I Smell a "Rat"

[Alpe d'Huez]

Nigel - One of my best friends is an MD/Ph.D working in genetics. Mrs. Alpe went through a year of organic chemistry, plus a year of bio, and biochem, and was pre-med at one point (actually, pre-vet to be honest*). Her best friend is a nurse with a degree in bio, and a lot of A&P studies including hematology. I'm also over 40 and have a good career already. Being fascinated with how this applies to our sport doesn't mean I should go to medical school and stay silent. It's a web forum for goodness sakes!

If Contador dont make that 19 seconds on friday something is REAL WRONG with Epo-Lance (saw him on giro, he coulld not keep up with the leaders on any hills after Stage 4). So what you pipo think he is using, since Epo is no more "safe" and blood doping takes too much of insiders who could speak out? Is Lance this strong to keep them ALL quiet?

Yes, he can. At that level, there's no other way. Just a handful of special helpers, well paid, and some very quiet help, and it's a very, very tight circle. But keep in mind, Lance isn't the only one.

I don't think there is quite the team administered doping there was 5 years ago, I think what we're seeing now is more like Kohl's description of Lotto, or atmospheres of comfort of doping and looking the other way like what's happened at Quickstep, Rabo, etc. I've cynically stated in the past that some teams anti-doping programs are to make sure the athletes don't pee + at controls. I'm not literally saying that in 2009 teams are doping their riders all with this in mind. But I do believe that some teams, perhaps those I, and you others have mentioned, turn a blind eye and have that in mind at their controls, that it's possible.

Taking up what Alpe mentioned, I think it is only a matter of time before someone decides that if he is going down then he'll take a lot of others with him. Cell phones, cameras, and digital recording devices are so small and ubiquitous these days, it would be easy to gather the info.

Maybe. Remember, Joe tried it, and no one seemed to care, though it did help sink Leogrande, that wasn't the key bit. Joe actually took a much bigger beating, even from amateurs and rec cyclists, than any interest from even officials in what he was uncovering.

That said, enough of the tide may be turning to where what happened to him won't be the norm. There is such backlash against dopers, and acceptance of those that confess, and we are seeing more riders speak out against doping, that enough of a fissure in the omerta is opening to make it more plausible.

*FYI, did you know you can buy drugs for animals/pets that are the same exact medicine as they are for humans, but when purchasing for humans you need a physician's prescription?

 

[Cobblestones]

I read this tread (+ "the dark side of this forum")

You've it upside down. This is the 'enlightened' part of the forum. The people in the dark are the ones on the OTHER side.

 

[Escarabajo]

Seems you are going through the initial stages of grief, with confronting this dark truth lol. Shooting the messenger, will only make your bike courier bill more expensive

+1............

If Contador dont make that 19 seconds on friday something is REAL WRONG with Epo-Lance (saw him on giro, he coulld not keep up with the leaders on any hills after Stage 4). So what you pipo think he is using, since Epo is no more "safe" and blood doping takes too much of insiders who could speak out? Is Lance this strong to keep them ALL quiet?

Blood doping like Kohl described. Somehow I feel that inside the Astana camp it is more organized than what Kohl described, but that is just my gut feeling.

 

[Cobblestones]

If Contador dont make that 19 seconds on friday something is REAL WRONG with Epo-Lance (saw him on giro, he coulld not keep up with the leaders on any hills after Stage 4). So what you pipo think he is using, since Epo is no more "safe" and blood doping takes too much of insiders who could speak out? Is Lance this strong to keep them ALL quiet?

Oh, we have a nice thread of speculative medicine here. Be Dr. Ferrari for three weeks in July.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

You've it upside down. This is the 'enlightened' part of the forum. The people in the dark are the ones on the OTHER side.

Yeah, but sometimes i wish i would have swallowed the blue pill instead of the red one (You know what i mean?).

Now its too late, so i want to know as much as possible of what i "waste" my time with I dont mean this negativ, i love cycling, but i hate doping. Not because of what pipo do to their bodies (that is their decision), but because we get cheated. I just remember Peter Winnen now, who once said the results of the past 10 years have no meaning (since Epo came up).

I did sports myself (1st division soccer league as kid, fifth or so division baseball league in germany as grown-up, i had to give it up because i was not too talented to be honest and because i got injured with a herniated disc) but we never did PED`s. So i love sports and do a lot of research now. My goal is to get as close as possibile to the inner circle. I have no more heroes since Carl Lewis, Jim McMahon and Jan Ullrich stepped down. Seems i love the craziest Doping-Sports

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Oh, we have a nice thread of speculative medicine here. Be Dr. Ferrari for three weeks in July.

Yeah i was reading it all last night. I learned something more. Its like Paul Koechli once said, since the docs took over cycling, its not the same anymore.

How crazy can that be, taking over 100 products to riders. There must be so much counter effects, that it may even have a NEGATIVE innfluence on the riders performance. Wish we would be back in the old days when clean riders had a chance (Mottet) or at least could stay in the Pro-Peloton (Bassons > by the way, he and Simeoni is the reason why i realy dislike Armstrong)

 

[Cobblestones]

Yeah, but sometimes i wish i would have swallowed the blue pill instead of the red one (You know what i mean?).

All too well. I'm a scientist myself. So there was no real choice for me which pill to take.

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Yeah, but sometimes i wish i would have swallowed the blue pill instead of the red one (You know what i mean?).

Now its too late, so i want to know as much as possible of what i "waste" my time with ...

Completely understand.

It's kind of like drinking whiskey. The first time you try it, it completely burns, and you feel sick and wonder why in the hell anyone would do this. But after it settles, you feel a little enlightened.

Pretty soon, it's regular trips to the saloon.

Belly up to the bar, my friend!

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

All too well. I'm a scientist myself. So there was no real choice for me....

My physician friend is this way. His first year in med school his report was on probability ratios of heavy steroid use and oncology in cases. One of his test subjects was the data from Lyle Alzado's case, among many others.

Listening to this guy talk about all this is interesting, not because he spins magnificent tales. Quite the opposite actually. It's interesting because of how matter of fact and completely emotionally detached he is about everything, down to the last bloody detail. It's just medical science to him, nothing more.

 

[Cobblestones]

My physician friend is this way. His first year in med school his report was on probability ratios of heavy steroid use and oncology in cases. One of his test subjects was the data from Lyle Alzado's case, among many others.

Listening to this guy talk about all this is interesting, not because he spins magnificent tales. Quite the opposite actually. It's interesting because of how matter of fact and completely emotionally detached he is about everything, down to the last bloody detail. It's just medical science to him, nothing more.

Yes, emotional attachment to dearly held 'truths' is the bane of the scientist. The worst cases are those when someone tried for years to work on a hypothesis which then is shown wrong by another group. I've seen a few cases like that in my career. It's particularly funny to follow when the first guy is an established, well-respected scientist, while the ink on the second guy's Ph.D. thesis hasn't dried yet. That stuff can get nasty.