Il Lombardia 2015, Oct 4th

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

Great course, great racing.

Exactly. I hope the course stays the same for many years.

I'd say the opposite, use this course every once in a while but have a slightly easier course in most years. With such a hard course, there are only a few possible winners.

That's the same as saying that they should have less cobbles in Paris-Roubaix, so that there will be more possible winners..

But that simply isn't true, as it would be a bunch sprint then.

For Lombardia, a hard edition like this year's could be won by maybe 5 riders, realistically, while in a race like last year or the year before, 20 riders have a chance to win. (Just throwing out some numbers here).

Extremely hard or extremely easy courses limit the possibilities for many riders.

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

Actually Rai reported that Chaves had cramps.

That's what Eurosport said as well.

Never seen a rider make such a quick recovery from cramps.

I have.
Well he sure as hell had cramps. He was attacking and then stopped... stretching his leg and grabbing it with his hand. It certainly looked like cramps!

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

Great course, great racing.

Exactly. I hope the course stays the same for many years.

I'd say the opposite, use this course every once in a while but have a slightly easier course in most years. With such a hard course, there are only a few possible winners.

I was thinking the same. This course really narrows it down to climbers only. It's great and awesome, but lacks the chance for an other type of rider to win.
It has to be said that the race was blown apart once they hit the climbs though. If nobody races there it might be another race.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

Great course, great racing.

Exactly. I hope the course stays the same for many years.

I'd say the opposite, use this course every once in a while but have a slightly easier course in most years. With such a hard course, there are only a few possible winners.

I was thinking the same. This course really narrows it down to climbers only. It's great and awesome, but lacks the chance for an other type of rider to win.
It has to be said that the race was blown apart once they hit the climbs though. If nobody races there it might be another race.

Its a fantastic alternative to the Ardennes. No need to transform it into those races again!

 

[Peccio89]

Kudos to Benedetti that managed to finish 14th after the breakaway

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

Great course, great racing.

Exactly. I hope the course stays the same for many years.

I'd say the opposite, use this course every once in a while but have a slightly easier course in most years. With such a hard course, there are only a few possible winners.

I was thinking the same. This course really narrows it down to climbers only. It's great and awesome, but lacks the chance for an other type of rider to win.
It has to be said that the race was blown apart once they hit the climbs though. If nobody races there it might be another race.

Its a fantastic alternative to the Ardennes. No need to transform it into those races again!

Ardennes is more puncheur then climbers. I don't mind this route at all and I hope we get it every now and then, but since they have different finishing locations every year it will change anyways.

 

[Tonton]

Re: Re:

Extremely hard or extremely easy courses limit the possibilities for many riders.

+1000. I find a bit misplaced that this course gets criticized when the poll for the WCRR shows so many 8s and 9s. Seriously? The course today made great racing possible, with many tactic options. It wasn't designed for a one-dimensional type of rider:being a super strong climber wasn't enough to win. Nibali combined great team work, solid climbing, vintage descending, and above all smart tactics. What more would one (except Cavendish ) want?

 

[Verious]

Moreno knew perfectly well Valverde would just keep his wheels rest of the race, team competition in the world tour, was more important than the race itself, therefore Moreno drove as he did.

 

[Arredondo]

Re:

Moreno knew perfectly well Valverde would just keep his wheels rest of the race, team competition in the world tour, was more important than the race itself, therefore Moreno drove as he did.

For a top rider, that's beyond stupid. Especially for a guy who will not be in that team anymore next year

 

[Velolover2]

Re: Re:

Great course, great racing.

Exactly. I hope the course stays the same for many years.

I'd say the opposite, use this course every once in a while but have a slightly easier course in most years. With such a hard course, there are only a few possible winners.

I was thinking the same. This course really narrows it down to climbers only. It's great and awesome, but lacks the chance for an other type of rider to win.
It has to be said that the race was blown apart once they hit the climbs though. If nobody races there it might be another race.

Its a fantastic alternative to the Ardennes. No need to transform it into those races again!

Yep, no need no make it poor man's Milano-Sanremo. Think about one-dimensional riders like Gerrans or Matthews winning such a great race. Urgh.

 

[Metabolol]

Very nice race and I hope they continue with this kind of course in the future.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

I wasn't too interested during this race. It was well executed by Nibali, just a little... formulaic. I'm not sure... 40k attack, caught, punch, punch, Nibali goes away on the descent.

Maybe the way the group shaped up, Nibali was just so much better than everyone else, I wasn't caught in suspense. His team was by far the best and on point making it no question that Wellens and Kwiat would come back. Rosa played the textbook foil, Valverde did his thing, Moreno waiting like Murito does. Nibali dive-bombs like fighter pilot. The podium deserved what they got, and all credit to them. Just as a spectator, I want a little more tension.

 

[Red Rick]

How does this course limit the amount of possible winners. Any top climber (say, those who can get top 10 in a GC in tough stage races) can win. Ofcourse the best are gonna have a better chance, but Lombardia is raced in october, 3 weeks after the Vuelta has finished and as a one day race, it's not easy to predict the winner.

How many riders can possibly win LBL? How many can possibly win de RVV or PR. It's always a few with a big chance and a lot with a tiny chance.

You know which monument has the biggest amount of favourites? MSR, and what a spectacle it is each year.

 

[May0maniac]

Kudos to Benedetti that managed to finish 14th after the breakaway

Yes, he should be able to find a team for 2016 after such a good performance.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Kudos to Benedetti that managed to finish 14th after the breakaway

Yes, he should be able to find a team for 2016 after such a good performance.

It's odd that he doesn't have a team already. He's a very solid domestique.

 

[doperhopper]

Re: Re:

Nibali's descent from the second last climb was breathtaking.

Yep, that was amazing. I would like to see Nibali vs Sagan on a descent

I wonder though why Nibali couldn't force a split in the descents at the Tour?

There should be road downhill in the Worlds, maybe with full armor. Also MTBers could have a chance.

 

[Vesica]

Re: Re:

Great course, great racing.

Exactly. I hope the course stays the same for many years.

I'd say the opposite, use this course every once in a while but have a slightly easier course in most years. With such a hard course, there are only a few possible winners.

That's the same as saying that they should have less cobbles in Paris-Roubaix, so that there will be more possible winners..

But that simply isn't true, as it would be a bunch sprint then.

For Lombardia, a hard edition like this year's could be won by maybe 5 riders, realistically, while in a race like last year or the year before, 20 riders have a chance to win. (Just throwing out some numbers here).

Extremely hard or extremely easy courses limit the possibilities for many riders.

and why would that be a bad thing? PR is that hard that there every year 5 riders in the chance to win. We don't complain about that, right?

I think that a harder Lombardia distinct the race from the Ardenne classics, which are more punchy. So then we got the two cobbled ones, two hilly ones and a climbers one. Imo that's great. And guys like Wellens and Kwia could also have won today, so still enough riders that can fight for the win in Lombardia.

 

[hfer07]

Re:

Moreno knew perfectly well Valverde would just keep his wheels rest of the race, team competition in the world tour, was more important than the race itself, therefore Moreno drove as he did.

Pardon me, but Do you realize that what you wrote makes no fvcking sense at all?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

Great course, great racing.

Exactly. I hope the course stays the same for many years.

I'd say the opposite, use this course every once in a while but have a slightly easier course in most years. With such a hard course, there are only a few possible winners.

I was thinking the same. This course really narrows it down to climbers only. It's great and awesome, but lacks the chance for an other type of rider to win.
It has to be said that the race was blown apart once they hit the climbs though. If nobody races there it might be another race.

Its a fantastic alternative to the Ardennes. No need to transform it into those races again!

Like with Sanremo and RVV, changing up the course has an exaggerated effect the first couple of years because people don't know the new course as well.

I'd much rather have a race like today's with only 5 people able to win than have a race 20 people can win, but with a course as turgid as last year's. And also, in a couple of years if they keep this course, riders will have learnt more where they need to dose their efforts and it won't be as much of a slaughter. At the end of the day, as riders get more conservative and domestiques become stronger, the races need to adapt to safeguard their spectacle and history. Sanremo has been adding further obstacles for some time to try to stop it becoming a pure sprinter's classic. The Ardennes are becoming very much a conservatively raced group of races that need a bit of a reboot. Much as Amstel moved the finale to Valkenburg away from Maastricht after the likes of Olaf Ludwig and Erik Zabel were winning, then moved it further up the road to prevent it being basically Flèche-lite on an easier climb, Liège needs to find a way to stop it being "everybody too afraid of RAF to do anything before then, then too much flat after RAF for attacks to stick". Lombardia's attempts at changing things up weren't great recently; the latest Lecco route had too much space between the penultimate and final climbs meaning that the short final climb was all-decisive and it was effectively a second puncheur's monument, and the less said about last year's festival of "leave it until later" the better. This was a vastly improved route which included both a sop to the classic climbs and a tough run-in that proved decisive not immediately to the finish.

If they want to do an easier version of the course, then do the same course without the Muro. This run-in seems to work.

Also, I'd say that by toughening up Lombardia so that a real climber can win it (Pinot, for example), we get to the state we should have: every single type of cyclist has a monument they can win as long as they're strong and versatile enough. Sprinters can win Sanremo as long as they're durable enough, pure climbers can win Lombardia as long as they're good enough at descending and willing to solo. Power rouleurs have Roubaix, but sprinters with enough versatility can compete. Puncheurs have Liège but climbers who are explosive enough can compete. De Ronde has a middle ground where ability to get over hills is necessary, but you need to do it with the power to get over the cobbles. No matter what type of rider you are, if you are good enough, there is a monument for you.

 

[Valv.Piti]

What I meant by my post was this course was a fantastic alternative to the boring riding in the Ardennes. I absolutely loved the route and it was a response to not going back to the 'easier' route.

On the Ardennes, I dont really know what you can make tougher. You can make Fleche longer, but that wont change a thing. Amstel will probably never get back to what it used to. I quite enjoyed L-B-L tho this year considering the recent edition/s.

 

[bassano]

Re:

On the Ardennes, I dont really know what you can make tougher. You can make Fleche longer, but that wont change a thing. Amstel will probably never get back to what it used to. I quite enjoyed L-B-L tho this year considering the recent edition/s.

why exactly this year LBL was so exciting? when I consider editions in last years, that good ones were 2012 and before

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re:

What I meant by my post was this course was a fantastic alternative to the boring riding in the Ardennes. I absolutely loved the route and it was a response to not going back to the 'easier' route.

On the Ardennes, I dont really know what you can make tougher. You can make Fleche longer, but that wont change a thing. Amstel will probably never get back to what it used to. I quite enjoyed L-B-L tho this year considering the recent edition/s.

With the Ardennes, there's not much you can do with Flèche as long as they finish on the Mur; what they did this year was as good as we can expect. The last time there was genuine suspense as to it coming down to more than the last 1500m was when Wegmann was caught at the last, and that was what, 2008? 2009? With Liège, they need to either reinstate Colonster after RAF so that domestiques don't get back on between RAF and St-Nic, or drop RAF. There are plenty of other tough climbs they could use around the city of Liège before the St-Nic - Ans finish to give us an interesting run-in.

 

[King Boonen]

It's a monument. The route should be as hard as it can possibly be made. These are real races, not ones full of sitting in the pack days and hoping you don't fall off and only putting in effort for a few final climbs. That kind of boring rubbish can be left for the GTs. If it's easy all you get is a big bunch of riders afraid to attack.

 

[Vesica]

Re: Re:

Also, I'd say that by toughening up Lombardia so that a real climber can win it (Pinot, for example), we get to the state we should have: every single type of cyclist has a monument they can win as long as they're strong and versatile enough. Sprinters can win Sanremo as long as they're durable enough, pure climbers can win Lombardia as long as they're good enough at descending and willing to solo. Power rouleurs have Roubaix, but sprinters with enough versatility can compete. Puncheurs have Liège but climbers who are explosive enough can compete. De Ronde has a middle ground where ability to get over hills is necessary, but you need to do it with the power to get over the cobbles. No matter what type of rider you are, if you are good enough, there is a monument for you.

exactly this.

 

[Red Rick]

What the monuments need isn't a big change in the parcours, it's a change in the team size. 5 man should be enough. They're one day races dammit