Internal Garmin Email from Prentice Steffen

[Anonymous]

Good god, is this one still going. How on earth has it made it to page 6?

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Good god, is this one still going. How on earth has it made it to page 6?

How could it not? Rather than p*ssing about AC, there seems to be someone who wants to speak about the niceties of the inner workings of a team.

Or, maybe not. I think they may have 'cut and run' from this discussion...

 

[Martin318is]

JV wrote:



Hello Mods. Can any of you find out if he ever had such a conversation with CN legal?

Why would he have such a discussion and then choose to leave the post up?

The man has all of these opportunities to be direct, yet he always chooses foggy.

From what I understand, CN itself saw the posted email and consulted its own legal department before contacting JV to ask if he wanted it taken down - as is his legal right. He instead chose to be friendly to the forum and discuss it. He gave clear, unambiguous answers to the questions posted ABOUT THE EMAIL and then went back to his job.

So, in my opinion, you have just wasted most of an evening trying to insert ridiculous conspiracy theories into one of the simplest, most bland, and least exciting topics in cycling this week. I mean seriously? An email sent 3 years ago comes out telling riders that the team will NOT let them see their own test values and essentially contradicts the common claim that Garmin use the testing to control the risk of riders testing positive. JV confirms that is what it says. End of story.

but hey - its your life to waste

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

From what I understand, CN itself saw the posted email and consulted its own legal department before contacting JV to ask if he wanted it taken down - as is his legal right. He instead chose to be friendly to the forum and discuss it. He gave clear, unambiguous answers to the questions posted ABOUT THE EMAIL and then went back to his job.

So, in my opinion, you have just wasted most of an evening trying to insert ridiculous conspiracy theories into one of the simplest, most bland, and least exciting topics in cycling this week. I mean seriously? An email sent 3 years ago comes out telling riders that the team will NOT let them see their own test values and essentially contradicts the common claim that Garmin use the testing to control the risk of riders testing positive. JV confirms that is what it says. End of story.

but hey - its your life to waste

I'm going to hold you to that, Marty. And you should bear in mind that I have a lot more time than brains... Wait, I have more brains than time...

Ahh Sh*t!, nope! Yeah, that's it! I can guarantee that I have way more brains than time.

What's the right answer?

Oh yeah, JV's playing us all like a fiddle. I hope you like Stephan Grappeli, cause he's really good...

 

[CowboyTx]

It's good that JV would take the time to come on here and at least enter into reasoned debate. Can't imagine Juan Pelota doing that.

 

[BotanyBay]

From what I understand, CN itself saw the posted email and consulted its own legal department before contacting JV to ask if he wanted it taken down - as is his legal right. He instead chose to be friendly to the forum and discuss it. He gave clear, unambiguous answers to the questions posted ABOUT THE EMAIL and then went back to his job.

So, in my opinion, you have just wasted most of an evening trying to insert ridiculous conspiracy theories into one of the simplest, most bland, and least exciting topics in cycling this week. I mean seriously? An email sent 3 years ago comes out telling riders that the team will NOT let them see their own test values and essentially contradicts the common claim that Garmin use the testing to control the risk of riders testing positive. JV confirms that is what it says. End of story.

but hey - its your life to waste

There are a couple of different ways to interpret the "perceptions and reality" portion of the email.

And because of that, people are free to speculate WHY the email was worded as it was.

God, I hope you look at most things closer than you just did. But then again, I don't think we're on the same page.

Stare at the screen harder. In a few minutes, you'll see the picture of the Stealth Bomber.

 

[BotanyBay]

It's good that JV would take the time to come on here and at least enter into reasoned debate. Can't imagine Juan Pelota doing that.

Yes, quite. How good it was!

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Stare at the screen harder. In a few minutes, you'll see the picture of the Stealth Bomber.

Alright, it's been three minutes of staring... All I've got is a giant raven, and a rainbow flowing into a bucket of mud.

Does that mean I win something?

 

[Jamsque]

Good god, is this one still going. How on earth has it made it to page 6?

Basically my fault. Slow day at work, and no racing to watch.

 

[Mambo95]

There are a couple of different ways to interpret the "perceptions and reality" portion of the email.

It's an internal e-mail bashed out by a doctor, not bleeding Chaucer.

 

[Martin318is]

There are a couple of different ways to interpret the "perceptions and reality" portion of the email.

yes there are - there is the way that a sensible intelligent person would interpret it....

and then there are the other ones.

you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it think.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

yes there are - there is the way that a sensible intelligent person would interpret it....

and then there are the other ones.

you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it think.

Don't be so condescending.

If JV wants to come down in the cellar for a big-boy talk, then he should be prepared to get his nose a bit bloodied when he prances around the natural questions that follow.

The interpretation of the email and its pertinent points can and should be questioned. No one in this sport is above reproach. Not even Monsieur Ascot himself. Beg pardon but until he redresses what are fair and valid questions, he is avoiding the issue, despite sprinkling "transparency" potion on the leaked email.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Don't be so condescending.

If JV wants to come down in the cellar for a big-boy talk, then he should be prepared to get his nose a bit bloodied when he prances around the natural questions that follow.

The interpretation of the email and its pertinent points can and should be questioned. No one in this sport is above reproach. Not even Monsieur Ascot himself. Beg pardon but until he redresses what are fair and valid questions, he is avoiding the issue, despite sprinkling "transparency" potion on the leaked email.

Nicely stated, Colm.

It gave me a moment to think before advocating the head-butting and laying of the boots to the preeminent JV, although his palmares may beg for a finer end to the niceties...

Don't get me wrong, being able to place your points nicely does count for something. But, blatant obfuscation should result in some sort of penalty, even if only in a forum...

If he would like to play, you know he has to pay...

Who is actually buying his retorts?

Nonetheless, I'm sure the leprechauns would like their book back. I'd better go...

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Don't be so condescending.

If JV wants to come down in the cellar for a big-boy talk, then he should be prepared to get his nose a bit bloodied when he prances around the natural questions that follow.

The interpretation of the email and its pertinent points can and should be questioned. No one in this sport is above reproach. Not even Monsieur Ascot himself. Beg pardon but until he redresses what are fair and valid questions, he is avoiding the issue, despite sprinkling "transparency" potion on the leaked email.

I'm really hoping "Monsieur Ascot" sticks. That's the perfect pseduo for him...

 

[RGScales]

I am somewhat puzzled as to why a clean rider would need to know wether his ACE tests are ok. with UCI checks surely it's not likely to be health related.

I am sure that a bunch of people on these posts claim to be some type of professional cyclist whether or not they actually are or were is debatable. I was, however, a USA CYCLING CAT 1 cyclist for a couple of years before realizing that was as far as I was going to get and I decided to "get a real job" (terrible mistake...miss it badly)
With that said, I can shed some light into the question of why a cyclist would be interested in their blood values if they were clean. I, personally, have a naturally high red blood cell level. While I was a CAT 1 I bought an altitude tent and slept in it to keep my values at the absolute highest limit. It would have been very easy for me to, through legal means, to go above the legal threshold. Also, i know people personally that took supplements that actually were tainted...it really does happen. It is in the manufacturers best interest to come out with a product that produces results. Since, in the states, supplements are not regulated by the FDA occasionally anabolics find they're way into them.
My take on this email, if it is genuine, is that it is not a smoking gun and is simply explaining to riders why they are not privy to these results. I happen to agree with the reasoning and I think that this email may be in response to pressure that riders were getting from the press to show more transparency.
Thats my two cents anyhow...take it for what its worth.

 

[Polish]

The "leaked e-mail" is three years old.

How does it compare to the current system in place there - anyone know?

First, the people who have access to the data are ACE, JV, and all members of the team's medical/science staff. As part of our
transparency policy, we have offered to make data available to
journalists upon formal request... a couple of you have already been
involved in that process. That is a very limited and controlled
process, so don't worry that journalist have free access to the
numbers.

Is ACE still there?
Different medical/science staff?
Procedures changed?

 

[Granville57]

Is ACE still there?
Different medical/science staff?
Procedures changed?

Nope.
http://velonews.competitor.com/2008/11/news/the-agency-for-cycling-ethics-ace-has-closed_85072

Two gems here from November 2008:

The Agency for Cycling Ethics has shut down, leaving the Garmin-Chipotle, BMC and Columbia teams hustling to line up a new independent doping testing provider for their riders.

Strauss’ co-founder, Paul Scott, split from the company in March, forming a new company, Scott Analytics, which consults with the Rock Racing team.

 

[Willy_Voet]

Don't be so condescending.

If JV wants to come down in the cellar for a big-boy talk, then he should be prepared to get his nose a bit bloodied when he prances around the natural questions that follow.

The interpretation of the email and its pertinent points can and should be questioned. No one in this sport is above reproach. Not even Monsieur Ascot himself. Beg pardon but until he redresses what are fair and valid questions, he is avoiding the issue, despite sprinkling "transparency" potion on the leaked email.

Seriously? The cellar? Big-boy talk? Bloodied nose? Monsieur Ascot?

I'm sure JV will be back to address your questions...no matter how shrill the tone.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Seriously? The cellar? Big-boy talk? Bloodied nose? Monsieur Ascot?

I'm sure JV will be back to address your questions...no matter how shrill the tone.

He does seem a tad pedantic.

 

[Kennf1]

He does seem a tad pedantic.

Imagine how Bruyneel or Riis would seem if they came onto the forum, which of course they won't.

Everyone thinks JV is hiding something because he won't give them a full-on interview. Some people think the e-mail is suspicious on its face, others didn't think it was suspicious, until JV explained it. Now it must be suspicious because JV is commenting on it. Some people think he is being condescending because of his tone in responding to people who are basically accusing him running team-sponsored doping. Go figure.

Seriously, why JV bothers with this forum is beyond me.

 

[blackcat]

It's an internal e-mail bashed out by a doctor, not bleeding Chaucer.

if this Chaucer fellow is bleeding, one should render first aid and apply a bandage

 

[blackcat]

is monsieur ascot JV or Wigans?

can you clarify Colm.

I prefer Wigans personally. I ran with that. or at a stretch, Ascot prat.


JV should be Ambrose muttonchop, in pastiche of Ambrose Burnside US Civil ware general of whom sideburns took the eponymous moniker.

 

[blackcat]

Imagine how Bruyneel or Riis would seem if they came onto the forum, which of course they won't.

Everyone thinks JV is hiding something because he won't give them a full-on interview. Some people think the e-mail is suspicious on its face, others didn't think it was suspicious, until JV explained it. Now it must be suspicious because JV is commenting on it. Some people think he is being condescending because of his tone in responding to people who are basically accusing him running team-sponsored doping. Go figure.

Seriously, why JV bothers with this forum is beyond me.

seems everything is beyond you Ken, don't tax the grey matter and have an apopleptic fit will ya!

 

[rata de sentina]

I can't believe this thread is still going.

Don't be so condescending.

If JV wants to come down in the cellar for a big-boy talk, then he should be prepared to get his nose a bit bloodied when he prances around the natural questions that follow.

The interpretation of the email and its pertinent points can and should be questioned. No one in this sport is above reproach. Not even Monsieur Ascot himself. Beg pardon but until he redresses what are fair and valid questions, he is avoiding the issue, despite sprinkling "transparency" potion on the leaked email.

Maybe he doesn't want to subject himself to a 'discussion' with a person with such a propensity for misinterpretation, hyperbole and bitter rhetoric.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Imagine how Bruyneel or Riis would seem if they came onto the forum, which of course they won't.

Everyone thinks JV is hiding something because he won't give them a full-on interview. Some people think the e-mail is suspicious on its face, others didn't think it was suspicious, until JV explained it. Now it must be suspicious because JV is commenting on it. Some people think he is being condescending because of his tone in responding to people who are basically accusing him running team-sponsored doping. Go figure.

Seriously, why JV bothers with this forum is beyond me.

Whoa, easy turbo, I said he was pedantic I didn't say he was wrong. JV comes here because he thinks he can sway public opinion by spending a few minutes prevaricating here. It's a win win because even if he is outed it's only the clinic who will believe it.