Is Armstrong a psychopath?

[powerste]

Yeah. I'm just talking ****. Sometimes the normal humdrum of 'we've finally got him this time' is too much to take.

I do pity him though. And I really don't know why. It's odd.

For me, it's because to some extent, he got in over his head in much the same way as many other riders in the beginning. But whatever pity he deserved for being caught up by the status quo evaporated pretty quickly when he decided to max it out to the extent that he did.

The other pitiable piece is his current state. While I think the truth needs to come out (and I'm pretty sure it's gonna be ugly for him), I do not relish watching another human being fall apart as the gulf between perception and reality becomes too vast to bridge, even when said human is personally responsible for that gulf. Instructive? Yes. Pleasurable? Not so much.

 

[Maxiton]

Yeah. I'm just talking ****. Sometimes the normal humdrum of 'we've finally got him this time' is too much to take.

I do pity him though. And I really don't know why. It's odd.

Might have something to do with the fact that you're not a psycopath.

 

[The Hitch]

Item 5 Cunning/manipulative = yes

Armstrong is anything but cunning an manipulative.

He just says " i never tested positive **** you".

Too me he doesnt seem to think things through. Does as he pleases then lies to defend it and its the strength of his fans loyalty to him that helps him out, rather than the strength of the lies which are actually quite weak.

Would a cunning pschychopath attack Simeoni that way in 04. Would a cunning pschychopath needlessly antagonise Sastre and VDV. Would a cunning pschycho leave open loose ends like Landis instead of talking to him.

Someone who thinks things through would not do this. theyd think "what does it get me if i tell VDV hes ****, what do i get if i humiliate Simeoni that way- NOTHING".

But that doesnt stop Armstrong. He wants something, he takes it, then figures out the problems later.

No cunning to it.

 

[Neworld]

Armstrong is anything but cunning an manipulative.

He just says " i never tested positive **** you".

Too me he doesnt seem to think things through.
(snip) Someone who thinks things through would not do this. theyd think "what does it get me if i tell VDV hes ****, what do i get if i humiliate Simeoni that way- NOTHING".

But that doesnt stop Armstrong. He wants something, he takes it, then figures out the problems later.

No cunning to it.

Its incontrovertible to deny that LA is evil, untrustworthy and unscrupulous. Why not just give Landis a job last year and avoid all this? Why not dampen your rancour when speaking to other riders, journalist, GL, D. Pound, P. Kimmage, D. Walsh, M. Ashenden, cycling authorities, Lawyers ...

I have two questions for the LA sympathizers:
1. Can you see LA in the roll as Jim Jones or some other sociopath leading a group of followers? (don't drink the purple Koolaid) Saying whatever it takes to hide a lie(s) and drag others into dark corners for his own personal gain?

2. Could you trust LA to make a critical social decision? In the capacity of a political or social leader knowing all the levels of deceit and corruption he's been involved in both directly and indirectly. I ask this because although he is a simple sports person on one level, he has propogated a belief that he is more than that. That he is a beacon of Cancer awareness and inspiration to dying cancer patients. Patients that would have found inspiration in ANOTHER 'real' genuine, honest, cancer survivor...and sent their personal funds to ANOTHER cancer research foundation (and one could argue that a higher percentage of funds would have actually made it to those foundations instead of LA's pockets)

Some readers think so called LA-haters (more like promoters of fairness and equality) are unwarranted...but in order to affront someone like Lance, and his collection of dregs, you must provide an equal counterforce.

NW

 

[mastersracer]

My research overlaps this area. The idea that all sociopaths (or ASPD) are cunning isn't accurate. Impulsiveness and irritability are standard criteria. Adrian Raine, an expert in the area, actually recruits his experimental subjects by placing an ad in a temporary hiring agency, since sociopaths have difficulty keeping a job due to conflicts in the workplace. Raine finds a reduction in prefrontal cortex volume among his subjects, which he links to impulsivity and imparied executive function. It's also worth keeping in mind that mental illnesses are typically spectrum disorders, meaning indviduals vary both in the cluster of traits they present and severity.

I don't know of a study on this, but I wouldn't be surprised if ASPD was over-represented in sports, especially among top players. Players may do OK within the confines of the sport, but many have significant off field problems that are indicative of APSD. Pathological gambling is also thought to be comorbid with APSD.

 

[VeloFidelis]

True, the hate directed at Greg Lemond, Tyler, Floyd, Betsy, etc does get a little absurd sometimes.

And true as well that much of the vitriol and crass distain directed at Armstrong is way over the top. While I'm sure it feels good to lash out on the world wide interweb, it makes those who do it far more like Lance than they want to know.

What's the point? His karmic cataclysm is well at hand. He is going down hard. And it will be global disgrace and condemnation the likes of which we have never seen in sport. It will make Tiger Woods' fall look trivial. I for one, will sit back and watch with great satisfaction the unraveling of an icon, and the exposure of the machinery that created and insulated him.

I don't want to expend the time and energy to spew hatred about the injustice of Lance Armstrong. My delight will be watching fate and the wheels of justice grind his entire historical episode into pulp, along with Bruyneel, Verbruggen, McQuaid and the rest.

My only regret is that professional cycling is going to take a massive hit as well. I believe it's future will be better for all of this, but those days will be a long way off.

 

[La Pandera]

+1 Someday they will realize his true greatness though. I can only prey for the haterz at this time. prey that they can have HIS greatness fullfill them with HIS greatness.

Usually one reserves capitalizing "HIS" for what some belief as our devine creator, otherwise known as God. Are you comparing Armstrong to a devine being?

 

[La Pandera]

i think antilance means that in your mind LA is already in jail,you dont need closed case,you just know that he has done everything u read or everything that has been said by hamilton,andreu,his wife,other ppl i dont even remember

and if someone has different opinion what u do? u start to ridicule the poster as you showed in your next post

while i believe LA took PED (like the majority of peloton in last 20 years) i am nowhere near to accept automaticaly that everything i read in newspapers is true because it fits my case,also it would never occured to me to start threads like is LA psycopath or campaign against his sponsors...WTF is that? it sooooo way out of proportion

the best part ofc is that while many ppl pingpong their own theories about LA which being theories are probably nowhere near truth,in the same time those ppl are fans of other sports star that are guilty of same "crimes" as LA

when first accusations came from various sources i didnt believe it,then with landis etc. i began to think theres something wrong and LA should be punished (like other dopers)...but the more i read stupid haters not only on this forum who are taking it too far the more i want the investigation to be closed with no evidence of wrongdoin...that day i will laugh my a55 off

So you allow these "stupid haters" to sway your opinion of how you hope the
investigation ultimately ends?

 

[mewmewmew13]

The vendettas and vindictiveness of some people on here are funny and sad. I troll these threads and am amazed at the hate people spew. Whether the criticism and accusations are warranted or not, some people need to spend more time on their bike and less time posting inane threads.

Well, you are reading inane threads.

Oh, and number 15: Irresponsibility-----yes
known to blow through stopsigns and red lights while out carousing with the boys

 

[breakaway]

Perhaps it just manifested itself over time? The accumulation of acts, the exposition and reveal, make you think he has gotten crazier. Simpler thesis to start would be this was the person as an adolescent, that was always going to be the adult

To expand upon your thesis, perhaps it's just another case of washed up athlete syndrome, which occurs when a superstar athlete bred to be a narcissistic egomaniac as a natural byproduct of coming up through the ranks of the sport as a child superstar, is forced to retire from his/her chosen profession at an earlier age than mere mortals due to the body's physical limitations and thus cannot deal with their being put to their sport's proverbial pasture, since it is their only sense of identity and self-esteem. It's a known, documented sports psychology phenomenon. Look it up.

 

[breakaway]

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[flicker]

And true as well that much of the vitriol and crass distain directed at Armstrong is way over the top. While I'm sure it feels good to lash out on the world wide interweb, it makes those who do it far more like Lance than they want to know.

What's the point? His karmic cataclysm is well at hand. He is going down hard. And it will be global disgrace and condemnation the likes of which we have never seen in sport. It will make Tiger Woods' fall look trivial. I for one, will sit back and watch with great satisfaction the unraveling of an icon, and the exposure of the machinery that created and insulated him.

I don't want to expend the time and energy to spew hatred about the injustice of Lance Armstrong. My delight will be watching fate and the wheels of justice grind his entire historical episode into pulp, along with Bruyneel, Verbruggen, McQuaid and the rest.

My only regret is that professional cycling is going to take a massive hit as well. I believe it's future will be better for all of this, but those days will be a long way off.

Why not just be honest. It is all about Armstrong, American, more tour wins than LeMond, wealthy, popular, his somewhat willful persona,sniping at our hero Novitzky. It is not about doping, nor selling a few TREKs on the side.
It is about the Axel of evil, Dr. Ferrari. It is about a personal distaste, for a man who has conquered blonde. It is about successful American sporting companies, globalization of sports, bringing the sport to China, India and the USA. It is about people riding bikes without a biggoted hate of Armstrong, Bruyneel and success with their international cycling teams.Even those whippersnappers from California have the audacity to have an 8 days stage race.
Face your demons.

At least you are honest about one thing. Going after Armstrong will hurt cycling(amateur and professional.)
That is OK, big waste of time anyhow.LOL

 

[mastersracer]

At least you are honest about one thing. Going after Armstrong will hurt cycling(amateur and professional.)
That is OK, big waste of time anyhow.LOL

not at all - if Armstrong is indicted, it will send a chilling message to the cycling community that even the more powerful and wealthy figure in the sport is not above the law. Maybe most importantly, it will help change the perception of doping from an action that is thought in terms of internal sanctions to a crime with significant consequences in terms of financial and criminal liability.

 

[D-Queued]

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[flicker]

not at all - if Armstrong is indicted, it will send a chilling message to the cycling community that even the more powerful and wealthy figure in the sport is not above the law. Maybe most importantly, it will help change the perception of doping from an action that is thought in terms of internal sanctions to a crime with significant consequences in terms of financial and criminal liability.

Could be. I havne't really seen it much. Astana,medical waste, still rode the tour. Phonak...hmmm.
I can see American sponsors running for the exits, as cycling is a fringe sport here anyway, the sporting equipment they sell does not relate specifically towards racing. What the Europeans do not understand is in the US it is all about the money and marketing, and the corporations do not want a market represented by druggies. I was at the Tour of California and the crowds do not compare to baseball or football. Those sports would love to see an up and comer, maybe a competitor for their fan base, fall flat on its face.

 

[VeloFidelis]

Why not just be honest. It is all about Armstrong, American, more tour wins than LeMond, wealthy, popular, his somewhat willful persona,sniping at our hero Novitzky. It is not about doping, nor selling a few TREKs on the side.
It is about the Axel of evil, Dr. Ferrari. It is about a personal distaste, for a man who has conquered blonde. It is about successful American sporting companies, globalization of sports, bringing the sport to China, India and the USA. It is about people riding bikes without a biggoted hate of Armstrong, Bruyneel and success with their international cycling teams.Even those whippersnappers from California have the audacity to have an 8 days stage race.
Face your demons.

At least you are honest about one thing. Going after Armstrong will hurt cycling(amateur and professional.)
That is OK, big waste of time anyhow.LOL

Hmmm... Since time is the measure of success, let's check back in a year and see what the world thinks of Armstrong and Bruyneel. It should be a great exercise.

And since your mostly incoherent drivel is obviously not inspired by, or bothers to address, any of the content of my post, I'd appreciate it if you'd just post your nonsensical bullsh!t as your own misguided idea of independent thought, and spare me the pain of being even remotely association with it.

Conquered blonde?!!!...Really?!! What a tool!

 

[flicker]

Hmmm... Since time is the measure of success, let's check back in a year and see what the world thinks of Armstrong and Bruyneel. It should be a great exercise.

And since your mostly incoherent drivel is obviously not inspired by, or bothers to address, any of the content of my post, I'd appreciate it if you'd just post your nonsensical bullsh!t as your own misguided idea of independent thought, and spare me the pain of being even remotely association with it.

Conquered blonde?!!!...Really?!! What a tool!

Let me put it another way, I like what Armstrong has accomplished. If you do not like him, or heaven forbid hate him, please be my guest and erase him from your thought batteries. I am only saying this because i respect you, I do not want you to feel pain.....

 

[D-Queued]

Let me put it another way, I like what Armstrong has accomplished. If you do not like him, or heaven forbid hate him, please be my guest and erase him from your thought batteries. I am only saying this because i respect you, I do not want you to feel pain.....

Thanks flicker.

I don't like what Lance represents in the sport of cycling, and how his 'success' directs the sport.

I cannot 'erase him from my thought batteries'. To do so would just create the opportunity for another Lance. We have to learn from our mistakes, and from history. Or, as the saying goes, we are bound to repeat it.

On the one hand, Lance is the Festina heir. He learned the lesson that you can cheat as much as you want if you can evade capture. That is rewarded.

A local team passed my car today when they were out for a training ride. I looked at them and thought of Lance. Who among them hopes to emulate his 'success'? All of them? Are they all hoping that someone will put them on the white lunch bag list?

I don't like that.

Dave.

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

This thread has gotten way out of line. I am closing it clean it out and may or may not re-open it.

Susan