how to stop cheating

[Anonymous]

Complete the following sentence.


I would stop cheating and catch the blood doping by........


btw... seeing how this forum is big on blanket condemnation and doomsaying i don't imagine this thread with get much traction.

 

[nobody]

I would stop cheating and catch the blood doping by........
retesting all old samples for EPO

All old riders caught will be forced to quit cycling by a 2 years bans.

 

[Anonymous]

I would stop cheating and catch the blood doping by........
retesting all old samples for EPO

All old riders caught will be forced to quit cycling by a 2 years bans.

And institute tests such as this: http://www.acsm-msse.org/pt/re/msse...ZDp6Ft9PnFyyGzNV!-514211921!181195628!8091!-1

And institute a lifetime ban on first offense.

And strip any prize money won by said rider for the past year from the team.

And (well, I have to go get my pie, but I will pontificate further when I get back.

Hey jackhammer, why not just admit you are purely a doping apologist who doesn't care whether you hero doped or not and just be done with the whole thing.

 

[luckyboy]

Take startline blood values

Or, measure total body hemoglobin volume (no. of red blood cells in the body)


And give out life bans.

 

[ElChingon]

Canceling the Tour de France/Giro d'Italia/Vuelta a Espana the moment any racer tests positive during any part of that year. Or any Classics race. No race equates to no results no winner no prizes no nothing.

 

[cycutza]

Canceling the Tour de France/Giro d'Italia/Vuelta a Espana the moment any racer tests positive during any part of that year. Or any Classics race. No race equates to no results no winner no prizes no nothing.

What reads as absolutely ridiculous is spot on imho, maybe a bit over the top but spot on. Its unfair but as soon as 'clean' riders in the peloton (I'm sure there is some) start to suffer financially I think things would change. Make them responsible for change as much as everyone else. Once coaching a basketball game I took two players off the court as punishment for missing a training. I left three of the players that attended training on the court for 5 minutes to get hammered by the opposition. Needless to say, no-one missed another training.

 

[luckyboy]

Rider positive = Team ban ?

 

[hfer07]

I would stop cheating and catch the blood doping by........

Dropping a bomb at UCI headquarters while LA is buying off his way in cycling...

 

[Anonymous]

What reads as absolutely ridiculous is spot on imho, maybe a bit over the top but spot on. Its unfair but as soon as 'clean' riders in the peloton (I'm sure there is some) start to suffer financially I think things would change. Make them responsible for change as much as everyone else. Once coaching a basketball game I took two players off the court as punishment for missing a training. I left three of the players that attended training on the court for 5 minutes to get hammered by the opposition. Needless to say, no-one missed another training.

Or put the onus on the teams and exclude any team with a doping positive from any race within their tier for 12 months. In fact, reduce their license to the next lowest level, and introduce even greater testing with much lower tolerances on them. That way, attracting sponsors would not be completely impossible, and the racers who weren't busted could still race.

It would reduce the number of riders on each team because of costs for doping control, but it would also most likely be the greatest force of pressure on the rider to ride clean. Also, a team could suspend a rider for any reason and be allowed to replace that rider with another immediately. (except in tours of course) Positives in any tour would result in immediate expulsion of the entire team.

 

[Blayney]

Life time ban from the sport and 10 hard years in the Salt Mines.

 

[elapid]

btw... seeing how this forum is big on blanket condemnation and doomsaying i don't imagine this thread with get much traction.

You're more cynical than the rest of us! And blanket condemnation - nothing from Coyle is worth any salt because of some bad calculations and Kohl's word on anything regarding doping is not worth the paper it is printed on because a reporter misquoted him.

I would stop cheating and catch the blood doping by........
1. Drug testing to be done by an independent body, such as WADA. The UCI have shown a woeful history and have a conflict of interest.
2. Total body hemoglobin volume (as luckyboy said, and as will BigBoat and Alpe)
3. Power profiling (impracticalities aside)
4. I am not a fan of increasing the lengths of suspensions for individual riders, but increased responsibility on the team with subsequent financial or non-racing penalties.
5. Significant rewards for true whistleblowers - only those that name names and can support their claims with strong evidence.
6. Support work with drug companies developing oxygen carriers and gene therapies to include readily identifiable markers to make detection of these substances easier.
7. Relax the cutoff on positive versus negative for doping tests.

 

[harlond]

Life time ban from the sport and 10 hard years in the Salt Mines.

If this works, we can eliminate murder and theft by increasing the penalties for those.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Already answered numerous times in numerous threads with numerous links that you either ignored, or dismissed.

 

[BroDeal]

I would get rid of gullible fans who lack critical thinking skills. Then the riders and the governing body would no longer think they could get away with laughable excuses and diversions.

 

[ElChingon]

I would get rid of gullible fans who lack critical thinking skills. Then the riders and the governing body would no longer think they could get away with laughable excuses and diversions.

There go the Hog followers

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

I like it! Better than my answer.

Okay, to be more honest. I pretty much agree with Elapid. I'd add that I wouldn't announce when testing was implemented, leaving riders to only know they can't dope. This way when something like CO blood volume testing was used, a lot of riders wouldn't know and be caught if doping. I'd also look into using moles, or work with a caught doping physician giving amnesty in exchange of infiltrating the medical aspect of the teams, including working with police to flood the market with fake doping drugs that are hyper-easy to detect. Items like that. I'd also work with governments to insure that PED doping is harshly illegal and criminally punishable.

 

[Snake8]

I would offer, I dont really give a poo pills to all cycling fans....

Seriously though - look at how every other sport handles doping - badly. Cycling really does do more than any other sport that I am aware of. If its not enough, then maybe its too much? Because clearly its not working right?

Most of you guys that are so anti-doping: do you think there will EVER be a CLEAN peleton? That's as naive and lacking in critical thinking as anything else I've seen on these forums.

Maybe we should not be talking about doping per se, what all you guys really hate is that there is not a level playing field and that people are forced to use drugs (cheating) to compete at the highest level.

I dont have an answer that doesnt involve killling the UCI, a rider's union and completely independent (fab) testing - not WADA. Maybe we just need to accept that cycling is, was and always will be full of cheats.

Maybe we should admire the cheaters for being smart enough to jig the system and get away with it for so long?

Who's the real bogeyman here all you anti-dope zealots? Maybe its you! ;-)

 

[Escarabajo]

- Life bans unless they squeal.
- WADA testing. No UCI. Maybe with WADA testing those so called 50 riders would have been out by now.
- Team bans. Time and money.
- Better testing. I don't know much about it but it has been written endlessly in this forum. Tons of information in this forum.
- I like what Alpe said, do not inform when a test is going to be implemented.
- Retroactive testing. They actually can do it now, but they don't want to. Again UCI the problem.

 

[lostintime]

How to stop cheating?

There is no end.

As long as there is the competition, there will be cheating. One feeds the other.

 

[Escarabajo]

I would offer, I dont really give a poo pills to all cycling fans....

Seriously though - look at how every other sport handles doping - badly. Cycling really does do more than any other sport that I am aware of. If its not enough, then maybe its too much? Because clearly its not working right?

Most of you guys that are so anti-doping: do you think there will EVER be a CLEAN peleton? That's as naive and lacking in critical thinking as anything else I've seen on these forums.

Maybe we should not be talking about doping per se, what all you guys really hate is that there is not a level playing field and that people are forced to use drugs (cheating) to compete at the highest level.

I dont have an answer that doesnt involve killling the UCI, a rider's union and completely independent (fab) testing - not WADA. Maybe we just need to accept that cycling is, was and always will be full of cheats.

Maybe we should admire the cheaters for being smart enough to jig the system and get away with it for so long?

Who's the real bogeyman here all you anti-dope zealots? Maybe its you! ;-)

Snake, how about reducing doping?. I have accepted doping in the peloton and most everyone also, but I don't want the 70%-80% number that we think it is. I really don't know what the number is but it looks to be higher than we expect it to be.

 

[Anonymous]

I dont have an answer that doesnt involve killling the UCI, a rider's union and completely independent (fab) testing - not WADA. Maybe we just need to accept that cycling is, was and always will be full of cheats.

No

Maybe we should admire the cheaters for being smart enough to jig the system and get away with it for so long?

No

Who's the real bogeyman here all you anti-dope zealots? Maybe its you! ;-)

No, that would be you and people like you.

0 fer 3...dang..

 

[Anonymous]

You're more cynical than the rest of us!

It's already done better than I thought it would.

I would stop cheating and catch the blood doping by........


1. Drug testing to be done by an independent body, such as WADA. The UCI have shown a woeful history and have a conflict of interest.

Bingo!. the appearance of conflict of interest can no longer be tolerated even if UCI is being vigilant.
Is this a political power issue? Is that what keeps it from happening?
However, it won't appease some people here.

2. Total body hemoglobin volume (as luckyboy said, and as will BigBoat and Alpe)

done on suspects? is that how it works?
why would anybody resist this idea? what's the downside?

3. Power profiling (impracticalities aside)

What is probably the best way to see who's performance is not possible without cheating is probably the most impractical.
Especially if you want to do it in a way where it could be used, not just to point out the offender, but to actually santion them.
How about using meters alone to help point people out?

4. I am not a fan of increasing the lengths of suspensions for individual riders, but increased responsibility on the team with subsequent financial or non-racing penalties.

I'm also not in favor of off with their heads kinds of penalties. I think most teams know how dire things have become. There are some teams right now that probably won't survive another doping scandal. Didn't Barloworld come close to losing their sponsor last year over it? Now with money getting hard to come by I don't think it will take much for some teams to go under.

5. Significant rewards for true whistleblowers - only those that name names and can support their claims with strong evidence.

How about a system that would give riders a way to come forward and give information about rule breakers in secret?
someone like kohl is not a whistleblower. His retirement tells me that he knows that he'd be worthless as a clean rider. Hence, the donkey thing.

6. Support work with drug companies developing oxygen carriers and gene therapies to include readily identifiable markers to make detection of these substances easier.

This is where I see someone like Lemond or Hinnault as having a real impact. Ambassadors that represent the sport and it's fans that can lobby corporations and even governments.
Maybe it's something that fans of the sport might want to support financially as well.

7. Relax the cutoff on positive versus negative for doping tests.

Whew, I'm worn out.

 

[Anonymous]

I like it! Better than my answer.

Okay, to be more honest. I pretty much agree with Elapid.. I'd also look into using moles, or work with a caught doping physician giving amnesty in exchange of infiltrating the medical aspect of the teams, including working with police to flood the market with fake doping drugs that are hyper-easy to detect. Items like that. I'd also work with governments to insure that PED doping is harshly illegal and criminally punishable.

They are not only good ideas, I wouldn't be surprised to find that some of them are already in use.

thanks for not sticking to your original flip post.

 

[BroDeal]

There are not only good ideas, I wouldn't be surprised to find that some of them are already in use.

I would because I--uh, like--follow the news. The reason Alpe is suggesting them is because they are not in use.

 

[elapid]

In regards to total hemoglobin volume:
done on suspects? is that how it works?
why would anybody resist this idea? what's the downside?

Check out the following abstracts: pretty easy to include total hemoglobin volume in the biological passport by the looks of things.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18981937?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17614021?ordinalpos=3&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10755280?ordinalpos=5&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2691814?ordinalpos=6&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

For those interested in the effects of human growth hormone in cyclists, which is undetectable, check out this abstract:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17512232?ordinalpos=4&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Lastly, this is a review article on blood doping from 1989. Yes, 20 years ago. They new a $hit load about it then, imagine what they know now.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2691004?ordinalpos=7&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum