If Contador rides the Giro, will Wiggins still ride it?

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If Contador rides the giro, will wiggins still ride it?

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Can't help but feel that Wiggins is ridiculously underrated on these boards. The guy wins Paris-Nice, Romandie, Dauphne, Tour and Olympic time trial in the one season! I get that he's kinda boring, but the bloke was a bit of a superman in 2012...

I don't see Contador just wiping the floor with him at the Giro. If we see the Alberto from Tour 09 and Giro 11 then yes, he would be the clear favourite, but can he recapture that form? He was greatly impressive that he returned from the break to win the Vuelta, but he wasn't dominant.

I could see Bradley gaining at least ninety seconds on Alberto in the long time trial, and it might not be so easy to take that back in the mountains. Long range attacks might put the Brit under pressure, but he may also have a pretty strong team to assist if required. Certainly Contador is the favourite for mine if he races and focuses on the Giro, but not too far ahead of Wiggins.

And how does Nibali have more votes than Wiggins?!
 

airstream

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18-Valve. (pithy) said:
I don't think Contador will start, but regardless... it's a bit much to assume that Wiggins will be the (second) best climber in the race. Sure, if you account for consistency and take the Sky train - Froome in particular - for granted, then yes, he was the second best climber in the Tour, but that was on a medium mountain course... ASO even advertised it as such.

Basso on 2010 form would certainly be able to drop both Wiggins and Nibali. Don't forget that Scarponi was a better climber than Nibali in the 2011 Giro, either. Nibali is not some guy that will easily win the Giro if the big guns aren't there.
Oh, how differently we look at that... :p On a serious note, I do not understand WHY Wiggins is not able to defend strongly in a time trialist manner say as Andreas Kloden did in his best years. He will not compete with Contador in explosiveness. Wiggins' style may seem lazy, inflexible, disgusting (quite relevant despriprion, considering how he is estimated), but it is just a visual thing. If he is on form, he will be ride like a train himself even at 8-9% sections.
 
gregrowlerson said:
Can't help but feel that Wiggins is ridiculously underrated on these boards. The guy wins Paris-Nice, Romandie, Dauphne, Tour and Olympic time trial in the one season! I get that he's kinda boring, but the bloke was a bit of a superman in 2012...
The Tour was a telephoned victory. The route suited him very well. Evans' sudden "form crisis" and the absence of Contador and Schleck certainly didn't hurt, either.

The other races you mention are perfect for him. TT-heavy races, sadly.
 

airstream

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18-Valve. (pithy) said:
The Tour was a telephoned victory. The route suited him very well. Evans' sudden "form crisis" and the absence of Contador and Schleck certainly didn't hurt.

The other races you mention are perfect form. TT-heavy races, sadly.
I would agree, if Wiggins would godlessly have given away the time on the climbs, but he was strong there too.

The man got over Angliru among the best while being not in the best shape. Why should we belittle his climbing skills?
 
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airstream said:
Oh, how differently we look at that... :p On a serious note, I do not understand WHY Wiggins is not able to defend strongly in a time trialist manner say as Andreas Kloden did in his best years. He will not compete with Contador in explosiveness. Wiggins' style may seem lazy, inflexible, disgusting (quite relevant despriprion, considering how he is estimated), but it is just a visual thing. If he is on form, he will be ride like a train himself even at 8-9% sections.
kloden never won a gt and was never even close(although he should've won 2006)
 
airstream said:
I would agree, if Wiggins would godlessly have given away the time on the climbs, but he was strong there too.

The man got over Angliru among the best while being not in the best shape. Why should we belittle his climbing skills?
He can handle those "single climb" stages just fine. Verbier 2009 proved he could do it.

Anyway, I expect Wiggins to be up there in the first mountain stages of the Giro. I think he'll have the pink jersey for quite some time.
 
18-Valve. (pithy) said:
He can handle those "single climb" stages just fine. Verbier 2009 proved he could do it.

Anyway, I expect Wiggins to be up there in the climbs in the first mountain stages of the Giro. I think he'll have the pink jersey for quite some time.
if he's anywhere near his top form he'll start stage 19 in pink (barring a huge L'Aquila-style breakaway). That's for sure. AC or not.
 

airstream

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18-Valve. (pithy) said:
Yup.

Stage 19 will be a nice leg softener for stage 20. I expect him to lose the Giro in the Tre Cime stage. Make sure you'll have your popcorn ready. ;)
I think climbs themselves can't flip Wiggins drastically. Neither Giau, nor Trecime. Only numerous attacks from different guys can do that. What is more they need to begin to check Wiggins out on the Giau already. To expect Wiggins not to endure Trecime properly is very conceitedly. If Contador will be here, it is very likely indeed. If not, I don't see it happening. Are Nibali, Sanchez or Scarponi attacking climbers with successfull experience? no, no and no.
 
18-Valve. (pithy) said:
The Tour was a telephoned victory. The route suited him very well. Evans' sudden "form crisis" and the absence of Contador and Schleck certainly didn't hurt, either.

The other races you mention are perfect for him. TT-heavy races, sadly.
By Evan's form crisis you mean illness. As for Wiggins being weak over multiple climbs I don't see it. Schleck had no chance of beating Wiggins on last year's route. As for Contador, he certainly would not have bested Wiggins in the TTs. It would have been a fascinating battle between them.
 
airstream said:
I think climbs themselves can't flip Wiggins drastically. Neither Giau, nor Trecime. Only numerous attacks from different guys can do that. What is more they need to begin to check Wiggins out on the Giau already. To expect Wiggins not to endure Trecime properly is very conceitedly. If Contador will be here, it is very likely indeed. If not, I don't see it happening. Are Nibali, Sanchez or Scarponi attacking climbers with successfull experience? no, no and no.
wait a sec. If nothing happens on Giau, or on the Stelvio, Wiggo wins, that's a fact. No way he'll lose more than a minute or so on the Tre Cime alone.
 

airstream

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Eshnar said:
wait a sec. If nothing happens on Giau, or on the Stelvio, Wiggo wins, that's a fact. No way he'll lose more than a minute or so on the Tre Cime alone.
Well, seemingly nothing will happen on Stelvio. They will get over it like pedestrians. Giau is big chance though early solo is always fraught with big risk.
 
movingtarget said:
By Evan's form crisis you mean illness.
I don't believe that to be the (only) reason, but sure, that's what they said in the media.

Schleck had no chance of beating Wiggins on last year's route. As for Contador, he certainly would not have bested Wiggins in the TTs. It would have been a fascinating battle between them.
Yeah. Last year's very much atypical course was an atrocity, although we've had other soft routes in the recent past. This one was clearly made for Wiggins, though, because the soft mountain stages were "balanced" out with two long TTs. It couldn't be more obvious.

I hope ASO is done with that now. But I could see them doing it again, especially next year. A British winner is very good for business, apparently. It's bad for the sport, though, if it means that the fans have to watch a TT-heavy borefest.


airstream said:
I think climbs themselves can't flip Wiggins drastically. Neither Giau, nor Trecime. Only numerous attacks from different guys can do that. What is more they need to begin to check Wiggins out on the Giau already. To expect Wiggins not to endure Trecime properly is very conceitedly. If Contador will be here, it is very likely indeed. If not, I don't see it happening. Are Nibali, Sanchez or Scarponi attacking climbers with successfull experience? no, no and no.
Yes, it will have to be an all out war. And there will be other guys, such as Basso, Cobo, Pellizotti, Hesjedal. And a couple pure climbers, too, who could come in handy.
 
Eshnar said:
if he's anywhere near his top form he'll start stage 19 in pink (barring a huge L'Aquila-style breakaway). That's for sure. AC or not.
Surely if he's already survived that many stages he can also survive the last stage right :confused: Iow he wins the giro if he is "anywhere near his top form". I disagree.
 
Jun 18, 2012
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18-Valve. (pithy) said:
The Tour was a telephoned victory. The route suited him very well. Evans' sudden "form crisis" and the absence of Contador and Schleck certainly didn't hurt, either.

The other races you mention are perfect for him. TT-heavy races, sadly.
Yes, last year's Tour route was perfect for a rider like Wiggins. It also helped that so many of the climbers lost so much time (or left the race) due to the early crashes. If there had been more riders able to attack in the mountains things might not have been so dull, though I think Wiggins would still have won.

I'm really looking forward to the Giro, and I hope we see some more of the top GT racers enter. Tactics change quite a bit when there are more than a pair of guys with a real shot to win. Also, I really want to see how well Hesjedal can do against a stronger field. Can he be competitive against them, especially when they'll actually consider him a contender from the beginning?
 

airstream

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18-Valve. (pithy) said:
I hope ASO is done with that now. But I could see them doing it again, especially next year. A British winner is very good for business, apparently. It's bad for the sport, though, if it means that the fans have to watch a TT-heavy borefest.
Perhaps though imo you are not quite correct positioning Wiggins like an anticlimber. Say I don't see in which explosive aspects he loses to Basso or Hesjedal. Someone already tried to attack on Verbier... :)
 
responding to the OP's question- Is not about whether he rides Il Giro or not- is about winning it when Contador appears to be interest in it as well.
IF Brad's intentions were genuine when he announced it in the first place, he should take the challenge to measure his latest improvements against the best--- sooner or later he has to face him anyways.....
 

serfla

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I have impression that qualification of the last Tour as a borefest (or any other edition of the Tour) is more result of fans' disappointment by their idol's showing than objective judgement.
Contador's Giro victories (and many other) were very boring. They were classy, but made races boring. Yet, no one will qualify them as "borefest".
It's not Wiggo's (or anyone's else) guilt that he used his strengths, and opposition couldn't respond. It's responsibility of that opposition to prevent a borefest, if we're already judging someone.

Riders make the race, not the route. It's numerous times said and confirmed.
 

airstream

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It looks hilarious. People are admired with a classy Contador's Giro win. However these subtle cycling proficients are absolutely not enthusiastic about Wiggins' classy TdF victory and try to belittle it by any means. Some forum regs even settled in sky clinic thread apparently just because a GT winner Wiggins categorically contradicts their cycling visions. :)
 

airstream

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serfla said:
I'd say they're not fans of cycling, but fans of cyclists.
IMO even a fan of cyclists should be more generous and acknowlegde other riders' strength.
 
Aug 16, 2011
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serfla said:
I have impression that qualification of the last Tour as a borefest (or any other edition of the Tour) is more result of fans' disappointment by their idol's showing than objective judgement.
Contador's Giro victories (and many other) were very boring. They were classy, but made races boring. Yet, no one will qualify them as "borefest".
It's not Wiggo's (or anyone's else) guilt that he used his strengths, and opposition couldn't respond. It's responsibility of that opposition to prevent a borefest, if we're already judging someone.

Riders make the race, not the route. It's numerous times said and confirmed.
It's hard to describe last years Tour as anything but a borefest, the only people that found it exciting are probably Wiggo/Sky fans. There wasn't a whole lot to get excited about GC wise, the battle for white and Polka dot was ten times better than the battle for Yellow.

I'd agree, Contadors win at the Giro wasn't the most exciting win, but it was much better than Wiggins win at the Tour. Simply because of the fact that Contador attacked multiple times to win it, where Wiggins just rode tempo to win.
 

serfla

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Afrank said:
It's hard to describe last years Tour as anything but a borefest, the only people that found it exciting are probably Wiggo/Sky fans. There wasn't a whole lot to get excited about GC wise, the battle for white and Polka dot was ten times better than the battle for Yellow.
Well, there's always something exciting in the race. It doesn't always have to be the GC.
Regarding Giro vs. Tour borefest, winning by couple of minutes is far less boring than by 10 minutes.

I'd agree, Contadors win at the Giro wasn't the most exciting win, but it was much better than Wiggins win at the Tour. Simply because of the fact that Contador attacked multiple times to win it, where Wiggins just rode tempo to win.
Again, you're mixing the style with the character of a victory.
Convincing victory can be achieved by very different styles.
The question is: Why some convincing victories are qualified like boring, and other are not?
Two things are falling to mind.
First - it's because of sympathies and contempt to certain riders, and second - it's because general cycling auditorium prefers one style more than the other.
Why cycling auditorium prefers certain style? Well, because the dominance is more obvious in that case. And that's turning us to "the idol thesis". More obvious dominance is making rider's image closer to an image of omnipotent being.
 
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