I Smell a "Rat"

Jun 23, 2009
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Escarabajo said:
Am I being paranoid or do I smell a “Rat” inside the Astana camp? I don't like how Contador is looking, but he may well be bluffing us. Maybe he is not being given the right medications.

Discuss
What do you mean how he is looking? His performance being suspect or the actual way he looks?
 
Turd Ferguson said:
What do you mean how he is looking? His performance being suspect or the actual way he looks?
In the time trial. I did not like how he looked. And loosing the wheel in the cross wind stage. Again this could be just me being paranoid about it but I wanted to know how others feel about it. I don’t agree with what others are saying on the other side of the forum that Berto looked great. But I can be mistaken. I hope I am.
 
Jun 23, 2009
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I think he has looked good. Time trialing has steadily improved the last few years and the stage 1 TT was an amazing ride by him. This guy used to be a skinny climbing specialist and now he can rock the TT so that is why people are most likely raving about his form.

Reports say he was on his way up to the front when the split happend and found himself in no mans land and went back to the pack. That may have been the decision of the DS at the time or he didn't want to waste his energy near the end of a stage when things almost always come back together. He could have wasted a lot of energy for a few more seconds but a few seconds should not be a problem for him to get back in the mountains.

I think he is looking fantastic but is keeping his cool.
 
May 13, 2009
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Escarabajo said:
Am I being paranoid or do I smell a “Rat” inside the Astana camp? I don't like how Contador is looking, but he may well be bluffing us. Maybe he is not being given the right medications.

Discuss
:confused::confused: explain or delete this thread
 
May 13, 2009
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I was one of the guys saying that Bertie looked fine today (on the dark side of this forum). He seemed to consistently ride 2 spots behind LA in the train, and he regularly made reasonable pulls.

I couldn't see who caused the split yesterday, and the vid which was posted wasn't conclusive. So, as far as I'm concerned, the jury's still out there on who caused the split.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if a certain week-three-bag shows clotting. Someone might make a phone call so someone else fails to maintain proper storage temperature for a certain item. Wo knows?
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Cobblestones said:
I was one of the guys saying that Bertie looked fine today (on the dark side of this forum). He seemed to consistently ride 2 spots behind LA in the train, and he regularly made reasonable pulls.

I couldn't see who caused the split yesterday, and the vid which was posted wasn't conclusive. So, as far as I'm concerned, the jury's still out there on who caused the split.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if a certain week-three-bag shows clotting. Someone might make a phone call so someone else fails to maintain proper storage temperature for a certain item. Wo knows?
and the 35 injections per stage become placebos. But Conta does not know it. The only one who does is the Astana docs Swiss bank account manager, a transfusion err, transfer from come Cayman Islands account for 100k euro.
 
indurain666 said:
:confused::confused: explain or delete this thread
I tried my best to explain above ( English is not my native language). So please read again and maybe you will see something between the lines.

Turd thanks for you answer. For some reason I thought something was wrong inside the Astana Camp.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Escarabajo said:
I tried my best to explain above ( English is not my native language). So please read again and maybe you will see something between the lines.

Tud thanks for you answer. For some reason I thought something was wrong inside the Astana Camp.
dont worry about controlling the team, you need to control the docs.

They are the most important. The Hog can blackmail Dirty Bertie by threatening a positive control.

The blood transfusions are crucial. If his bag goes missing or poured down the drain, he is stuffed. I could make some good money on Betfair if I had this inside information on the transfusion schedules.
 
Jun 23, 2009
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Escarabajo said:
Tud thanks for you answer. For some reason I thought something was wrong inside the Astana Camp.
I do agree with you on that point - it does seem a bit weird around Astana right now...maybe the non-stop LA/Contador rivalry in the media has bombarded me so much that I can no longer think for myself :)
 
Wonder if Berti is smart and cagey enough to pull a Joe Papp and cover his back with documentation, if you know what I mean? If I were in his shoes, I sure would. It may be a scotched earth way of thinking, but if you're getting burned...

When I heard "Rat" I was thinking "mole". That being, somewhere, on some team, there is a mole going around finding how who's connecting to whom, who'd doping what and with whom, and they're going to turn over the info to the gendarmes (screw the UCI or ASO) and all hell is going to break loose with a raid and scandal that's bigger than Festina.

The other possibility is bugging of hotel rooms, or even team buses, under a court order in order to catch dopers. After Sarkozy came out the other day saying the Tour needed to be clean, this wouldn't surprise me all that much.

Anyone else think this is possible, even if unlikely?
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Wonder if Berti is smart and cagey enough to pull a Joe Papp and cover his back with documentation, if you know what I mean? If I were in his shoes, I sure would. It may be a scotched earth way of thinking, but if you're getting burned...

When I heard "Rat" I was thinking "mole". That being, somewhere, on some team, there is a mole going around finding how who's connecting to whom, who'd doping what and with whom, and they're going to turn over the info to the gendarmes (screw the UCI or ASO) and all hell is going to break loose with a raid and scandal that's bigger than Festina.

The other possibility is bugging of hotel rooms, or even team buses, under a court order in order to catch dopers. After Sarkozy came out the other day saying the Tour needed to be clean, this wouldn't surprise me all that much.

Anyone else think this is possible, even if unlikely?
The French have some stringent laws concerning doping right? In that respect, it would really not be of any surprise that some people are being followed a little closer than they normally would. Perhaps even more border controls where the TdF would pass. When was Schleck's dad or some family member stopped for a while to search his car?

Bugging buses and hotel rooms, I think that could be a step too far, and would probably a violation of privacy laws, unless there is some big terrorism reasoning that would warrant such a treatement. I believe privacy laws are a lot stricter in the EU, compared to the US.
 
Alpe d'Huez said:
Wonder if Berti is smart and cagey enough to pull a Joe Papp and cover his back with documentation, if you know what I mean? If I were in his shoes, I sure would. It may be a scotched earth way of thinking, but if you're getting burned...
I really hope everything goes back to normal for Contador this Friday. There is no way I will believe that he is being dropped by Lance on the last climb. Nothing so far this year has shown me that he would falter. But if he does we have to believe that something else is going on with the meds.

Maybe the term "Rat" does not fit here. I should have used the term "backstabbed". But certainly if I am Contador I'd do what you recommend Alpe. I was thinking more on the terms of the “Landis Toilet Affair”. But of course, not quite like that.
 
May 13, 2009
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Bala Verde said:
Bugging buses and hotel rooms, I think that could be a step too far, and would probably a violation of privacy laws, unless there is some big terrorism reasoning that would warrant such a treatement. I believe privacy laws are a lot stricter in the EU, compared to the US.
Of course bugging without reason is a violation. However, you can get a permission (and I don't know who grants that in France) and there doesn't need to be terrorism involved. ;)
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Cobblestones said:
Of course bugging without reason is a violation. However, you can get a permission (and I don't know who grants that in France) and there doesn't need to be terrorism involved. ;)
I bet! But would anti-doping be sufficient reason to violate privacy laws? I think the extent of it is something that has been laid down in the law, decided by te French Parliament, and is quite possibly limited to issues concerning national security and public health... Sarkozy would probably not overstep his authorities in such a futile matter as anti doping. But who knows:rolleyes:
 
May 13, 2009
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Bala Verde said:
I bet! But would anti-doping be sufficient reason to violate privacy laws? I think the extent of it is something that has been laid down in the law, decided by te French Parliament, and is quite possibly limited to issues concerning national security and public health... Sarkozy would probably not overstep his authorities in such a futile matter as anti doping. But who knows:rolleyes:
Surely not that limited. Doping is I think a criminal offense in France. Team sanctioned doping could very likely justify a certain invasion of privacy. It would be best to have someone familiar with French law to answer this definitely.
 
Keep in mind that Italian NAS used wiretaps and hidden cameras under a court order to watch Carlos Santuccione in the Oil For Drugs scandal. So I'd say it's definitely not out of the question.

One problem NAS had though is that there was a leak, and Santuccionie getting inside information - though not all of it, and he was still caught.
 
In the 2004 Tour Floyd announced he was going to leave USPS to be the leader of his own team, and Lance (and JB?, forget who) when it came time to transfusion time mid-race, poured Floyd's blood down the toilet to punish him for it.

Or so the story goes.
 
Jun 15, 2009
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Contador

I read this tread (+ "the dark side of this forum") and wonder were you pipo get all that information. Coz i would like to do some research myself. I think i am pretty close to the doping stuff, but not yet full informed. I know of all the affairs (Festina, Rumsas, Oil for Drugs, David Walsh, JV/FA, Uni Freiburg, Fuentes) but i would like to know how riders do doping now that Kohl works together with the french labs....

Anyway, i dont think French authorities would surveil team buses or rooms, coz here in europe (i am from germany) to be allowed that, it takes a ton of time to be allowed. At that time the tour will be alredy over. So i think the only way out is, as someone posted, to have a "rat" inside astana and go direct to police, and then there would be a raid. Yeah that would be bigger then Festina.

If Contador dont make that 19 seconds on friday something is REAL WRONG with Epo-Lance (saw him on giro, he coulld not keep up with the leaders on any hills after Stage 4). So what you pipo think he is using, since Epo is no more "safe" and blood doping takes too much of insiders who could speak out? Is Lance this strong to keep them ALL quiet?

Alpe d'Huez said:
In the 2004 Tour Floyd announced he was going to leave USPS to be the leader of his own team, and Lance (and JB?, forget who) when it came time to transfusion time mid-race, poured Floyd's blood down the toilet to punish him for it.

Or so the story goes.
It was both of them Lance and JB (as said by JV)
 
May 26, 2009
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Alpe d'Huez said:
Wonder if Berti is smart and cagey enough to pull a Joe Papp and cover his back with documentation, if you know what I mean? If I were in his shoes, I sure would. It may be a scotched earth way of thinking, but if you're getting burned...

When I heard "Rat" I was thinking "mole". That being, somewhere, on some team, there is a mole going around finding how who's connecting to whom, who'd doping what and with whom, and they're going to turn over the info to the gendarmes (screw the UCI or ASO) and all hell is going to break loose with a raid and scandal that's bigger than Festina.

The other possibility is bugging of hotel rooms, or even team buses, under a court order in order to catch dopers. After Sarkozy came out the other day saying the Tour needed to be clean, this wouldn't surprise me all that much.

Anyone else think this is possible, even if unlikely?
I'm sure Contador is a fine rat. Puerto has proven how he can handle a dope case.
 
Mar 18, 2009
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Taking up what Alpe mentioned, I think it is only a matter of time before someone decides that if he is going down then he'll take a lot of others with him. Cell phones, cameras, and digital recording devices are so small and ubiquitous these days, it would be easy to gather the info. What the riders have against them is that the young are naive. They usually don't think that disaster can befall them, so few would think to give themselves some protection.

Some of the most valuable information we already have came from numerous phone recordings and an internet chat session.

I wonder what Lemond's lawyers will dig up.
 
Jul 7, 2009
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Smell a Rat

blackcat said:
dont worry about controlling the team, you need to control the docs.

They are the most important. The Hog can blackmail Dirty Bertie by threatening a positive control.

The blood transfusions are crucial. If his bag goes missing or poured down the drain, he is stuffed. I could make some good money on Betfair if I had this inside information on the transfusion schedules.
Don't all you guys realise how privileged you are to have such insight and coverage of the pinnacle of world cycle racing - The Tour de France. Most of you hide behind a "nom-de-plume". If you are so interested in "medecine" - GO AND BE A DOCTOR and let us true fans of the sport concentrate on the nuances of cycle RACING.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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doping is more than a nuance Nigel. My post was quite meta, you have to have a sense of humour coming in here, each post I make is replete with sardony and irony. You should be able to detect that. If we cant have a winner on bread and water, the very least we can have is a sense of humour about what is going on in professional sport, and specifically this sport.

Seems you are going through the initial stages of grief, with confronting this dark truth lol. Shooting the messenger, will only make your bike courier bill more expensive ;)
 

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