Indurain Compared to Contador

[peloton]

One of the arguments that the Evans supporters had was that his environment (his team's) was not conducive to him being at his best nor was it the most supportive of elements. The belief is that a sea of change has seemingly come over Evans since his WC victory based on that move to BMC.

Contador has been with 3 teams in 3 years with the first being in his relatively formative/maturing years (Disco/Astana under Bruyneel) with the last year filled with never-ending drama, conflicts and distractions. Next the virtual move from Bruyneel/Astana to Vino/Martinelli Astana. Again not ideal and a year with the span of time between the end of the 2009 Tour to the beginning of 2010 not necessarily one on calming cruise-control, especially the period after the Tour where his next team was up in the air, dependant upon being let out of his Astana contract.

Resolved to his fate of staying with an Astana that was pretty much emptied of all of its stage race talent and support, with the exception of Vino, Contador's 3 amigos (Navarro, Noval and Hernandez, one or 2 of which were added after the exodus) and several hires, it's natural that a rider would take time to adapt to their new environment and mesh with different management styles, personalities and training philosphies.

Next year the move to a Saxo Bank team that had just experienced a very similar exodus of talent to the new Leopard-Trek squad, leaving a team even more depleted of talent than the previous Astana team. Not an ideal series of environments to foster success, not to mention the drama of the positive test
during the last rest day of the 2010 Tour and the long drawn out drama that followed.

I'm a firm believer that stability breeds success and even in this period of chaos Contador still found a way to come out on top with the exception of this year's Tour, where surprisingly in this forum, he gained quite a few converts to his side as admirers of his tenacious drive and ability.

It's my belief that should he stay with Riis and Saxo Bank that we will see not a Contador who has reached his peak early and beginning to decline but one that will continue to display his talents as the era's greatest stage racer with couple of wins in the hilly classics thrown in.

This.
+100000

 

[hfer07]

Contador compared to Indurain -where do I begin with? Two different eras, with different rivals, environments, objectives & developing to stardom-we already know that---titles? they are both accomplished athletes-hunger for success & they are/were goal orientated with the sense of engineering-like approach-very precised & details matter the most. so what is left? Style

I am only going to compare the two of them only In "riding Style" since is the only field they both differ- Contador-the most aggressive, based purely on instincts & feelings-whereas Indurain was more calculating & "economical" in the sense of expending energy-only putting the efforts "as required"-when and where it matters" this difference is what made Contador an early GT winner-Induarain on the other hand required more "assurance" to finally claim his rightful place in cycling history.

 

[max_powers]

BIG Mig!
The physics of realtively heavy cyclist propelling themselves up all the TDF climbs, and competing, let alone winning implies this man could ride (suffer) amongst the best of all time imo

Contador is a super talent, his tour this year was not in the stars (luck). He got a good dose of suffering this year.

While both's work ethic are/were strong wrt training and racing, both have great results, and both were/are better than 99% of the peloton, personality-wise I just like Miguel better, and therefore is the better overall rider

 

[isayic]

Indurain tested three times positive and nothing happened.

 

[Angliru]

Indurain tested three times positive and nothing happened.

Save it for the clinic!

 

[Kellys Big Sprocket]

Another aspect that many will respect is that all great cycling champions show ther true mettle in defeat - Merkx being punched in the kidneys in the 75 Tour, Hinault when he was laughed at by Fignon in 84. I recall Indurain the 96 Tour being subjected to an almighty hiding on the road to his home town of Pamplona and was made to stand up and smile in front of his home crowd as the man who had dished out the kicking, Riis, gave him flowers !!!!! - Gut wrenching to watch. Indurains sense of obligation to his public could never be questioned. Very noble.

 

[indurain666]

Indurain tested three times positive and nothing happened.

Feel free to open another one of those intelligent, factual and informative "No way X rider is clean" type of threads in the clinic. This is road racing

 

[SirLes]

I prefer Contador's style but Impossible to say who was better as they are from different eras. (possible clinic thread could be made at this point)

I will go with Indurain being better if the course was a time trial heavy early nineties one and Contador better if it was a recent one.

How about that for fence sitting

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

1. Nobody remembers the time a gt is won.

It's an indication of how dominant the winner was whether you remember it or not.

2. Contador is 28 years old, Indurain and Armstrong won their first Tour at age 27

So what? The question isn't "who was greater at age 28" now, is it?

3. Contador won all 3 GTs, a feat never achieved by either Indurain or Armstrong

Indurain's 2 Giro-Tour doubles are nevertheless way more impressive than Contador's Giro-Vuelta double. Armstrong didn't even try and nor would Bertie have if he had been allowed to ride the Tour. The Giro-Vuelta double was his fallback. He prioritized the Tour.

4. Indurain never won his Giros with great time differences

So Indurain won 5/7 GT's in a dominant fashion (all Tours) whereas Contador has won 2/6 GT's in a dominant fashion (one Tour). This is definitely in Bertie's favour!

5. Indurain didn't win a lot of stages during his Tour years

6. Contador gifts away a lot of stages, so looking at stage wins is useless.

Mkay.

7. Contador's first Giro win was with a cracked elbow and without any prep Yet he still won with 2 minutes against a Cera field

All hail Contador, the patron of clean racing, for defeating a field of evil CERA users! Brilliant performance against all odds!

8. It's better to win a Tour with only 23 seconds at age 24 than it is to drop out in a Tour(Indurain, Armstrong)

Sorry, it's not about who was better at 24 either.

9. Contador has the weakest team ever compared to other Greats

Big deal and it's not like Indurain won his Tours thanks to an amazing team.

10. Different freaking era. Indurain would have won 0 GTs in this current era without time trials and lot's and lot's of climbing(no way Indurain would have ever won this year's Giro against Contador)

Wild, irrelevant speculation. Big Mig has the better CV, end of story.

Indurain won tons of one-week stage races too. A couple of Dauphinés, Midi Libre, Catalunya, Asturias, Paris-Nice, Criterium International, the whole enchillada. Right now, I'd say Indurain is still ahead thanks to his two Giro-Tour doubles, his Olympic gold, his ITT WC, and his three medals in the WC RR, IIRC. Of course, Contador has more than enough time to surpass him, but right now I'd say Indurain still comes on top.

http://velopalmares.free.fr/indurain.htm
5 Tours (91-95)
2 Giros (92-93)
3 Volta a Catalunya (88, 91-92)
2 Paris-Nice (89-90)
2 Dauphiné Liberé (95-96)
1 Critérium International (89)
1 Midi Libre (95)
1 Volta ao Alentejo (96)
1 Vuelta a Asturias (96)
1 Euskal Bizikleta (96)
1 Vuelta a La Rioja (95)
1 Vuelta a Galicia (95)
1 Tour de l'Oise (94)
1 Vuelta a Castilla y León (93)
1 Tour du Vaucluse (91)
1 Vuelta a los Valles Mineros (87)
1 Vuelta a Murcia (86)
1 Tour de l'Avenir (86)

Again, Indurain was a monster in one-week stage races. And his WC medals were in August, when all the top guys rode it, so if anything they should count for more than anything Contador can manage to do in the future.

Thank you! It's just so blatantly obvious that MI's palmares are superior, in and outside of GT's. There's not a single valid argument for why Contador's is better. All this nonsense about how Contador is going to surpass Indurain... Why don't you Dertie-fanboys save it for when he actually does?

 

[Angliru]

Thank you! It's just so blatantly obvious that MI's palmares are superior, in and outside of GT's. There's not a single valid argument for why Contador's is better. All this nonsense about how Contador is going to surpass Indurain... Why don't you Dertie-fanboys save it for when he actually does?

The bolded text pretty much shows where you're coming from so you could have saved us a lot of time by simply showing your bias upfront.

I personally admire both riders and think it's too early to be making comparisons. In that I agree with the last part of your final sentence. Obviously Indurain's palmares are superior to Contador's at this point in his career.

 

[Midnightfright]

Migs palmares edges it at the moment but I feel that Bertie is a better stage racer and will fibish his career with more wins.

 

[indurain666]

http://velopalmares.free.fr/indurain.htm
5 Tours (91-95)
2 Giros (92-93)
3 Volta a Catalunya (88, 91-92)
2 Paris-Nice (89-90)
2 Dauphiné Liberé (95-96)
1 Critérium International (89)
1 Midi Libre (95)
1 Volta ao Alentejo (96)
1 Vuelta a Asturias (96)
1 Euskal Bizikleta (96)
1 Vuelta a La Rioja (95)
1 Vuelta a Galicia (95)
1 Tour de l'Oise (94)
1 Vuelta a Castilla y León (93)
1 Tour du Vaucluse (91)
1 Vuelta a los Valles Mineros (87)
1 Vuelta a Murcia (86)
1 Tour de l'Avenir (86)
1 Olympic TT Gold (96)
1 Word's TT Gold (95)

He also raced Worlds RR several times, and actually won silver in 95 when he clearly sacrificed his chances in support of Olano

 

[Angliru]

He also raced Worlds RR several times, and actually won silver in 95 when he clearly sacrificed his chances in support of Olano

I've got the video of that one, in Colombia with Pantani the primary opposition. Indurain was so strong he simply shadowed everyone of Pantani's attacks. Masterful display of his class, all in the service of his teammate and good friend Olano. I recall Olano had attacked near the end and rode the final km's on a flat tire! Indurain had already won the gold in the ITT that year.

I really need to find the video. Bought it right before WCP converted their video library to dvd's and they were selling all their VHS tapes for dirt cheap.
I foolishly assumed they would convert all their library to digital which they did not, only maybe 50% or less, otherwise I would bought up way more of what is now no longer available unless you go to cyclingtorrents (is that it?).

 

[hrotha]

He also raced Worlds RR several times, and actually won silver in 95 when he clearly sacrificed his chances in support of Olano

I was only listing his stage-race palmares. Note there's no San Sebastián or Spanish championship either.

 

[AngusW]

Indurain also entered 2 GTs per year every year from 1985 to 1996 (except 1995). Carlos Sastre is the only current GT contender that I can think of that comes close to that sort of pariticipation in GTs.

 

[Señor_Contador]

I know one thing Miguel beat Alberto on by a mile an a half: Miguel used to turn off the AC in his hotel room as soon as he entered it. I remember a Marca interview with Echavarri in which the later is said to have gone into Miguel's room in the middle of the night, during one of the hottests nights, thermometer at hand, and measured 30º Celsius.

Alberto would never be able to handle that.

 

[Angliru]

I know one thing Miguel beat Alberto on by a mile an a half: Miguel used to turn off the AC in his hotel room as soon as he entered it. I remember a Marca interview with Echavarri in which the later is said to have gone into Miguel's room in the middle of the night, during one of the hottests nights, thermometer at hand, and measured 30º Celsius.

Alberto would never be able to handle that.

I recall quite a few riders in that era doing the same to avoid waking with sore throats or at least turning the AC down a bit.

 

[blutto]

He also raced Worlds RR several times, and actually won silver in 95 when he clearly sacrificed his chances in support of Olano

...also Bronze in Stuttgart in 91 and Silver in Oslo in 93 ( where by the way he beat Olaf Ludwig into 3rd in a sprint )...

Cheers

blutto

 

[Nielsa]

I recall quite a few riders in that era doing the same to avoid waking with sore throats or at least turning the AC down a bit.

This era too, I saw a tweet from Cancellara at this year's TdF saying they were sleeping with the windows open and the AC off. (Apparently lots of mosquitos too.)

 

[cromagnon]

Mig was one of a kind, I love that era of racing Ciapucci, Bugno, Lemond, Fignon, Zulle, Breukink, Perico, Roche, Kelly, Abdoujaparov, Jalabert, Rominger, Museuw, Yates, Millar, Durand.

I forgot what Bugno was like he rode like an absolute beast on one of the mountain stages in the pyrenees at the 90 tour, but everything he could do Indurain could do better. 1991 tour the favourites were animating the race on stage ONE and Indurain took change and responded. I remember an awesome Zulle was 4 mins up the road to La Plagne (I think it was La Plagne in 1994). Mig just got on the front and annihilated the field. When he took charge he did with utter authority. You can't say Contador does that as successfully, he's not as dominant a rider.

As far as a head to head - times have changed but natural talent wise I think Mig was an all-time freak and would have stayed with AC in climbs and simply eaten him in ITT's. Also the knowledge of weight loss methods today would have seen an improvement for Indurain in the weight department, maximising that giant engine.

 

[movingtarget]

I don't agree with "french liked Indurain" I don't think French like other people be American, Spanish, etc

Funny how people easily forget what an awesome climber Indurain was. Remember in 95 when he had to chase Zulle down while he was off the front from a breakaway? He basically sat down and rode very hard tempo up to La Plagne and basically slaughtered all climbers one by one! Often he did not need to do that due to long time trials.

TDF was a different race back them, TT kms were well above 100 km mark which made

Also, pro cycling season of a lot of these 90s guys was not built around TDF like modern guys. Indurain
"only" won five TDFs plus two Giros, two of those were Giro-TDF doubles which in my view, puts him at a higher level of achievement compared to Armstrong.

Hard to say if Contador is going to be even better than Indurain, he still has about 6 years of high level racing (in theory). I would be very disappointed if he spends the next five years just racing TDfs, and nothing else.

Indurain reminds me of Basso re style, but better especially in the TT of course. Contador is the more attacking rider but it is hard to predict the future re Contador. I would say at the moment that Indurain would be slightly ahead of Contador but that could change within the next few years. I still think it may be a bit premature to say that Contador will continue to dominate. Some riders peak early in their career. If Contador can continue to find his 2010 Giro form then his record should be impressive. Probably exceeding Indurain's.

 

[cromagnon]

It's a myth that Indurain sucked wheels then won in ITT's. He did win in ITT's but he also reacted to moves many many times and this is just one example of that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Occ6GzAsBuE&feature=related

Great stage, absolutely nutty crowd, Chiappucci balls of steel. You'll need headphones, audio is horrible through speakers.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Contador is a climber who can time-trial. Indurain was a time-trialist who could climb. Their racing styles are a reflection of this.

Don't know where this idea comes from. Contador has been winning ITTs since his first year as a pro. It's a myth that he only developed the skill as a precursor to entering the TdF.

...he's 29 at the end of the year and i think he probably peaked already, he might still be in his prime for a couple of years but GC-riders who are winning early generally don't last overly long (Indurain, Merckx and Hinault all quit when they wore around 32)....

Maybe he'll get lucky and all the drugs will give him cancer. Then he can take a couple of years off for the cure and recuperation, hire Chris Carmichael as his personal trainer, stage a miraculous comeback, win 7 straight tours and found a new world religion.

Stranger has happened.

 

[SiAp1984]

I don't know if there is a thread about this already, but I always felt that AC and phase II-Lance Armstrong were quite similar in the Tours they won. I guess that is the reason why they can't stand each other.

- Both used a rather unorthodox "spinning" or "dancing" style at high cadence in the mountains.
- Both loved to change their rhythm a lot, both rode extremly aggressive and usually tried to stamp their authority on the Tour in the first really hard day in the mountains. Armstrong did a Verbier-like attack in almost every Tour he won until 2004 (Sestriere 1999, Hautacam and Ventoux 2000, Alp d'Huez 2001, Plateau de Beille 2002, Luz Ardiden 2003).
- Just as Contador, Lance Armstrong occasionally made gifts to his contenders (Pantani 2000, Basso and Valverde 2004). Only in 2005 he didn't win a stage in the mountains (AC 2010, no stage win at all).
- Both were likely the strongest climbers in the field of the Tours they won (AC 2007 [because Rasmussen was forced out of the race], 2009 [undisputed], Lance 1999-2002, 2004, even though Heras was propably better in 2002)

Of course, differences remain:
- Lance obviously never cared for races outside of the Tour after 1999, even if he eg won Dauphinée and Suisse. AC wins lots of smaller races per year.
- Lance dominated and won countless Tour-ITTs - most of them against Ullrich, who, on paper, should have been a better time-trialist.
- Lance is not Spanish ;-)

Anyway, I guess AC is more similar to Lance Armstrong than to Indurain.

 

[SiAp1984]

Oh, and of course AC won 2 GTs in 2008. Lance never did that (I don't know why, but I couldn't edit my previous message...)