Il Lombardia 2025, monument, October 11

[Peyroteo94]

Of course I watched the WC? Do you think it likely that without UAE (and rather oddly Bora) drilling the peloton, the break might have got slightly more rope than the maximum 3.5 minutes they were allowed?

I’m not arguing there would be a different result but a comparison with country representation where teams are not as strong is not really valid.

UAE has a ridiculously strong team for GT and hilly classics. Packed with riders that would otherwise contend for podiums. Are you suggesting Pogacar doesn’t benefit from that?

Of course but the outcome was the same even if he was riding for a poor team like Slovenia.

 

[Cycling111]

There's no picture of when Simmons dropped Del Toro?

 

[Red Rick]

UAE either thought going on Ganda was lower variance or they wanted to maximize the chances of Del Toro getting podium. Pogacar could have easily gone on Crocetta.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

UAE either thought going on Ganda was lower variance or they wanted to maximize the chances of Del Toro getting podium. Pogacar could have easily gone on Crocetta.

I think UAE was counting on two podium spots, that's why they didn't go hard on earlier climbs (plus going on Ganda is a pretty safe bet for Pog). El Toro had his (already usual) post 200 km crisis though.

 

[Netserk]

UAE either thought going on Ganda was lower variance or they wanted to maximize the chances of Del Toro getting podium. Pogacar could have easily gone on Crocetta.

I think UAE was counting on two podium spots, that's why they didn't go hard on earlier climbs (plus going on Ganda is a pretty safe bet for Pog). El Toro had his (already usual) post 200 km crisis though.

Fully agree with both of you.

Which is why Evenepoel should have attacked before Ganda.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Fully agree with both of you.

Which is why Evenepoel should have attacked before Ganda.

To prevent Del Toro's podium?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

To prevent Del Toro's podium?

To cause chaos in a very predictable race. Maybe he believed too much he could follow (or limit his loss) once Pog attacks.

 

[Peyroteo94]

To cause chaos in a very predictable race.

Then I agree with you.

 

[Cycling111]

To prevent Del Toro's podium?

Del Toro wouldn't have been on the podium. It's clear he struggles from the 200 kilometers. San Sebastian was a lower-level race, and he also struggled.

In any case, I don't know how attacking earlier would have benefited Remco. The agonistics races and long-distance attacks benefit Pogacar.


If the Tour were to bring back the 250km stages of other decades, Pogacar would be even more superior to Vingegaard, who seems to be another rider adapted to the modern mileage of GT races.

 

[Cycling111]

I think UAE was counting on two podium spots, that's why they didn't go hard on earlier climbs (plus going on Ganda is a pretty safe bet for Pog). El Toro had his (already usual) post 200 km crisis though.

Adam Yates could have worked, but he never did. I don't understand being eleventh serves for someone who finished on the podium in Lombardy three years ago....

 

[Pogacsa]

Don't you think a more charitable explanation for why Del Toro didn't do as well as some expected is that he raced last Saturday (and won!), raced on Sunday, raced Tuesday (and was in the thick of it until Pogacar escaped), and raced Thursday (and won!)

For a 21 year old, that is a lot of racing and not exactly ideal preparation for a podium finish yesterday. But did admirably well none-the-less

 

[Salvarani]

Don't you think a more charitable explanation for why Del Toro didn't do as well as some expected is that he raced last Saturday (and won!), raced on Sunday, raced Tuesday (and was in the thick of it until Pogacar escaped), and raced Thursday (and won!)

For a 21 year old, that is a lot of racing and not exactly ideal preparation for a podium finish yesterday. But did admirably well none-the-less

Finishing 5th is a great result here.

 

[Cycling111]

Don't you think a more charitable explanation for why Del Toro didn't do as well as some expected is that he raced last Saturday (and won!), raced on Sunday, raced Tuesday (and was in the thick of it until Pogacar escaped), and raced Thursday (and won!)

For a 21 year old, that is a lot of racing and not exactly ideal preparation for a podium finish yesterday. But did admirably well none-the-less

It could be, but the same thing has happened to him in all three races over 200 km this year, also in San Sebastian.
And in the Giro, he had his two worst days on the two toughest stages.

By the way, if Del Toro wins today, that fatigue theory...
I think it's clearly an endurance issue. He has room for improvement.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Don't you think a more charitable explanation for why Del Toro didn't do as well as some expected is that he raced last Saturday (and won!), raced on Sunday, raced Tuesday (and was in the thick of it until Pogacar escaped), and raced Thursday (and won!)

For a 21 year old, that is a lot of racing and not exactly ideal preparation for a podium finish yesterday. But did admirably well none-the-less

Young

 

[hayneplane]

The rise of the Young Guns this late in the season is a good sign the future will be interesting.

Worth mentioning Pellizzari in this as he got two strong GC results in Giro/Vuelta. Understandable to not be be his best here after that as I don’t think anyone who did GC at the Vuelta has had a strong result in the one dayers since then.

 

[hayneplane]

Adam Yates could have worked, but he never did. I don't understand being eleventh serves for someone who finished on the podium in Lombardy three years ago....

Yates has been living in past performances for a while with this now a frequent occurrence of him dropping prior to even feeling the first touch of wind to his face yet then continuing on to get a placement.

 

[Netserk]

Worth mentioning Pellizzari in this as he got two strong GC results in Giro/Vuelta. Understandable to not be be his best here after that as I don’t think anyone who did GC at the Vuelta has had a strong result in the one dayers since then.

Pidcock somewhat, thanks to his class.

 

[hayneplane]

Pidcock somewhat, thanks to his class.

Yes fair. Top ten here and 2nd in Emilia was close to the best he could do even if optimally prepared.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Oh come on!! I normally enjoy pretty intellectual entertainment but there is something about Unchained and the unfiltered stream of consciousness that is pretty good. NEVER dull, that is for sure.

That's not what I said. Comparing it to the level of entertainment in the races doesn't mean much. That's like telling your wife she is prettier than a pig. Try it and tell us how it went.

 

[yaco]

It could be, but the same thing has happened to him in all three races over 200 km this year, also in San Sebastian.
And in the Giro, he had his two worst days on the two toughest stages.

By the way, if Del Toro wins today, that fatigue theory...
I think it's clearly an endurance issue. He has room for improvement.

How many neo-pros can ride a strong 250kms.

 

[Tricycle Rider]

I missed the race and am not inclined to watch the whole replay, but I really enjoyed the send-off to the riders who are retiring, especially Majka.

(I started following cycling when Majka first came on the scene, so it's kinda like we've grown old together or something. )

 

[aphronesis]

Oh come on!! I normally enjoy pretty intellectual entertainment but there is something about Unchained and the unfiltered stream of consciousness that is pretty good. NEVER dull, that is for sure.

It grows and there’s a lot in there. Maybe less unfiltered than it seems.

 

[Cycling111]

How many neo-pros can ride a strong 250kms.

I've already said he can improve. But as of today, it's clear he didn't perform as well in those races because of the mileage, not dute to fatigue, or it would have been more noticeable today. Or he wouldn't have failed just in San Sebastian.

It seems no coincidence that his worst results in the fall were in the three races over 200km: San Sebastian, Rwanda, and Lombardia.

By de way, Del Toro isn't a neo-pro; he's a second-year rider.

 

[Miha81]

Wooden Melania 🤣😂

 

[andrew_s]

There's no picture of when Simmons dropped Del Toro?

Del Toro never caught Simmons, so you could say he dropped Del Toro at km 0.

Del Toro was showing signs of being about to be dropped by Remco & Storer when coverage cut away to show Pogacar summiting the Ganda, When the cameras cut back there was a 30 m gap. Remco & Storer caught Simmons just before the top, and dropped Simmons soon after the top on a short rise.