's generally uncontested by whatever break has escaped and then the battle is for the remaining points from the bunch - I think they were hoping that the péloton would pull back the break so as to compete for the intermediate, but instead they give points a long way down so the bunch settles in behind, only ensuring that the breakaway is small enough that there's still points left for them after the break has gone through, which in turn makes the break more easy to catch.

It's been a long time since we had a metas volantes competition in a GT. It would be interesting to see how it worked as obviously people don't really fight for the Traguardo Volante in the Giro, you don't get podium time or anything out of it. In smaller races a rider will just fight out the breaks on the first day, get the lead in it then protect it either with teammates or going in a second break themselves, but over a 3 week race managing the classification will be much harder, and probably require the same kind of dedication to aggression as when Fabian Wegmann got the Giro KOM in 2004, being in the break of the day on 9 occasions. The other option would be the Intergiro; this would stop the subjectivity of the combativity prize, and incentivise breakaways not just to form but to maximise their time gain.

The best option perhaps would be the Activity classification, like the old Eastern Bloc amateur days. This was a fantastic competition that if I remember rightly classed all summits and sprints equally - you would get 4, 2 and 1 points for the first 3 across intermediate sprints, the same for the first 3 across mountain summits, the same for the first 3 across the line at the end of the day - but this used to come with a bonus point for finishing in a group of 10 or fewer that finished more than 90 seconds ahead of the next group on the road, with an additional point for every 30 seconds thereafter. This not only incentivised moves to collaborate to fight to the finish but also counterattacks as you might not be able to get the péloton to battle through to the finish but by getting into a chasse-patate you could deny points to the riders up the road. It was a combination of a combativity prize and a combinada, which rewarded riders for making the race interesting.

Yeah some of those things were good especially for the devoted cycling fan who understood it all. But if anything Prudhomme is going in the other direction. Viewing ratings have been dropping so they are opting for gimmicky stages like the short mountain stage, the cobbles are good viewing for the fans but many of the riders could do without them. He is trying things to keep the public interested. I have actually enjoyed the race so far even the TTT which I never usually like much. Some fans expect too much Prudhomme is more about making the race relevant and watchable not so much about making it interesting for the cycling fan. I like the way all three grand tours are a little different and with the ASO also running the Vuelta it's interesting to note the differences especially with the mountain stages. Since 2009 or so the Vuelta has probably been the most entertaining of the three races overall. Coming late in the season it is also a bit trickier for the riders and usually the competition is more open.

 

[rghysens]

Well, the first week has been settled for a few days now. We've had some reasonably entertaining finals in Alpine stages and a stage that would have fit well in the first week.

There are several reasons to the boring first weeks, and some of them have nothing to do with the course.

1) Discipline seems to be the new order. In the past riders were attacking left and right to be in the break. Now (and also the past 2 years or so) it seems that barely anyone (except those of Direct Energy and Wanty) wants to be in the break, even going so far as dropping back to the peloton when accidently in the break. If we want to encourage wild, untamed racing back, we should get rid of earpieces (allthough the same teamorders can be given before the race)

2) The average pro cyclist nowadays is much fitter than his colleagues in the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's, while being less "fitter" than those of the second half of the 90's and 00's. Cyclists don't tire as easy as those in the proverbial antiquity, so it's less easy to create gaps in flat stages (also because flat stages aren't 220-300km long anymore) and they seemingly haven't the abundant power reserves of those in the 1990's and 2000's, so they have to be careful with using their energy. Furthermore it's easier to monitor the energy use (of yourself and the breakaway) with the use of powermeters. To get rid of that control, powermeters should be banned in races.

3) The syntheses of the two previous points lies in the strength of teams. Last year (and in the first stages this year) 1 or 2 riders of QS, DD and some other sprinters' teams were easily able to control the break, while still being able to set up a sprint train, and sometimes even have 1 or 2 riders for mountainous stages or GC (f.e. Jungels and Alaphilippe with QS). If teams were forced to make choices in their line-up, we would have a more varied race (i think), but therefore teamsizes have to be reduced to 6 men.

4) Wealthy team are able to give strong riders a higher wage than less wealthy teams, even going so far as in buying as much strong riders as possible and suffocate the peloton. They can also do other things with their money, which can't be discussed here. But a salary cap would help things a bit

Then there's the course, of course.
1) TTT benefit teams that are already strong (i.e. wealthy), so it would be good to ban TTT's.

2) If we want to create more action during flat(tish) stages, there should b more at stake. A few points for the KOM jersey doesn't seem to work, so why not put a lot more bonifications on the road. I don't think there should be 1 or 2 sprints with much more time, there should be a lot more sprints. In stage 5 f.e. you could have a bonification sprint on top of the first 3rd cat climb and then 1 or 2 in between the climbs. Same for the 6th stage: a boni sprint on top of the 1st Mur, and then 2 or so before the final climb. Exactly the same for stage 9: bonification sprints in between all the cobbled sector (so there would be more to press through after each cobbled sector). In totally flat stage you could have a few "golden kilometers" spread out along the road, and not just one in the final. F.e. the first stage of the 2019 Tdf could have boni's on top of the Muur and Bosberg, then a golden kilometer 20km further up the road, another one 30km furhter, maybe some more bonifications on climbs in the final and another GK with 20km to go. There should be no (or only very few) bonifications on the road in mountain stages, however.

 

[Tim Booth]

Re:

Next year starts in Brussels.

On Sunday 7 July 2019, a team time trial could be on the programme in the streets of Brussels.
Nathan Haas from Team Katusha - Alpecin has this suggestion...
http://twitter.com/NathanPeterHaas/status/1025447523010453504
Christian Prudhomme has yet to reply....

 

[vedrafjord]

Re: Re:

Also, I don't see how establishing a GC make the stages less boring.

It means if a GC guy loses time it frees up his whole team to go for stage wins, as opposed to having them sitting in the bunch defending a 10th place.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Also, I don't see how establishing a GC make the stages less boring.

It means if a GC guy loses time it frees up his whole team to go for stage wins, as opposed to having them sitting in the bunch defending a 10th place.

Exactly, you have 3-4 teams animating the first x antal stages up until the first GC showdown because every team still believe in their GC-rider/sprinter. And those teams are the wildcard teams - next year the wildcard teams will be more relevant with Greipel and Coquard, who prob both will get wild cards, so the teams willing to do anything will be even less.

 

[RedheadDane]

Re:

...cheers!......Mark L

Bit late here, but do you mean for the viewer; to make watching boring racing a bit more enjoyable?
Or for the riders; to make racing a bit more interesting?

 

[MatParker117]

Re: Re:

Also, I don't see how establishing a GC make the stages less boring.

It means if a GC guy loses time it frees up his whole team to go for stage wins, as opposed to having them sitting in the bunch defending a 10th place.

Exactly, you have 3-4 teams animating the first x antal stages up until the first GC showdown because every team still believe in their GC-rider/sprinter. And those teams are the wildcard teams - next year the wildcard teams will be more relevant with Greipel and Coquard, who prob both will get wild cards, so the teams willing to do anything will be even less.

Isn't the term "wildcard" a bit of an oxymoron at this point?