Il Lombardia 2024, one day monument, October 12, farewell to Domenico Pozzovivo

[vwpe]

So MVP vs WVA in 2 or 3 cobbled classics is better? Tell me where are they competing if we exclude RVV and PR (road racing of course)?

Its far more close than Pogacar and Vingegaard is. Pogacar will beat him by a minute at least everytime he wants in the mountains and everywhere else msny minutes. That he lost when he was hurt doesnt make it the rivalry WVA and MvdP has had their whole careers, far from it. Pogacar is to good for that now in reality.

 

[Heston]

I'm not sure you understand how sport works. They rarely race each other, apart from July. What about the rest of the season? Spring classics, World championships, autumn Italian races?

I'm not sure you understand how sport works. Tour de France is far and away the biggest race of the year with the most viewers. Pogacar and Vingegaard's battles the last 4 years have been extremely hyped and something everybody knows and talks about. There is no current rivalry in cycling that comes close. WVA/Remco are not real rivals to Pogacar.

 

[Heston]

Its far more close than Pogacar and Vingegaard is. Pogacar will beat him by a minute at least everytime he wants in the mountains and everywhere else msny minutes. That he lost when he was hurt doesnt make it the rivalry WVA and MvdP has had their whole careers, far from it. Pogacar is to good for that now in reality.

There have been 4 Tour de France editions where they were both on the startlist, and they have won 2 of those each.

How many editions of Roubaix/Flanders has WVA won when MVP was riding? Or just won in general?

 

[AmRacer]

There have been 4 Tour de France editions where they were both on the startlist, and they have won 2 of those each.

How many editions of Roubaix/Flanders has WVA won when MVP was riding? Or just won in general?

Jonas and Tadej have been 1-2 the last 4 TdF editions.

 

[Scarponi]

I dislike Roglic for racing like he's Simon Gerrans, that is something completely different than disliking him for sprinting.

You got my point, you don’t like either styles always whinging on here lol

 

[Lequack]

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A past so present, a present so future: Cycling

 

[Unchained]

Cycling used to be fun. But watching pogi going solo for the last1,2 or 3 Hours is Not very funny. Hope this will change otherwise you can skip the races where he starts

I can't help but wonder how many people felt this way about many great athletes during their time of domination.. I remember in his prime there were conversations about golf course design because Tiger Woods was able to accurately drive the ball distances that were unheard of by players.
Nadal and Federer both had years of dominance, Williams sisters, Tom Brady, Messi, Ronaldo ruled the world for years, people would just walk up and hand him money!!
Eddy Merckx and Armstrong were always heavy favorites..Personally I absolutely love watching Pogacar !! Maybe I enjoy it because I know the human condition and nothing lasts forever, even though sometimes it looks like it.

 

[Gratemans]

Nadal and Federer both had years of dominance, Williams sisters, Tom Brady, Messi, Ronaldo ruled the world for years, people would just walk up and hand him money!!

I dont agree. Federer and Nadal had years where one was better than the other overall, but their matches were almost always spectacular.
When it comes to team sports, I disagree even more. Even if one player is head and shoulders above the rest, their team can still (and often do) lose. Barcelona didn't automatically win the League because they had Messi.
I'll concede the Williams sisters. There were a couple of years when Serena was at her top that watching it just wasn't much fun.

 

[Netserk]

This was the most predictable classic I've seen, and yet I didn't find it boring. You get some of the best riders in the world going full for over an hour. It was interesting to see how UAE controlled the race and what the other teams did in an attempt to avoid the unavoidable.

I've seen a lot of races where nothing interesting happened until the final 10 km. At least now the race is on from afar. Of course when they attack early it can also mean the decision comes early.

The problem was that Sormano was a massive chokepoint. Everything before that was merely setting the table, and we knew how Sormano would play out and that the race would already be decided there. In this very unusual season where dominant long-range attacks have never been more common, I'd have liked Ghisallo to be in that spot. Like this, but without Civiglio for this year: https://ridewithgps.com/routes/48760861

Had it been a one-off of such dominance and predictability, I'd have been able to enjoy the rest of the race more.

 

[Salvarani]

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A past so present, a present so future: Cycling

Iconic

 

[Unchained]

I dont agree. Federer and Nadal had years where one was better than the other overall, but their matches were almost always spectacular.
When it comes to team sports, I disagree even more. Even if one player is head and shoulders above the rest, their team can still (and often do) lose. Barcelona didn't automatically win the League because they had Messi.
I'll concede the Williams sisters. There were a couple of years when Serena was at her top that watching it just wasn't much fun.

Agree to disagree, you are absolutely right on every point..UAE is absolutely destroying everyone.. Marc Hirsci w 5 in a row.. Team awards in every race they attend. So the team aspect, I get it ,but all the athletes I used as example were acknowledged at the time were as dominant. Pogacar was a force before he was an adult. Ballon,d'Or..The 2 have had lion's share for years.. Your point is that you are optimistic about how good Pogacar, and for how long
UAE is dominant, Pogacar and his teammates nearing all time winning in a single year.. People don't like it.. They want to see parity, long range, UAE will likely be another team.

 

[vwpe]

This was the most predictable classic I've seen, and yet I didn't find it boring. You get some of the best riders in the world going full for over an hour. It was interesting to see how UAE controlled the race and what the other teams did in an attempt to avoid the unavoidable.

I've seen a lot of races where nothing interesting happened until the final 10 km. At least now the race is on from afar. Of course when they attack early it can also mean the decision comes early.

My thoughts exactly. Spectacular for lack of other words.

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

I'm not sure you understand how sport works. They rarely race each other, apart from July. What about the rest of the season? Spring classics, World championships, autumn Italian races?

I think it was in the context of a peak Jonas.
But you won't see a peak Jonas in a monument. In fact I highly doubt that will ever happen.
Even for next years's Rwanda WC RR I have my doubts in his participation. Even though the route on paper will be the one that suits him the best for a Pogi challenge in a one day race in his lifetime, sadfully...

 

[Lequack]

UAE backstage pass

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOUrBfFDugU

 

[E_F_]

Even for next years's Rwanda WC RR I have my doubts in his participation. Even though the route on paper will be the one that suits him the best for a Pogi challenge in a one day race in his lifetime, sadfully...

The route really isn't good for Jonas. Haute-Savoie in 2027 will be that route.

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

The route really isn't good for Jonas. Haute-Savoie in 2027 will be that route.

I was thinking about base level above sea level combined with the climbs themselves.

A Sallanches-like route should IMO be more in Pogi's favor.

 

[Põhja Konn]

The discussion over whether Pogacars way of winning is more boring than an attritional race decided in a last kilometer of a MTF or on last meaningful obstacle in case of one day races reminds of the comparisons betweeen Nibalis domination of 2014 Tour and the way Sky strangled most of the other ones during previous decade.

While in Nibalis case, the winner was a foregone conclusion, his style of racing opened up the door for captivating racing for lower podium places. Sky on the contrary reduced the race down to who could hold on to the train longer, strangling all life out of it for controlling purposes and basically eliminating any separate fight for lower places.

Pog is clearly doing his business Nibali way in this comparison and as such offers up consolation prizes for viewers almost every time. Personally I clearly prefer this years Lombardia scenario where Pog does his business early and leaves plenty of room for the fight for places behind him to those LBL-s about a decade ago, when it all looked tense and close, but everybody knew to that Valverde would win the sprint in Ans.

Domination by an athlete or a team is always bad for the spectators, but no domination lasts forever. Personally I see no reason to dial out from this sport because of Pogs absurd level this year.

 

[E_F_]

I was thinking about base level above sea level combined with the climbs themselves.

A Sallanches-like route should IMO be more in Pogi's favor.

The issue is the many cobbled and short climbs. Pogacar could not wish for a more perfect route in view.

 

[shadowrider]

Agree to disagree, you are absolutely right on every point..UAE is absolutely destroying everyone.. Marc Hirsci w 5 in a row.. Team awards in every race they attend. So the team aspect, I get it ,but all the athletes I used as example were acknowledged at the time were as dominant. Pogacar was a force before he was an adult. Ballon,d'Or..The 2 have had lion's share for years.. Your point is that you are optimistic about how good Pogacar, and for how long
UAE is dominant, Pogacar and his teammates nearing all time winning in a single year.. People don't like it.. They want to see parity, long range, UAE will likely be another team.

Wellens a lot better since he joined UAE. Especially as superdomestique. Florian Vermeersch and Rune Herregodts, good riders but far from topriders, will become in a miraculous way superdomestiques next season. Hirschi will degrade from a toprider/winner of many races, to a normal good rider, struggling to win races..... once he will have left UAE. We saw the same strange things happen decades ago, riders joining or leaving USPostal and similar. Or more recently and in a less extent riders joining Jumbo-Visma. But of course it's all about good guidance (better than within the other teams). Other teams still using medieval methods.

 

[Samamba]

Wellens a lot better since he joined UAE. Especially as superdomestique. Florian Vermeersch and Rune Herregodts, good riders but far from topriders, will become in a miraculous way superdomestiques next season. Hirschi will degrade from a toprider/winner of many races, to a normal good rider, struggling to win races..... once he will have left UAE. We saw the same strange things happen decades ago, riders joining or leaving USPostal and similar. Or more recently and in a less extent riders joining Jumbo-Visma. But of course it's all about good guidance (better than within the other teams). Other teams still using medieval methods.

Wellens isn't even that much better. His TT his back at his 2017-2019 level, which is the last time he focussed on that somewhat and now he of course has a way better set up than at Lotto. But overall level? He isn't even at his level from before Covid, he just actually focusses on the races that suit him (flemish races) and has great riders to work for without any stress.

I expect Vermeersch to get really good at UAE, but he already was getting way better last season and he would've been great this season already if it wasn't for him breaking his leg and basically missing the whole season.

Herregodts TT will just be way better, like everyone else there.

In general I don't think the effect is as big as you describe, if we ignore TT.

 

[Zoetemelk-fan]

The issue is the many cobbled and short climbs. Pogacar could not wish for a more perfect route in view.

I see your point
Besides Pogi seems to have figured out the high altitude metres this year, too.
His display this entire season has been lethal. Remarkable lethal...

 

[dercuforever]

Wellens a lot better since he joined UAE. Especially as superdomestique. Florian Vermeersch and Rune Herregodts, good riders but far from topriders, will become in a miraculous way superdomestiques next season. Hirschi will degrade from a toprider/winner of many races, to a normal good rider, struggling to win races..... once he will have left UAE. We saw the same strange things happen decades ago, riders joining or leaving USPostal and similar. Or more recently and in a less extent riders joining Jumbo-Visma. But of course it's all about good guidance (better than within the other teams). Other teams still using medieval methods.

To be fair, when you see the coaching in the Netflix TDF serie, you can wonder if medieval methods aren't used everywhere else as well.

"let's go guys, concentrate, we can do it"
"go go go what you do is good go go go"

This, I would keep for my 6yo during school races.

 

[VO2 Max]

Domination by an athlete or a team is always bad for the spectators, but no domination lasts forever. Personally I see no reason to dial out from this sport because of Pogs absurd level this year.

This is right. And also the other guys are really not so far behind that it's unbridgable in a Monument if the game plan is perfect. Tadej had (effectively) two teammates in front when he went clear at the Worlds - was it seriously impossible for Belgium or Netherlands to have anticipated something was going on, was it seriously impossible for them to have had guys in that move? 100km to go is often the first big point in a long selective race - if a big favourite is ahead at that point then the next big guys have to back themselves and work together to get across, if MvdP and Remco don't back themselves to finish off Ben Healey or Tom Skuijns in the finale of a monument-style race they need to have a word with themselves. A Grand Tour or a super hilly race like Lombardia is a different matter of course, but it seems at this point that Pogacar has just got in their heads.