Is Armstrong about to admit

[jimmypop]

That's huge. Its the "oh s-it" moment for Lance. He so f+rked right now. I thought a deal was being done. But no. Its jail time. And its all going to spread across the news.

Armstrong feigned hardball, and now he's going to pay the price for fvcking with a determined federal prosecutor.

Couldn't happen to a more unlikeable, unrepentant sports cheat.

 

[jimmypop]

This is very very very big. In a matter of minutes I've seen it hit about 30 mainstream news sources.

More here:
Citing anonymous sources, The Journal reported in a story posted on its website Friday that Landis has filed a suit under the federal False Claims Act. The law allows Americans to sue on behalf of the government alleging the government has been defrauded.

Armstrong should have seen this coming when he tried to bankrupt Lemond. Now Lemond will get his due through proxy.

 

[jimmypop]

the long story short, not only the two postal riders confirmation of flandis's accusations is driving this new case but also in all probability mcilvan has broken down too.

There's almost no question she's given in at this point. She initially lied under oath to keep her job and to maintain her family (there's a disabled family member to consider, and rumors of financial support from LA), and now she'll have to tell investigators what she knows or risk separation from her family. A sad irony.

 

[thehog]

Armstrong should have seen this coming when he tried to bankrupt Lemond. Now Lemond will get his due through proxy.

The key being there will be a courtroom showdown between Lance and Floyd. Going to be great viewing!

 

[Parrot23]

go betsy !

Wonder if she used a RadioShack tape recorder

The Shack carries a range of nifty tools, LOL.

 

[theswordsman]

Here's all Fabiani could come up with:

''This news that Floyd Landis is in this for the money reconfirms everything we all knew about Landis,'' Armstrong spokesman Mark Fabiani said Friday night in a statement. ''By his own admission, he is a serial liar, an epic cheater, and a swindler who raised and took almost a million dollars from his loyal fans based on his lies. What remains a complete mystery is why the government would devote a penny of the taxpayer's money to help Floyd Landis further his vile, cheating ambitions. And all aimed directly at Lance Armstrong, a man who earned every victory and passed every test while working for cancer survivors all over the world.''

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/09/03/sports/AP-CYC-Armstrong-Doping.html?_r=1

I've never seen that Landis "by his own admission" described himself as "an epic cheater". In cycling terms, he was pretty much a run of the mill cheater. Come to think of it, the spokesman seems to have picked up Lance's routine of projecting Armstrong's bad traits onto the adversary in the press. Serial liar, epic cheater, swindler - if I was playing a party game and those were the clues, I know who my guess would be.

Edit: Some sources mentioned it as a possibility in late May. I thought Landis denied it in the very early days, but he probably would have had to do that anyway. But if you file a lawsuit, doesn't someone have to serve papers to the other side? Or maybe in the whistle blower situation that happens later in the game?

Expert: Floyd Landis could be protected, and rewarded, by whistleblower law

By Steve Frothingham • Updated: May 27th 2010 8:37 AM EDT

The nature — and even existence — of the reported federal investigation into Floyd Landis’ claims against Lance Armstrong and others is unknown. But a San Francisco lawyer who specializes in bringing fraud suits against government contractors says Landis could be acting as a whistleblower for a False Claims Act suit.

If that’s the case, Landis could be protected from some prosecution and could receive up to 30 percent of any judgment from a successful claim based on his information. And the judgment could be huge: a person found to have broken the False Claims Act is liable for a fine of between $5,000 and $10,000 and three times the actual damages.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2010...-—-and-rewarded-—-by-whistleblower-law_118741

 

[oldschoolnik]

In all these whistle blower cases is the whistle blower usually as complicit in the crimes or fraud as Landis was when he was at Postal? I know in many of the cases the whistle blowers were part of the fraud but usually at a low level like a mid level accountant who fudged numbers on behalf of the CEO for example - this seems like where Floyd would stand.

I disagree with the majority here though about how this will play - I think in the court of public opinion this will be continually be spun as "here's Floyd's motive, it was money after all" - this will unfortunately resonate with people, who are just looking for something to defend their hero with.

 

[oldschoolnik]

Yeah, you could be right. I really don't care if he is convicted of anything. I simply want there to be enough "common sense" testimony/evidence for the general public to believe that he doped--I want him convicted in the court of public opinion.

+++1
This is my sentiment exactly. This would be better than jail time IMHO.

On a separate note I don't see how this news about a whistle blower lawsuit makes it any more likely that a guy with $50 million in the bank will do jail time. When Clemens was testifying in the steroid scandal all the senators and representatives wanted their picture with him and he was not nearly as revered as Lance.

 

[Neworld]

I think in the court of public opinion this will be continually be spun as "here's Floyd's motive, it was money after all" - this will unfortunately resonate with people, who are just looking for something to defend their hero with.

This negative Landis interpretation may come into play.

If Landis is actually attacking LA maybe it would be wise, at a strategic date, for Floyd to offer up a significant amount of money:

Back to the government.
To establish improvements for USADA and WADA...

NW

 

[theswordsman]

I disagree with the majority here though about how this will play - I think in the court of public opinion this will be continually be spun as "here's Floyd's motive, it was money after all" - this will unfortunately resonate with people, who are just looking for something to defend their hero with.

It won't be put to a public vote. I've been saying that Floyd's part in the investigation ended once he lit the match and provided details, so I couldn't see why everyone continued to focus on badmouthing Landis. I guess this might be the reason.

If the Justice Department does decide to run with the ball on the lawsuit, the FDA investigation and grand jury continue, and agencies in Europe get involved in their own countries, this could turn into a game of Whack A Mole for Fabiani and the lawyers. Before they can respond to one attack, something unexpected will pop up elsewhere.

And a lot of the same people will probably have to testify under oath for both the grand jury and the lawsuit, so there's more pressure on them, especially since the lawsuit would presumably be public. Right now people with knowledge of what went down over the years don't know what other people are testifying in the closed court room. If someone is dumb enough to lie in public, I think other people would be on the phone to the prosecutor calling shenanigans.

More and more non-cycling fans are hearing details repeatedly from non-cycling sources. Men's Journal is coming soon. And Clemens was just a doper who lied about it. He used his own money, didn't claim over and over in the press that he was the only one who didn't dope, didn't bribe Major League Baseball, didn't win lawsuits against people who claimed he did dope, or stop people from publishing books or stories about him doping, didn't (that I know of) dope in countries where it's illegal, or give doping products to employees or teammates, or import the substances himself, possibly have illegal syringes and infusion products not legal in France, offer bribes to let him win a race and big bonus, threaten other people in the sport, and the whole long laundry list.

 

[thehog]

I disagree with the majority here though about how this will play - I think in the court of public opinion this will be continually be spun as "here's Floyd's motive, it was money after all" - this will unfortunately resonate with people, who are just looking for something to defend their hero with.

I can see Floyd taking the money and giving it back to those from the Floyd fairness fund. Then donating a good proportion to an alternate cancer charity. Then keeping a small amount to live by.

 

[Neworld]

I can see Floyd taking the money and giving it back to those from the Floyd fairness fund. Then donating a good proportion to an alternate cancer charity. Then keeping a small amount to live by.

Yes. Floyd if you're out there, listen to the Hog he sounds reasonable.

NW

 

[theswordsman]

I can see Floyd taking the money and giving it back to those from the Floyd fairness fund. Then donating a good proportion to an alternate cancer charity. Then keeping a small amount to live by.

That would be great in a lot of ways.

The night keeps getting better:

Lance Armstrong and his closest supporters are named as defendants in a whistle-blower lawsuit Armstrong's former teammate Floyd Landis brought under the federal False Claims Act earlier this year but kept confidential until now.

Landis, who has accused Armstrong of hardcore doping, named Armstrong and his corporate backers Bart Knaggs, Bill Stapleton, and Thom Weisel in the complaint, according to a person familiar with the situation, as well as Johan Bruyneel, the sport director who oversaw Armstrong's teams.

The complaint was first reported by The Wall Street Journal. Details of the lawsuit remain under seal, but a person with knowledge of the case said defendants were recently notified of it by the Justice Department.

Other defendants include Tailwind Sports Corporation, Tailwind LLC, Montgomery Sports, Inc., and Capital Sports and Entertainment - all corporate entities that backed Armstrong's teams over the past decade.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/m...dants_including_lance_armstrong_in_floyd.html

 

[thehog]

That would be great in a lot of ways.

The night keeps getting better:



http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/m...dants_including_lance_armstrong_in_floyd.html

I just can't see how Armstrong is going to work his way around this one. He has to go on the stand. So do all the former team-mates, Kik Armstrong etc. He can't just sit there under oath and lie. Nice set up by Floyd. He's got Lance cornered. Can't see a way around it.

 

[henryg]

If Lance lies he goes to jail for sure. So denying anything is not an option.

I suppose rather then actually admitting to anything he can plead the 5th and hope he can stay out of jail on the various fraud and money charges even though the rest of the team will spill their guts under oath as they all will all get immunity and will have to talk our go to jail.

There is zero chance that the doping gets covered up. That will all come out in detail. That will not be good for the UCI and will create an uproar in Europe for heads to roll and for results to be voided. It will be a regular feeding frenzy once the blood is in the water. But Lance will be occupied with more pressing legal issues in the USA to have time to defend his sporting legacy in Europe.

Would it be fair for Lance to have his palmares handed to another doper? No, but nothing about winning by doping is fair.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

Well, isn't this interesting?

Seems to me to be what you Yanks call a "Squeeze Play".

One is a criminal investigation...can lead to Jail.
One is a civil investigation...could cost a massive extraction of funds.

This is becoming quite the brilliant strategic set of maneuvers by Landis. I am getting the feeling there is even more coming. Keeping the Lance defense juggernaut on their heels provokes only idiotic statements from Herman and now Fabiano.

If my research is correct, the recovery for the whistle blowing is triple the damage amount.

Now, if the criminal look goes to the RICO level, then you'll see some folks in a real hard place.

As a matter of leverage, I'd say they have Lance's remaining you know what in the fast lane to the vise.

I think this is about done.

Edit:

Adding this piece for those hoping the "cover of Cancer" could shield Lance, I direct you to this article where Pfizer paid $1.8 BILLION as result of a whistle blower suit. Moral of story is even those who heal and cure must play by the rules. Fraud is fraud and the govt is not amused by being ripped off.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN021592920090902

These lawsuits are prevalent and pursued with zeal, as it turns out.

Have a look at some of these, found with the simplest google search:

http://www.phillipsandcohen.com/CM/Aboutthefirm/Aboutthefirm133.asp

Massive fraud, massive recoveries.

Lance, the end is only beginning.

 

[theswordsman]

I think this is about done.

Not quite, it still lacks that foreign flair. Maybe the OCLAESP investigation into syringes and infusion paraphernalia from the 2009 TdF. Or a raid in Italy that turns up evidence. I'm not picky, as long as there are foreign police involved. I haven't seen Pierre Bordry's name in ages. Or maybe Dr. Morkeberg has come up with a test to detect own blood transfusions?

 

[oldschoolnik]

Well, isn't this interesting?

Seems to me to be what you Yanks call a "Squeeze Play".

One is a criminal investigation...can lead to Jail.
One is a civil investigation...could cost a massive extraction of funds.

This is becoming quite the brilliant strategic set of maneuvers by Landis. I am getting the feeling there is even more coming. Keeping the Lance defense juggernaut on their heels provokes only idiotic statements from Herman and now Fabiano.

If my research is correct, the recovery for the whistle blowing is triple the damage amount.

Now, if the criminal look goes to the RICO level, then you'll see some folks in a real hard place.

As a matter of leverage, I'd say they have Lance's remaining you know what in the fast lane to the vise.

I think this is about done.

Edit:

Adding this piece for those hoping the "cover of Cancer" could shield Lance, I direct you to this article where Pfizer paid $1.8 BILLION as result of a whistle blower suit. Moral of story is even those who heal and cure must play by the rules. Fraud is fraud and the govt is not amused by being ripped off.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN021592920090902

These lawsuits are prevalent and pursued with zeal, as it turns out.

Have a look at some of these, found with the simplest google search:

http://www.phillipsandcohen.com/CM/Aboutthefirm/Aboutthefirm133.asp

Massive fraud, massive recoveries.

Lance, the end is only beginning.

I hate feeling so dumb but I am missing something here. Will some patient forum member please take a minute to dumb this down a little for me? Why is this being called a "slam dunk" already? Has the Justice dept. already said they would pursue the case on Floyd's behalf? If no, then Floyd is free to pursue it on his own but then it's Floyd's resources against LA and all those high rolling financial crooks? What if the Justice Dept doesn't pursue it? Is everyone's point here that there is already far too much evidence for them to ignore the case.?

Thanks in advance Nik

 

[Boeing]

Well, isn't this interesting?

Seems to me to be what you Yanks call a "Squeeze Play".

One is a criminal investigation...can lead to Jail.
One is a civil investigation...could cost a massive extraction of funds.

This is becoming quite the brilliant strategic set of maneuvers by Landis. I am getting the feeling there is even more coming. Keeping the Lance defense juggernaut on their heels provokes only idiotic statements from Herman and now Fabiano.

If my research is correct, the recovery for the whistle blowing is triple the damage amount.

Now, if the criminal look goes to the RICO level, then you'll see some folks in a real hard place.

As a matter of leverage, I'd say they have Lance's remaining you know what in the fast lane to the vise.

I think this is about done.

Edit:

Adding this piece for those hoping the "cover of Cancer" could shield Lance, I direct you to this article where Pfizer paid $1.8 BILLION as result of a whistle blower suit. Moral of story is even those who heal and cure must play by the rules. Fraud is fraud and the govt is not amused by being ripped off.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN021592920090902

These lawsuits are prevalent and pursued with zeal, as it turns out.

Have a look at some of these, found with the simplest google search:

http://www.phillipsandcohen.com/CM/Aboutthefirm/Aboutthefirm133.asp

Massive fraud, massive recoveries.

Lance, the end is only beginning.

Brilliant post

 

[tubularglue]

 

[TexPat]

You continue to impress me.
Great news.

 

[Race Radio]

Not quite, it still lacks that foreign flair. Maybe the OCLAESP investigation into syringes and infusion paraphernalia from the 2009 TdF. Or a raid in Italy that turns up evidence. I'm not picky, as long as there are foreign police involved. I haven't seen Pierre Bordry's name in ages. Or maybe Dr. Morkeberg has come up with a test to detect own blood transfusions?

Right before the Tour the French said that they were working with the Feds. I have heard that they are waiting to see what develops from the Landis case and testimony prior to proceeding with the infusion case.

The inference I got was that they think it can be much larger

 

[Cozy Beehive]

I'm waiting to see pigs fly, too.

Remember, L.A said he was going to fight this until his death.

 

[TexPat]

Vamos a ver, amigo. Vamos a ver.

 

[theswordsman]

I hate feeling so dumb but I am missing something here. Will some patient forum member please take a minute to dumb this down a little for me? Why is this being called a "slam dunk" already? Has the Justice dept. already said they would pursue the case on Floyd's behalf? If no, then Floyd is free to pursue it on his own but then it's Floyd's resources against LA and all those high rolling financial crooks? What if the Justice Dept doesn't pursue it? Is everyone's point here that there is already far too much evidence for them to ignore the case.?

Thanks in advance Nik

The Wall Street Journal story hit first, and as you said, the Justice Department was obtaining documents so they could decide if they want to handle the lawsuit themselves. The NY Daily News story naming the defendants came later. As someone said earlier, the lawsuit may have hit at the time Landis signed on with the lawyers LeMond had used in a successful suit against Trek Bikes. Landis probably wouldn't be writing them checks, he would have agreed to give them a certain percentage of any win, maybe 30% of his 30%. If the Justice Department decides to do the work themselves, it could mean a nice payday for a light workload for the Landis lawyers.

I'm already excited because there's now a lawsuit going after the money of Armstrong, Bruyneel, and Armstrong's business partners, with a chance that their money will go to the government that Lance's people act concerned about in the press - the "taxpayer dollars". This is in addition to the FDA investigation and the grand jury (and hopefully international efforts). It will have different investigators with different resources looking at a lot of the same documents and pursuing different leads. It means that a lot of the people being questioned in private could also be questioned under oath in a court room with reporters.

So no, the decision by the Justice Department may not have been made yet, but there is a lawsuit the government has a vested interest in, and they do have subpoena power, and they can depose witnesses that Floyd knows have things to say. And they'd better tell the same story that they tell in the other investigation.