Interesting piece on Livestrong

[Anonymous]

I appreciate where you're coming from but it became known that people like Moreau and Ullrich were in fact doping less after Festina, and this was brought out by JV and Livingston who were in the best position to know. In 99 and the early 2000's the team where doping was pervasive was USPS.

I was talking about the discussion on internet forums specifically, and in particular regarding those who were most vehemently defending a clean peloton. If you didn't know doping was pervasive by 1995, you were blind. I just wanted to believe the myth of Armstrong until 2005.

 

[thehog]

That is an absolute lie. You are so full of ****, I am going to start calling you "Outhouse." EVERYONE knew that most of the riders were doping. The ones who defended and said that doping was isolated, and that it couldn't possibly be as pervasive as many suggest were ARMSTRONG SUPPORTERS. Go search the links from 2005 on from various cycling forums and what I say will bear out.

You screw the law up and berate people, and then you screw what actually happened regarding the discussion on doping up and berate people. You have a pretty **** poor batting average Outhouse. I'd stay in the minor leagues. I hear the Google forms on cycling welcome people like you.

Yep forums back in the day had crazy stuff like the below. They always asking for proof and saying: "Until there is actual proof of doping and not rumours and innuendo then Lance is innocent". Problem being two sets of proof in Landis and Hamilton stepped forward then the tune changed to: "Well everyone was doing it, so the playing field was level, he still trained the hardest so he still wins".

I'm sure this will continue to morph.

Believe you me the forums from the early 2000's in the defence of Armstong being clean were even more crazy than the clinic has even been!

__

http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-11193.html

These are my favourite doozies:

In Lances' new book he has a whole paragraph on the Actovegin...and ill copy it...

"The investigation gathered momentum in December, and so did the press reports. Their focus was a mysterious substance called Actovegin, an empty box which had been found in our roadside garbage. Almost all of the reports were sensational and erroneous: Actovegin was variously described as an experimental Norwegin medication and as calf's blood, and, according to one especially silly report in the Times of london, it had never been ussed oh humans before.

I had never heard of it. I'd never used it, and to this day I still haven't. On checking, none of my teammates had heard of it, either. Still, the press chattered on: it was a red-blood booter (it wasn't), it was banned (it wasn't), it emulated the effects of the banned erythropoietin (it didn't)."

It goes on a few more paragraphs but you get the jist. I think people are bitter that Lance works his *** off everyday and wins. And until he is proven to use drugs, then he is the best cyclist in the world

__

Man, I am so sick of the Lance on drugs subject. Lance is NOT on drugs!!!! His coaches have his performance down to a science book. Does Jan train as hard a Lance? Does Jan measure every ounce of food he puts into his mouth? Does Jan know exactly how many calories he will burn on any given stage? Well, if he does I haven't heard about it.

At one of the hospitals in Texas Lance went to, he still has the record for the highest V02 max ever recorded there. Just think about the fact that he even recovered from cancer( he was one of the worst cases the docs had seen). Have you ever seen someone who is suffering from cancer??? It is terrible, and if you haven't seen it(Someone with suffering from cancer), I don't think you can really imagine it.

Concerning Dr. Ferrari, did you read in Velonews what Lance said about Ferrari? Basically, Dr Ferrari has never actually been convicted of giving cyclists drugs. A rider employing him just said he(Dr. Ferrari) administered him(the cyclist) drugs as a cover up. Everything else about Dr Ferrari is untrue. And in America, with an unbaised justice system, Dr. Ferrari's trial would never have happened. There isn't sufficient evidence to convict him. In fact, there is no evidence. So Lance has decided to stick with Dr. Ferrari because Lance is a loyal person, and isn't scared by the stupid press spreading stupid "Drug abuse" stories about him.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Reading this screed won't help anyone get facts as the stuff posted here is seldom fact, mostly just opinion.

Fact. The correct spelling is Alea iacta est.

 

[Cloxxki]

I was talking about the discussion on internet forums specifically, and in particular regarding those who were most vehemently defending a clean peloton. If you didn't know doping was pervasive by 1995, you were blind. I just wanted to believe the myth of Armstrong until 2005.

Me too.
The cadance and cancer got to me.
I was not following the cancer when it was there, but when he started winning diffferent kinds of races (GC), he had my attention. I always regarded him as dangerous in a lead group, bit too bulky to make it on long hills and time trials. It inspired to see someone aiming high.
For a time, I wore the wristband. Until it became too religic, and I don't do religion.

I too, had experimented with cadance on the bike. I figured that Lance being such a tiny little man meant that he was actually turning relatively big cranks, realtively lightning fast. That's not the norm, but I was all for it (still am actually).
I couldn't believe the blind hostility towards Lance when I came here. It took me a while before I got myself to dive in and catch up. The yellow faded, and what was left was a highly unpleasant bully, make ****loads of money, bragging about being such a good person, and it just felt like sci-fi.

Not that I realize soms basic facts, I can be considered a hater.

 

[MacRoadie]

http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-11193.html

These are my favourite doozies:

This one is my favorite:

And the sad thing is, they took Lance in Europe and just recently tested the hell out of him in an effort to see if he was using any illegal drugs. I believe they even charged him with using drugs, and until the tests came back as negative, they refused to drop the charges. They interrupted his training routine weeks before the tour and forced him to go through this inconvenience until they couldn't find anything and released him. At least, this is the story I read about when I was in Europe.

I must have missed all the "Armstrong arrested on doping charges" headlines back in 2002...

 

[doolols]

Many of us tell the same story. I was an Armstrong fan back in 2005 when I first found forums on cycling, and within a year, I had read enough even then to know that the myth that is Armstrong deserves to be outed.

I'm glad I'm not the only one. Nowadays, whenever you see performances like we saw him give, you think "hello, what's going on here?" But because it was Him, I watched in awe, and never questioned it. He trains harder than everyone else - it said so in his book. He's more determined than anyone else - it said so in another of his books.

So, as someone who came here A Believer, I've read enough to have had my mind changed. I'm not a hater, or someone who's envious of him. But I hate cheats, and people who sit on high, a self-appointed Wonderboy.

Obviously, this was "The Look" I was referring to

 

[Dr. Maserati]

While I wouldn't agree with the statement that Lance doped more than other riders (you can't support that statement). I would agree with the statement that Lance doped better than other riders.

I do like this new argument - Lance wasn't the biggest doper.

However - Armstrong did have a much longer career than many of his peers, we know his test results were off since 1993, and as he doped heavily throughout their career that would be a lot of PEDs.
So maybe he won that race too.

Still: All his rivals doped. You can argue around that all you want, but it remains a fact. Now that Floyd and Tyler have confessed, the irrational haters want to minimize that fact. But before Floyd and Tyler, one of the main talking points of the haters was the fact that Lance couldn't win without doping because all his competitors doped.

This paragraph makes no sense whatsoever.

Floyd and Tyler have not been punished for their USPS doping.

But Floyd and Tyler did serve their sanctions when they were caught - unlike you know who.
Also - they may yet get punished for what they admitted to on USPS. As I already pointed out, Tygart & USADA are part of this investigation.

 

[thehog]

This one is my favorite:




I must have missed all the "Armstrong arrested on doping charges" headlines back in 2002...

Yes but luckily they released him just before the Tour so he could train and win.

I bet Hog and Lance used to share a bottle of wine and read out these forum postings to each other.

"Hey Lance, check this one! Says you have a really long thigh bone and thats why you won the Tour!"

 

[Race Radio]

Yep forums back in the day had crazy stuff like the below. They always asking for proof and saying: "Until there is actual proof of doping and not rumours and innuendo then Lance is innocent". Problem being two sets of proof in Landis and Hamilton stepped forward then the tune changed to: "Well everyone was doing it, so the playing field was level, he still trained the hardest so he still wins".

I'm sure this will continue to morph.

Believe you me the forums from the early 2000's in the defence of Armstong being clean were even more crazy than the clinic has even been!

__

http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-11193.html

These are my favourite doozies:

In Lances' new book he has a whole paragraph on the Actovegin...and ill copy it...

"The investigation gathered momentum in December, and so did the press reports. Their focus was a mysterious substance called Actovegin, an empty box which had been found in our roadside garbage. Almost all of the reports were sensational and erroneous: Actovegin was variously described as an experimental Norwegin medication and as calf's blood, and, according to one especially silly report in the Times of london, it had never been ussed oh humans before.

I had never heard of it. I'd never used it, and to this day I still haven't. On checking, none of my teammates had heard of it, either. Still, the press chattered on: it was a red-blood booter (it wasn't), it was banned (it wasn't), it emulated the effects of the banned erythropoietin (it didn't)."

It goes on a few more paragraphs but you get the jist. I think people are bitter that Lance works his *** off everyday and wins. And until he is proven to use drugs, then he is the best cyclist in the world

__

Man, I am so sick of the Lance on drugs subject. Lance is NOT on drugs!!!! His coaches have his performance down to a science book. Does Jan train as hard a Lance? Does Jan measure every ounce of food he puts into his mouth? Does Jan know exactly how many calories he will burn on any given stage? Well, if he does I haven't heard about it.

At one of the hospitals in Texas Lance went to, he still has the record for the highest V02 max ever recorded there. Just think about the fact that he even recovered from cancer( he was one of the worst cases the docs had seen). Have you ever seen someone who is suffering from cancer??? It is terrible, and if you haven't seen it(Someone with suffering from cancer), I don't think you can really imagine it.

Concerning Dr. Ferrari, did you read in Velonews what Lance said about Ferrari? Basically, Dr Ferrari has never actually been convicted of giving cyclists drugs. A rider employing him just said he(Dr. Ferrari) administered him(the cyclist) drugs as a cover up. Everything else about Dr Ferrari is untrue. And in America, with an unbaised justice system, Dr. Ferrari's trial would never have happened. There isn't sufficient evidence to convict him. In fact, there is no evidence. So Lance has decided to stick with Dr. Ferrari because Lance is a loyal person, and isn't scared by the stupid press spreading stupid "Drug abuse" stories about him.

Livestrong interns at work

 

[mewmewmew13]

Livestrong interns at work

It actually reads like 'interns -in -training' at some elementary school , sadly.

 

[ChrisE]

Livestrong interns at work

Do you have proof that these were livestrong interns?

 

[Velodude]

Do you have proof that these were livestrong interns?

Will circumstantial evidence suffice?

 

[ChrisE]

Will circumstantial evidence suffice?

I'm sorry, I was asking RR a direct question since he directly stated who was behind those quotes. I am sure RR can take care of himself.

 

[MarkvW]

Apparently there are people out there who think that Lance had clean rivals while he was winning his Tours during the EPO era. Who were the clean paragons during the EPO era?

 

[Race Radio]

Do you have proof that these were livestrong interns?

When the letter of apology that a former employee wrote is made public you can say you heard it here first.

 

[ChrisE]

Apparently there are people out there who think that Lance had clean rivals while he was winning his Tours during the EPO era. Who were the clean paragons during the EPO era?

Who knows?

They never got tested during that era because LA was spanking them while in yellow.

 

[ChrisE]

When the letter of apology that a former employee wrote is made public you can say you heard it here first.

Bzzzzz, wrong.

You said those quotes from hog were livestrong interns. I know "proof on the come" is good because people tend to forget.

So, you were just making that up?

 

[patricknd]

Apparently there are people out there who think that Lance had clean rivals while he was winning his Tours during the EPO era. Who were the clean paragons during the EPO era?

armstrong was a better responder, haven't you been paying attention?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Apparently there are people out there who think that Lance had clean rivals while he was winning his Tours during the EPO era. Who were the clean paragons during the EPO era?

Who exactly "thinks that"?

 

[thehog]

Livestrong interns at work

Yep it's just crazy. When I read them now it's just astounding that normal people would write such obvious crank. I was holding ground in 1999 and still going strong. Haven't wavered on my position. I told them back them and I'm still telling them.

These days they ignore the subject and bait you into a debate on semantics.

But it's ok. Lance ran a good game of deception. I can see why they're angry with themselves.....

 

[Anonymous]

Apparently there are people out there who think that Lance had clean rivals while he was winning his Tours during the EPO era. Who were the clean paragons during the EPO era?

Apparently, Armstrong was one of them because it was only the "donkeys" who had to dope according to his highness. I see you have little to no actual knowledge of who the defenders of the dope free peloton are/were.

 

[MarkvW]

Apparently, Armstrong was one of them because it was only the "donkeys" who had to dope according to his highness. I see you have little to no actual knowledge of who the defenders of the dope free peloton are/were.

The peloton is and was filthy. Armstrong was one doper among many.

 

[Velodude]

The peloton is and was filthy. Armstrong was one doper among many.

Hence the level playing field defense?

 

[BroDeal]

The peloton is and was filthy. Armstrong was one doper among many.

How many of those bribed the UCI? How many were getting tip-offs about OCC testing? How many of those were getting doping advice from Dr. Ferrari?

I guess it was not much of a level playing field after all.

 

[The Plediadian]

How many of those bribed the UCI? How many were getting tip-offs about OCC testing? How many of those were getting doping advice from Dr. Ferrari?

I guess it was not much of a level playing field after all.

How many bribed sporting bodies? You tell us. No way for us to know. How many got tip offs? Only one we know of for sure is the Cricket, however one can assume in any organized sports there are tip offs.
Ferrari, hmm, give him a call, he might return it.