Is Andy Schleck being criticised too much lately?

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

wiggins is no good downhiller at all. not very bad either but average at most.

He's very risk averse though, which makes him a bad one, IMO. He lost too much time in the Dauphine and Vuelta TTs to be considered average.

 

[La Pandera]

contador didn't pay attention to nibali at all as he wasn't a threat at any given time after etna. nibali is a daredevil and yes out of 10 downhils you are going to have some good ones but also some bad ones. he very overrated 100% and nothing like near the best downhiller sof the peloton. I believe there was a poll amonst riders one time who was the best downhiller and hushovd and jj haedo were most voted and nibali didn't get a single vote

Could that possibly be because most of the riders voting are nowhere near riders like Nibali when the reach they summit before the actual descents to witness their downhill prowess? Just asking. Is it determined via word of mouth?

 

[HL2037]

Could that possibly be because most of the riders voting are nowhere near riders like Nibali when the reach they summit before the actual descents to witness their downhill prowess? Just asking. Is it determined via word of mouth?

Couple of years ago somebody made a survey among the DSs at the tour about who was best at descending. I think Thor Hushovd won it followed by Cancellara.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Could that possibly be because most of the riders voting are nowhere near riders like Nibali when the reach they summit before the actual descents to witness their downhill prowess? Just asking. Is it determined via word of mouth?

I would just assume most riders themselves know what great downhillers are. more than us

 

[theyoungest]

Could that possibly be because most of the riders voting are nowhere near riders like Nibali when the reach they summit before the actual descents to witness their downhill prowess? Just asking. Is it determined via word of mouth?

I'm sure Hushovd and Haedo go down a hill faster than Nibali... most riders are also likely to be outdescended by their soigneurs who weigh 20 kilos more.

 

[movingtarget]

Yes, but Menchov and Andy are much of a muchness. Sometimes (eg Jausiers 2008) Andy will be better, other times (eg Bagnères de Luchon 2010) Denis will be better. I don't see Menchov doing any attacking on any descent to exploit the weakness though. He might gain time if he follows somebody else's attack though.

Menchov has the edge. He crashes uphill. Admitedly there was water on the road ! Schleck is saying now that he will try and tweak his TT position but is not willing to train on descents because it's too dangerous. No wonder he is a poor descender in race conditions when he won't ride them when the roads are relatively clear. If only Schleck could TT like Menchov then the descents would not matter so much.

 

[sky forever]

There is daredevil descending and then there is this.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfMQdFGTKAs&feature=youtube_gdata_player

And this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIe6hYAdw_I

 

[HL2037]

And this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIe6hYAdw_I

OMFG! Don't watch this without wearing a helmet

 

[sky forever]

OMFG! Don't watch this without wearing a helmet

It is insane. The worst part was when the dog ran infront of him.

 

[HL2037]

Yes, and also when he took a shortcut out in the thin air and landed further down the parcour.

 

[cineteq]

Bruyneel's video on how to drag Andy down the hole of no return...all for the sake of hungry sponsors

 

[Publicus]

There is daredevil descending and then there is this.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfMQdFGTKAs&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I'm pretty sure at least one of those dudes came in his pants during that.

 

[ultimobici]

I find it amusing that AS is naive enough to tell his opponents where to attack him.

Schleck explained that he had already begun efforts to tweak his time trial position, but he was less enthusiastic about working on his descending, in spite of his travails on the road to Gap and Pinerolo last July.

"I don't really know how you should train descents. I think that it's a little too dangerous to train on," he said.

Even if he can limit his losses in the TT to 20 seconds per 40km, all contador, Evans & co need do is attack him full bore on the descents. His lack of confidence in his abilities may lead him to lose more time than he can amass on the climbs. Coupled with significantly more TT distance this could prove fatal.

 

[Captain_Cavman]

He's very risk averse though, which makes him a bad one, IMO. He lost too much time in the Dauphine and Vuelta TTs to be considered average.

I agree, it is a big weak spot and another reason why he needs more support in the mountains than Evans or Contador.

Actually considering his background of track and training in the UK, it is amazing he is not worse than he is.

 

[hfer07]

on descending skills: Now that Andy is being coached by "Spaniard expertise" He "must" watch this one & learn by heart how to descend fearlessly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqy6jFZzYd0

 

[Libertine Seguros]

If Arroyo went up against Schleck in that kind of environment they'd get to Edolo with Arroyo having a 2 minute advantage.

Not that Schleck would have been attacking on the mountain anyway, since he doesn't care about the Giro.

 

[greenedge]

Even if he can limit his losses in the TT to 20 seconds per 40km, all contador, Evans & co need do is attack him full bore on the descents. His lack of confidence in his abilities may lead him to lose more time than he can amass on the climbs. Coupled with significantly more TT distance this could prove fatal.

Andy should send teammates up the road ( attack to reach them ) then get the teammate to wait and then guide him down. The odds are likely they will be caught. Also his team will have to not attack so much on those stages ( as they then need riders to guide the Shlecks down )

 

[Zam_Olyas]

And Ullrich retired with a palmarès nothing like the one his talent merited. In 50 years' time when our generations of cyclists are the distant past, Paolo fricking Savoldelli will be better remembered than Jan.

Andy, for all his skills, has a Liège-Bastogne-Liège victory and nothing else to point to. That is the only illustrious race his name can go in the winner's list of. Given that he's racing alongside Contador (who races to win every month until July), Evans and Valverde (who both race to win at all times), and yet still are able to compete with him, and in the case of the first two beat him, at the only race he really goes for, maybe some reappraisal is needed. After all, these guys accumulate a much better palmarès for half a season... then they beat him in Le Tour... then they continue to accumulate a better palmarès for the rest of the year too. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for his approach

No love for Paolo?

 

[Vino attacks everyone]

No love for Paolo?

yea, Paolo was an amazing rider, mybe not legend material, but he would fight for top 5 in every tour and top 3 in every giro we have had the last year if he was still around (and younger )

 

[TheEnoculator]

I agree with many posters here about Andy Schleck's spoiled personality. It's been over a year after the Chaingate incident and if you ask him now about it, he'll still blame Contador for it. If it was the other way around, Contador would have let it go and moved on long time ago. When Contador was held up by the crash in this year's Tour and lost over a minute, he never complained. You can't be a Tour champion and spoiled brat. Maturity is important in winning grand tours.

Andy is a talented climber, which is all he is. He talks and whines way too much, and sometimes he should just shut up and ride.

Besides, all this talk about Andy winning 2012 Tour by Bruyneel is empty talk. Even if Contador were to miss the Tour, there are still Evans, Wiggins, Menchov, Leipheimer, and all these all-rounders there. The 2012 Tour was designed to give TT guys a go at the GC, not climbers, so how the heck can Andy expect to win after being with Bruyneel for a few months? This is not Hogwarts School of Cycling.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

I agree with many posters here about Andy Schleck's spoiled personality. It's been over a year after the Chaingate incident and if you ask him now about it, he'll still blame Contador for it. If it was the other way around, Contador would have let it go and moved on long time ago. When Contador was held up by the crash in this year's Tour and lost over a minute, he never complained. You can't be a Tour champion and spoiled brat. Maturity is important in winning grand tours.

Andy is a talented climber, which is all he is. He talks and whines way too much, and sometimes he should just shut up and ride.

Besides, all this talk about Andy winning 2012 Tour by Bruyneel is empty talk. Even if Contador were to miss the Tour, there are still Evans, Wiggins, Menchov, Leipheimer, and all these all-rounders there. The 2012 Tour was designed to give TT guys a go at the GC, not climbers, so how the heck can Andy expect to win after being with Bruyneel for a few months? This is not Hogwarts School of Cycling.

With Headmaster Johan it is

 

[Libertine Seguros]

No love for Paolo?

I like Paolo a lot. But let's not kid ourselves - Ullrich was a better cyclist, and had the skills that said he should be better remembered. But Il Falco, when he wasn't topping the charts with Rock Me Amadeus and the even more epic Jeanny, accumulated a palmarès of wins which will be well-remembered once the lists of placements and other podium riders are forgotten.

Quick - who was 2nd in the 1958 Tour? 1961? You might have known that Charly Gaul and Jacques Anquetil won those respective editions. But I'd be mighty impressed if you knew Vito Favero and Guido Carlesi were the respective runners-up.

 

[issoisso]

I like Paolo a lot. But let's not kid ourselves - Ullrich was a better cyclist, and had the skills that said he should be better remembered. But Il Falco, when he wasn't topping the charts with Rock Me Amadeus and the even more epic Jeanny, accumulated a palmarès of wins which will be well-remembered once the lists of placements and other podium riders are forgotten.

Quick - who was 2nd in the 1958 Tour? 1961? You might have known that Charly Gaul and Jacques Anquetil won those respective editions. But I'd be mighty impressed if you knew Vito Favero and Guido Carlesi were the respective runners-up.

1985 Vuelta:

Pedro Delgado: Why didn't you guys chase me to protect your second place?
Pacho Rodriguez: Who was 2nd in the '83 Vuelta?
Pedro Delgado: I have no idea
Pacho Rodriguez: Exactly. 2nd place, 3rd place, who cares. Enjoy your win


(Although to be fair, Pacho later admitted that part of the reason they didn't chase was because midway through the stage Millar turned to them and said in a grandiose tone "You guys tried your best, but I'm afraid I was just better. Good luck next year")

 

[cineteq]

Besides, all this talk about Andy winning 2012 Tour by Bruyneel is empty talk. Even if Contador were to miss the Tour, there are still Evans, Wiggins, Menchov, Leipheimer, and all these all-rounders there. The 2012 Tour was designed to give TT guys a go at the GC, not climbers, so how the heck can Andy expect to win after being with Bruyneel for a few months? This is not Hogwarts School of Cycling.

Egos and Sponsors are driving this nonsense. The sad thing is that Andy is buying into it...The Hog have no mercy.

PS: Now I'm hearing Klodi for the Giro???

 

[Mambo95]

Quick - who was 2nd in the 1958 Tour? 1961? You might have known that Charly Gaul and Jacques Anquetil won those respective editions. But I'd be mighty impressed if you knew Vito Favero and Guido Carlesi were the respective runners-up.

Quick - who won the Giro in 1958? 1961? Answer - similarly forgotten Italians remembered only by real cycling nerds.

Everyone remembers Poulidor though. And it's not for winning the Viuelta.