Is Armstrong about to admit

[Anonymous]

C'mon . . . . you guys are like jilted lovers. Your beloved peloton takes drugs just to fool your arbitrary sense of fair play. You think you got burned ..... now you want revenge.

Uh, no. I was actually watching cycling during the EPO era, and it was clear that they were doped to the gills. Unlike people (insert your name here) who didn't know that they made those crazy shifters on the brake levers until 2002, those of us who have cycled and watch cycling have known about this doping thing for awhile.

You don't even realize how much of a fanboy you look like, do you. I'll bet you even think you have written some original fanboy thoughts here, right? Sorry to burst your bubble, but you are really at the tail end of the phenomenon. I bet you totally just got into Hannah Montana too...

 

[lostintime]

Uh, no. I was actually watching cycling during the EPO era, and it was clear that they were doped to the gills. Unlike people (insert your name here) who didn't know that they made those crazy shifters on the brake levers until 2002, those of us who have cycled and watch cycling have known about this doping thing for awhile.

You don't even realize how much of a fanboy you look like, do you. I'll bet you even think you have written some original fanboy thoughts here, right? Sorry to burst your bubble, but you are really at the tail end of the phenomenon. I bet you totally just got into Hannah Montana too...

Is that all you got ..... calling anyone that doesn't agree with you a fanboy?

Hey smart-guy, it is you who have no clue. I've been watching and following racing since the early 80's. I am no Armstrong lover. It is you who sounds like you once loved him. because now you profess your hatred, and you don't hate what once wasn't loved.

Believe it or not ...... some people just are not offended by what these riders have been doing. I have no vested interest in what they do or not, and frankly it's none of my business. If you can't take that ..... it's your problem. But when you lash out at others because you're upset over it, you just look dumb. How many times a day do you lash out at others like this? Are you tired of it yet after all these years?

Instead of sitting on the toilet and whining about it. Crap or get off. Quit watching the sport or move on.

 

[flicker]

Is that all you got ..... calling anyone that doesn't agree with you a fanboy?

Hey smart-guy, it is you who have no clue. I've been watching and following racing since the early 80's. I am no Armstrong lover. It is you who sounds like you once loved him. because now you profess your hatred, and you don't hate what once wasn't loved.

Believe it or not ...... some people just are not offended by what these riders have been doing. I have no vested interest in what they do or not, and frankly it's none of my business. If you can't take that ..... it's your problem. But when you lash out at others because you're upset over it, you just look dumb. How many times a day do you lash out at others like this? Are you tired of it yet after all these years?

Instead of sitting on the toilet and whining about it. Crap or get off. Quit watching the sport of move on.

I wasn't watching cycling during the 80s and 90s, I saw Levi almost win the Vuelta in 2001, and I always wanted Ulrich to crush Armstrong during the Tours.

Did you suspect anything when cappacino passed Greg, or any of the "miracles" that we have seen since then. Do you feel ambivilant about the obvious fueling being done?

 

[lostintime]

I wasn't watching cycling during the 80s and 90s, I saw Levi almost win the Vuelta in 2001, and I always wanted Ulrich to crush Armstrong during the Tours.

Did you suspect anything when cappacino passed Greg, or any of the "miracles" that we have seen since then. Do you feel ambivilant about the obvious fueling being done?

I think back to that time ..... I mean as a viewer I had no clue. Obviously those in the peloton knew something was up . But for us who were seeing it on video or TV , who knew the secret? Not many I suppose.

Lemond's TT was a "miracle" too ..... but I don't think many thought he was doped.

When did it start and who all was involved? Doping and other cheating has always been a part of the sport . . . so it was up to me weather I was going to take it for what it was . . or quit watching. I decided to keep watching because . . . even doped . . . . they are human beings involved in sport. . . and it's the human element that is so appealing.

I see it as all or nothing these days. Either I classify them all as dopers or not. If I'm going to watch it, I'm going to take them for what they are. I can't pick and choose riders and classify them as good or bad guys because we'll never know who is or isn't on dope.. . .even in today's highly tested field.

Would I like to know riders are riding on their own merits? Sure. But that just isn't going to happen anytime soon, as there really is no way to prevent the ever progression of performance enhancing products. Seeking greater performance is very natural. There's a blurry line between what is "natural" and what is not these days because drugs are so common they are literally considered okay, therefore natural . . . blindly ignoring the potential dangers.

If we want blame .... blame drugs . But .. it's humans who take them. We can blame them. But where does it end? We can trace generation after generation of competition back to the beginning of time of people who are looking for an advantage. Do we blame the Romans? I just see no end to blame. . . so I let go.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I think back to that time ..... I mean as a viewer I had no clue. Obviously those in the peloton knew something was up . But for us who were seeing it on video or TV , who knew the secret? Not many I suppose.

Lemond's TT was a "miracle" too ..... but I don't think many thought he was doped.

When did it start and who all was involved? Doping and other cheating has always been a part of the sport . . . so it was up to me weather I was going to take it for what it was . . or quit watching. I decided to keep watching because . . . even doped . . . . they are human beings involved in sport. . . and it's the human element that is so appealing.

I see it as all or nothing these days. Either I classify them all as dopers or not. If I'm going to watch it, I'm going to take them for what they are. I can't pick and choose riders and classify them as good or bad guys because we'll never know who is or isn't on dope.. . .even in today's highly tested field.

Would I like to know riders are riding on their own merits? Sure. But that just isn't going to happen anytime soon, as there really is no way to prevent the ever progression of performance enhancing products. Seeking greater performance is very natural. There's a blurry line between what is "natural" and what is not these days because drugs are so common they are literally considered okay, therefore natural . . . blindly ignoring the potential dangers.

If we want blame .... blame drugs . But .. it's humans who take them. We can blame them. But where does it end? We can trace generation after generation of competition back to the beginning of time of people who are looking for an advantage. Do we blame the Romans? I just see no end to blame. . . so I let go.

I think I have worked out what is different in your view to others.

Your view is selfish - nothing really wrong with that except it will be at odds to those who are passionate about the sport.

The highlighted above is correct and it is the essential ingredient of any sport - and cycling has that in abundance and PEDs are neither necessary nor add to that element.

But because of the doping Pro cycling's credibility is significantly damaged - sponsors stay away, races fold, people stop supporting. That works it way through all levels - if you are involved in the sport (even at local level) you will have seen this firsthand.

So, all investigations that expose those who have harmed the sport are (IMO) not only necessary but very welcome.

 

[Oldman]

I think back to that time ..... I mean as a viewer I had no clue. Obviously those in the peloton knew something was up . But for us who were seeing it on video or TV , who knew the secret? Not many I suppose. Lemond's TT was a "miracle" too ..... but I don't think many thought he was doped.

When did it start and who all was involved? Doping and other cheating has always been a part of the sport . . . so it was up to me weather I was going to take it for what it was . . or quit watching. I decided to keep watching because . . . even doped . . . . they are human beings involved in sport. . . and it's the human element that is so appealing.

I see it as all or nothing these days. Either I classify them all as dopers or not. If I'm going to watch it, I'm going to take them for what they are. I can't pick and choose riders and classify them as good or bad guys because we'll never know who is or isn't on dope.. . .even in today's highly tested field.

Would I like to know riders are riding on their own merits? Sure. But that just isn't going to happen anytime soon, as there really is no way to prevent the ever progression of performance enhancing products. Seeking greater performance is very natural. There's a blurry line between what is "natural" and what is not these days because drugs are so common they are literally considered okay, therefore natural . . . blindly ignoring the potential dangers.

If we want blame .... blame drugs . But .. it's humans who take them. We can blame them. But where does it end? We can trace generation after generation of competition back to the beginning of time of people who are looking for an advantage. Do we blame the Romans? I just see no end to blame. . . so I let go.

Having watched it and having some clues from the 80's on...you are actually seeing the best opportunity to clean it up. Some folks are behaving like jilted lovers and that's OK as long as innocent lives don't get crushed in the process.
But you clearly don't have an answer other than to do nothing. That's not going to work so sit tight and watch what happens.

 

[lostintime]

I think I have worked out what is different in your view to others.

Your view is selfish - nothing really wrong with that except it will be at odds to those who are passionate about the sport.

The highlighted above is correct and it is the essential ingredient of any sport - and cycling has that in abundance and PEDs are neither necessary nor add to that element.

But because of the doping Pro cycling's credibility is significantly damaged - sponsors stay away, races fold, people stop supporting. That works it way through all levels - if you are involved in the sport (even at local level) you will have seen this firsthand.

So, all investigations that expose those who have harmed the sport are (IMO) not only necessary but very welcome.

I can respect where you're coming from.

 

[flicker]

I think back to that time ..... I mean as a viewer I had no clue. Obviously those in the peloton knew something was up . But for us who were seeing it on video or TV , who knew the secret? Not many I suppose.

Lemond's TT was a "miracle" too ..... but I don't think many thought he was doped.

When did it start and who all was involved? Doping and other cheating has always been a part of the sport . . . so it was up to me weather I was going to take it for what it was . . or quit watching. I decided to keep watching because . . . even doped . . . . they are human beings involved in sport. . . and it's the human element that is so appealing.

I see it as all or nothing these days. Either I classify them all as dopers or not. If I'm going to watch it, I'm going to take them for what they are. I can't pick and choose riders and classify them as good or bad guys because we'll never know who is or isn't on dope.. . .even in today's highly tested field.

Would I like to know riders are riding on their own merits? Sure. But that just isn't going to happen anytime soon, as there really is no way to prevent the ever progression of performance enhancing products. Seeking greater performance is very natural. There's a blurry line between what is "natural" and what is not these days because drugs are so common they are literally considered okay, therefore natural . . . blindly ignoring the potential dangers.

If we want blame .... blame drugs . But .. it's humans who take them. We can blame them. But where does it end? We can trace generation after generation of competition back to the beginning of time of people who are looking for an advantage. Do we blame the Romans? I just see no end to blame. . . so I let go.

I agree with you, what I see in cycling and other sports is human nature. Been going on since human kind began. I see it in the bible that I know, the Greek myths, probably in the Koran(although I do not know it.)

I think the clinic is good for me because I see a lot of human nature here in peoples responses to the problems in cycling.

I realize that the problems are problems in human nature. Therefore I enjoy the spectacle of cycling for what they are a spectacle.

 

[red_flanders]

Is that all you got ..... calling anyone that doesn't agree with you a fanboy?

Hey smart-guy, it is you who have no clue. I've been watching and following racing since the early 80's. I am no Armstrong lover. It is you who sounds like you once loved him. because now you profess your hatred, and you don't hate what once wasn't loved.

Believe it or not ...... some people just are not offended by what these riders have been doing. I have no vested interest in what they do or not, and frankly it's none of my business. If you can't take that ..... it's your problem. But when you lash out at others because you're upset over it, you just look dumb. How many times a day do you lash out at others like this? Are you tired of it yet after all these years?

Instead of sitting on the toilet and whining about it. Crap or get off. Quit watching the sport or move on.

Summary: You're against doping. There's nothing we can do about it, so if you don't like it, quit watching. I can't do anything about it, so in my impotence and fear, I'll just side with the cheaters and bullies.

Brilliant.

 

[lostintime]

Summary: You're against doping. There's nothing we can do about it, so if you don't like it, quit watching. I can't do anything about it, so in my impotence and fear, I'll just side with the cheaters and bullies.

Brilliant.

As stated, cheating is a human problem. Man has been trying to stop it since it began, yet it continues. I don't condone it, but you, me nor any other human is powerful enough to stop it. I don't have a solution, people are trying . . . and that's okay as was stated by Oldman ... as long as the innocents don't get hurt in the process.

That said . . if you're a pro cyclist, cheat and get caught, you pay the price. I've no issue with that. It doesn't seem to be slowing it down much though. I'm sorry those that love the sport from the inside have to witness this . . . .

The deal with Armstrong is it's so after the fact. They've tried and tried to catch him but did not. Now they try a new way to nab him. It just seems a bit vindictive to me, an outsider to the inside of the sport.

 

[veganrob]

I think you are missing the point lostintime. This is not just about Lance,it is about cycling. Lance just made himself the poster child, made his millions fraudulently, flaunted it, UCI turned its head and enabled him. The whole thing was, is, corrupt and needs to change. But since Lance shoved it into everyones face, he is going to fall the hardest. Rightfully so.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

As stated, cheating is a human problem. Man has been trying to stop it since it began, yet it continues. I don't condone it, but you, me nor any other human is powerful enough to stop it. I don't have a solution, people are trying . . . and that's okay as was stated by Oldman ... as long as the innocents don't get hurt in the process.

That said . . if you're a pro cyclist, cheat and get caught, you pay the price. I've no issue with that. It doesn't seem to be slowing it down much though. I'm sorry those that love the sport from the inside have to witness this . . . .

The deal with Armstrong is it's so after the fact. They've tried and tried to catch him but did not. Now they try a new way to nab him. It just seems a bit vindictive to me, an outsider to the inside of the sport.

The highlighted is a big part of the problem.

You do dope tests, you only catch dopers
The system that supports the doping remains in place and the caught doper is replaced by a new rider who soon has choices to make to stay in the sport, so the circle continues.

What is exciting about the Federal investigation is it is not about the riders - they have a lot of evidence on them already.
This investigation is concentrating on these facilitators who are out of reach of traditional doping inquiries, particularly the money men.

The only reason why Armstrong has escaped justice to date from inside the sport is because he has bought, bribed and bullied the sport - an outside investigation should not have to clean up our sport - but as cycling has not done it then chapeau to the Feds for doing it.

 

[VeloFidelis]

Uh, no. I was actually watching cycling during the EPO era, and it was clear that they were doped to the gills. Unlike people (insert your name here) who didn't know that they made those crazy shifters on the brake levers until 2002, those of us who have cycled and watch cycling have known about this doping thing for awhile.

You don't even realize how much of a fanboy you look like, do you. I'll bet you even think you have written some original fanboy thoughts here, right? Sorry to burst your bubble, but you are really at the tail end of the phenomenon. I bet you totally just got into Hannah Montana too...

Hmmmm... I was watching during the "EPO era" too, and well before, and I have very few doubts, both then and now, that what I was watching was state of the art in pharmaceutically enhanced performance. From watching Gewiss and Mapei spank the peloton until the rest of the teams all figured out how, I would have to live in complete denial to not understand that every Classic and GT winner that I cheered for in that decade was on the sauce. Why should I believe that it is any different now? It's just something that I am willing to accept. It doesn't make me more a fan or less a fan. It doesn't make me a Fanboy (not that there is anything wrong with that). And it doesn't make my understanding of the nuance of professional cycling somehow less.

It is amusing to read all the ridiculous postulations espoused in the Forum on how to clean up cycling once and for all, and what kind of draconian vigilante justice should be metered out against those riders arbitrarily deemed more guilty. Cycling will never be clean. It never has been, so why should it start now?

The notion that any competition is fair, whether it is drug free or not is pure fantasy. Should there be doping controls... Absolutely! Will they irradiate doping in sport?... more than a million years of human development say No. Understanding that as reality and refusing to grab a pitchfork and join the mob is not ignorance of the facts, or tacit approval of them. It is not a condition of being a "fan". It is a condition of sport.

Being a career poster on Cycling News Forum, and laying in wait to smear fellow posters with a different opinion in a stream of unrelated innuendo and BS that you just made up, does little to reinforce your deluded position as a superior cycling fan. I am sure that therapy would help you get to the bottom of you love / hate relationship with cycling and those individuals that you so consistently demonize. Unfortunately I fear that hate the part is this thing that keeps you watching.

 

[veganrob]

I guess I don't understand the viewpoint that since sport always was and will be dirty that we shouldn't care. It is not the people on either end of the argument that are the problem, it is the apathetic in the middle. I was taught that if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem.

 

[Anonymous]

Hmmmm... I was watching during the "EPO era" too, and well before, and I have very few doubts, both then and now, that what I was watching was state of the art in pharmaceutically enhanced performance. From watching Gewiss and Mapei spank the peloton until the rest of the teams all figured out how, I would have to live in complete denial to not understand that every Classic and GT winner that I cheered for in that decade was on the sauce. Why should I believe that it is any different now? It's just something that I am willing to accept. It doesn't make me more a fan or less a fan. It doesn't make me a Fanboy (not that there is anything wrong with that). And it doesn't make my understanding of the nuance of professional cycling somehow less.

It is amusing to read all the ridiculous postulations espoused in the Forum on how to clean up cycling once and for all, and what kind of draconian vigilante justice should be metered out against those riders arbitrarily deemed more guilty. Cycling will never be clean. It never has been, so why should it start now?

The notion that any competition is fair, whether it is drug free or not is pure fantasy. Should there be doping controls... Absolutely! Will they irradiate doping in sport?... more than a million years of human development say No. Understanding that as reality and refusing to grab a pitchfork and join the mob is not ignorance of the facts, or tacit approval of them. It is not a condition of being a "fan". It is a condition of sport.

Being a career poster on Cycling News Forum, and laying in wait to smear fellow posters with a different opinion in a stream of unrelated innuendo and BS that you just made up, does little to reinforce your deluded position as a superior cycling fan. I am sure that therapy would help you get to the bottom of you love / hate relationship with cycling and those individuals that you so consistently demonize. Unfortunately I fear that hate the part is this thing that keeps you watching.

Awe, she bites. Isn't that cute.

 

[VeloFidelis]

I guess I don't understand the viewpoint that since sport always was and will be dirty that we shouldn't care. It is not the people on either end of the argument that are the problem, it is the apathetic in the middle. I was taught that if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem.

I was taught that if you are human, problems are hard wired in the package

 

[Anonymous]

Is that all you got ..... calling anyone that doesn't agree with you a fanboy?

Hey smart-guy, it is you who have no clue. I've been watching and following racing since the early 80's. I am no Armstrong lover. It is you who sounds like you once loved him. because now you profess your hatred, and you don't hate what once wasn't loved.

Believe it or not ...... some people just are not offended by what these riders have been doing. I have no vested interest in what they do or not, and frankly it's none of my business. If you can't take that ..... it's your problem. But when you lash out at others because you're upset over it, you just look dumb. How many times a day do you lash out at others like this? Are you tired of it yet after all these years?

Instead of sitting on the toilet and whining about it. Crap or get off. Quit watching the sport or move on.

*** edited by mod ***

 

[veganrob]

I was taught that if you are human, problems are hard wired in the package

hahaha. It sure may seem that way, but I don't want to believe it.

 

[Anonymous]

I was taught that if you are human, problems are hard wired in the package

Wow, deep... Someone had to teach you that. Not to swift, huh sweetie?

 

[red_flanders]

I think you are missing the point lostintime. This is not just about Lance,it is about cycling. Lance just made himself the poster child, made his millions fraudulently, flaunted it, UCI turned its head and enabled him. The whole thing was, is, corrupt and needs to change. But since Lance shoved it into everyones face, he is going to fall the hardest. Rightfully so.

Thank you for the on-point rebuttal and summary of the issue.

It should be restated every time the "Don't dig up the past" nonsense is trotted out.

 

[VeloFidelis]

Again, nothing here but the same stupid fanboy crap that has always been posted by people with puppy love for Armstrong. Now that he is busted, you all jumped on the "so what" and "well quit watching" bandwagon. Like I said, you have no idea just how predictable you are. You and VeloFidelis should date. She is butch and willing to stick up for you. I think we may have found a love connection.

Predictable??!!... Dude you own that word!

 

[Anonymous]

As stated, cheating is a human problem. Man has been trying to stop it since it began, yet it continues. I don't condone it, but you, me nor any other human is powerful enough to stop it. I don't have a solution, people are trying . . . and that's okay as was stated by Oldman ... as long as the innocents don't get hurt in the process.

Yes you do. Why not be a big boy and own it?

That said . . if you're a pro cyclist, cheat and get caught, you pay the price. I've no issue with that. It doesn't seem to be slowing it down much though. I'm sorry those that love the sport from the inside have to witness this . . . .

Yes you do. Why not be a big boy and own it?

The deal with Armstrong is it's so after the fact. They've tried and tried to catch him but did not. Now they try a new way to nab him. It just seems a bit vindictive to me, an outsider to the inside of the sport.

Noted.

Armstrong set himself up for this by all of the bull**** "What am I on? I'm on my bike busting my a$$ 6 hours a day, what are you on?" and "The French are out to get me." and "Betsy is obsessed with me, and needs to keep lying because she jealous." and...well, sometimes you reap what you sow. Sometimes you don't. If he goes down, it will be because he has lived the life of a lying narcissist, and it caught up with him. Nothing wrong with that as far as I can see.

 

[Anonymous]

Predictable??!!... Dude you own that word!

And you own "douchebag."

 

[Barrus]

All of you, try to be civil

 

[VeloFidelis]

Awe, she bites. Isn't that cute.

A stumbling six word reply? Without an unrelated insult? Wow!