Is Barry Bonds' Trial The Hold Up?

Page 26 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Aug 13, 2009
12,855
0
0
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/7360982/light-sentence-barry-bonds-raises-questions-government-years-long-investigation


The investigation into Bonds and BALCO, the lab that produced and sold undetectable designer steroids, is the most important investigation ever undertaken into the use of performance-enhancing drugs.
His sentence is not the result of any failures by federal agents and prosecutors..........The problem was the refusal of Bonds' personal trainer, Greg Anderson, to testify against him.
 
Mar 10, 2009
286
0
0
Nice opinion article, and should not be taken as facts of course. It is not a "problem" when a citizen does not testify against another citizen, it how the justice system is supposed to work. If the prosecutors had such a great case, then they would have not desperately needed the testimony of one witness to make their case.

and MewMew I do idolize Bonds, but only for his baseball ability, what a sweet swing.. but he is no different then the 200+ steroid users(fact) in baseball during his era. His money does not do it for me, I have plenty of that myself. He did not beat the system, 12 people found him guilty of one thing, and now he has a debt to society to pay, which he will(after appeal..maybe). Seems like the system worked, just because the verdict was not what you wanted does not mean the system didn't work.

Let me ask you something, if you or RR were selected for Jury duty for this case, would you have lied to the Judge and not asked to be excused because you had a preconceived idea of guilt for Mr. Bonds. If not then you would have failed the system.
 
Aug 13, 2009
12,855
0
0
mikeNphilly said:
Nice opinion article, and should not be taken as facts of course. It is not a "problem" when a citizen does not testify against another citizen, it how the justice system is supposed to work. If the prosecutors had such a great case, then they would have not desperately needed the testimony of one witness to make their case.

and MewMew I do idolize Bonds, but only for his baseball ability, what a sweet swing.. but he is no different then the 200+ steroid users(fact) in baseball during his era. His money does not do it for me, I have plenty of that myself. He did not beat the system, 12 people found him guilty of one thing, and now he has a debt to society to pay, which he will(after appeal..maybe). Seems like the system worked, just because the verdict was not what you wanted does not mean the system didn't work.

Let me ask you something, if you or RR were selected for Jury duty for this case, would you have lied to the Judge and not asked to be excused because you had a preconceived idea of guilt for Mr. Bonds. If not then you would have failed the system.
You dismiss the articles, but don't address the very valid points raised. Always easier to dismiss the messenger and ignore the message

You may not think it is a "Problem" when a witness refuses to testify to a Grand Jury, but the law does. This is why Greg Anderson spent over a year in prison.

If I was selected for jury duty for any case involving PED's I would ask to be excused.
 
Dec 30, 2010
850
0
0
stephens said:
Maybe being a convicted of telling a rambling story about how you grew up with your dad playing baseball or whatever is better than having to go on record as a "cheat". As it stands, Bonds was never convicted of taking any illegal substance or cheating in baseball. Was that worth $15mil? I would think it would be. (btw, where does this $15mil number come from?)

As for how we judge rich guys who use their money on their defense, it doesn't give me a bad taste at all. In fact, it's the only time that a defendant really has a fair chance of defending himself against the government, which has basically unlimited resources and always outspends the defendants.


Just because there isn't a legal judgement "proving" that Bonds didn't take steroids, doesn't mean the whole world doesn't know he did.

Bonds admitted to using substances that had designer steroids in them. It is now a FACT that Bonds CHEATED. His records are tainted, and he will probably never get into the hall of fame.

Too bad. He had a good chance of making it into the hall of fame, if he had never CHEATED. Now he is a CHEATING felon, whose records will be "asterisked" forever.:p
 
Mar 10, 2009
286
0
0
Race Radio said:
You dismiss the articles, but don't address the very valid points raised. Always easier to dismiss the messenger and ignore the message

You may not think it is a "Problem" when a witness refuses to testify to a Grand Jury, but the law does. This is why Greg Anderson spent over a year in prison.

If I was selected for jury duty for any case involving PED's I would ask to be excused.
I said nice article, this same writer was probably praising McGuire and Sosa during the "Steroid Era", when noone talked about steroid use, just 500 foot home runs. My problem with the Bonds trial is, the rest of baseball got left out of it. The whole of baseball from Selig to roster spot 25 on the worse team, knew about the steroid use in baseball after the strike season, and no one cared, since the huge HR and RBI numbers brought people back to the stadiums and more importantly to the TV(where the big money is made). People..fans, media, players, owners, Selig all turned a blind eye to it since it made baseball fun again(and lots of money)

Everyone was in love with McGuire/Sosa during those crazy 50+ and 60+ homerun seasons. 2 players on rival teams, highfiving each other after crushing homeruns, and millions on TV watching. Then the hammer from Congress came down, and all of a sudden Bonds is the bad guy. I mean the commissioner barley even came to SF to see Bond's record setting homeruns, but he could not stay away from St. Louis/Chicago
Lots of people did go to jail from this investigation, that is good. But the people that facilitated it are still making millions, and painting a picture of scorn on certain players. Meanwhile McGuire is back to coaching with baseball.

I guess I don't like when 1 person was singled out from the whole to group to go after, maybe he was the easy target since he was not well liked player, but irks me the others were given a free ride(in the court of law at least)
 
Aug 13, 2009
12,855
0
0
mikeNphilly said:
I said nice article, this same writer was probably praising McGuire and Sosa during the "Steroid Era", when noone talked about steroid use, just 500 foot home runs. My problem with the Bonds trial is, the rest of baseball got left out of it. The whole of baseball from Selig to roster spot 25 on the worse team, knew about the steroid use in baseball after the strike season, and no one cared, since the huge HR and RBI numbers brought people back to the stadiums and more importantly to the TV(where the big money is made). People..fans, media, players, owners, Selig all turned a blind eye to it since it made baseball fun again(and lots of money)

Everyone was in love with McGuire/Sosa during those crazy 50+ and 60+ homerun seasons. 2 players on rival teams, highfiving each other after crushing homeruns, and millions on TV watching. Then the hammer from Congress came down, and all of a sudden Bonds is the bad guy. I mean the commissioner barley even came to SF to see Bond's record setting homeruns, but he could not stay away from St. Louis/Chicago
Lots of people did go to jail from this investigation, that is good. But the people that facilitated it are still making millions, and painting a picture of scorn on certain players. Meanwhile McGuire is back to coaching with baseball.

I guess I don't like when 1 person was singled out from the whole to group to go after, maybe he was the easy target since he was not well liked player, but irks me the others were given a free ride(in the court of law at least)
You are confused. Bonds was charged with lying to the Feds and obstructing justice. Clemens has similar charges. They are charged because they lied, not because he was not well liked. 30 players and staff were given immunity. They told the truth. Bonds not only lied but his buddy went to prison instead of testifying to the Grand Jury.
 
Mar 10, 2009
286
0
0
Race Radio said:
You are confused. Bonds was charged with lying to the Feds and obstructing justice. Clemens has similar charges. They are charged because they lied, not because he was not well liked. 30 players and staff were given immunity. They told the truth. Bonds not only lied but his buddy went to prison instead of testifying to the Grand Jury.
I am not confused, I am asking why the rest of baseball was not charged, since they all we lying, Bonds was a sacrificial lamb, keep the focus on him and not the rest of the sport...It worked!! Even Ryan Braun's positive was forgotten in a couple of days, since Bonds sentence came out, not soon afterward. Never mind, you have your mindset about 1 or 2 people, and seem to want to ignore the other in baseball that got a free ride, while they were bringing back baseball after the strike years..we can agree to disagree.
 
Aug 13, 2009
12,855
0
0
mikeNphilly said:
I am not confused, I am asking why the rest of baseball was not charged, since they all we lying, Bonds was a sacrificial lamb, keep the focus on him and not the rest of the sport...It worked!! Even Ryan Braun's positive was forgotten in a couple of days, since Bonds sentence came out, not soon afterward. Never mind, you have your mindset about 1 or 2 people, and seem to want to ignore the other in baseball that got a free ride, while they were bringing back baseball after the strike years..we can agree to disagree.
The rest of Baseball lied under oath? Really?

Bonds, and 30 others, were given immunity for their testimony. All but Barry told the truth. Like it or not BALCO was an important investigation and the actions of Bonds and Anderson damaged and delayed the investigation...and cost the taxpayers money

You are confused because you think the Bonds case was about doping in baseball and not Perjury and obstruction of justice
 
May 9, 2009
583
0
0
Race Radio said:
Bonds, and 30 others, were given immunity for their testimony. All but Barry told the truth.
Bonds was accused of not telling the truth. A jury of his peers disagreed with this claim. Though they did convict him of telling an off-topic story instead of directly answering a question.

As for Anderson, the system worked. The system gives a citizen a choice: testify or go to jail. It is not a failure of the system or abuse of it if the citizen choses the later.
 
Aug 13, 2009
12,855
0
0
stephens said:
Bonds was accused of not telling the truth. A jury of his peers disagreed with this claim. Though they did convict him of telling an off-topic story instead of directly answering a question.

As for Anderson, the system worked. The system gives a citizen a choice: testify or go to jail. It is not a failure of the system or abuse of it if the citizen choses the later.
Actually most of the Jury agreed that he lied. One juror, who was described as unstable by his fellow jurors, held out and that resulted in a hung jury. Most rational people can see that he lied.....but you are welcome to pretend that he did not.

It certainly is an abuse of the system, that is why Anderson went to jail.
 
Race Radio said:
Actually most of the Jury agreed that he lied. One juror, who was described as unstable by his fellow jurors, held out and that resulted in a hung jury. Most rational people can see that he lied.....but you are welcome to pretend that he did not.

It certainly is an abuse of the system, that is why Anderson went to jail.
What is Anderson doing now? Where is he? Interesting to see what becomes of him. He can't live like Floyd did....
 
Aug 31, 2011
329
0
0
Race Radio said:
Actually most of the Jury agreed that he lied. One juror, who was described as unstable by his fellow jurors, held out and that resulted in a hung jury. Most rational people can see that he lied.....but you are welcome to pretend that he did not.

It certainly is an abuse of the system, that is why Anderson went to jail.
That's the big problem, many of our peers are unstable.

The idolaters are like wide eyed disbelieving 5 year olds when confronted with the non reality of Santa.

What stage of the grieving process is denial?
 
Aug 13, 2009
12,855
0
0
thehog said:
What is Anderson doing now? Where is he? Interesting to see what becomes of him. He can't live like Floyd did....
He has a bit of a tax issue....as do his wife and mother in law. The Feds found $60,000, drugs and syringes, hidden in his Mother in law's kitchen.

Wonder if Barry paid by check or cash?
 
May 9, 2009
583
0
0
Race Radio said:
It certainly is an abuse of the system, that is why Anderson went to jail.
And I suppose it is an abuse of the system for me to speed on the highway and pay the fine I'm given? Ridiculous. None of us, in America, agree to following the request of the government no matter what. All we do is enter into a contract, a social contract, with each other. If one does X, then he must do Y. We are presented with that choice and are free to chose. Anderson made his choice, within the system. Similarly, the "unstable" juror was within the system. That's just what the system is.

That the US government, with all its resources and power, can't take down one baseball player, ought to be an embarrassment to them. Or an indication that what they are doing is not a proper use of their resources and power and they ought to try something new. Like curing cancer. What would bring more benefit to society: trying to chase steroids out of sports or spending the same money and talent trying to cure cancer or diabetes? It's a freakin' travesty and ****es me off so much that it sounds like I'm supporting Barry freakin' Bonds for god's sake. I'm a lifelong Dodgers fan so I'm certainly no supporter of Bonds! I just find the actions of the government even more objectionable than some guy taking performance enhancing drugs.

Bonds will be in the hall of fame and remembered as the best hitter of his era, no matter what. He may get passed over on the first ballet next year so that sportswriters can send a message. But he'll get in soon enough. No real baseball fan will discount Bonds relative accomplishments because of steroid use, because baseball fans know that all the other hitters and the pitchers they faced, were on the same stuff. And plenty of those baseball fans are medicated with all sorts of drugs in order to function in society themselves and do not view the issue the way many in the Clinic here do.
 
Aug 13, 2009
12,855
0
0
stephens said:
And I suppose it is an abuse of the system for me to speed on the highway and pay the fine I'm given? Ridiculous. None of us, in America, agree to following the request of the government no matter what. All we do is enter into a contract, a social contract, with each other. If one does X, then he must do Y. We are presented with that choice and are free to chose. Anderson made his choice, within the system. Similarly, the "unstable" juror was within the system. That's just what the system is.

That the US government, with all its resources and power, can't take down one baseball player, ought to be an embarrassment to them. Or an indication that what they are doing is not a proper use of their resources and power and they ought to try something new. Like curing cancer. What would bring more benefit to society: trying to chase steroids out of sports or spending the same money and talent trying to cure cancer or diabetes? It's a freakin' travesty and ****es me off so much that it sounds like I'm supporting Barry freakin' Bonds for god's sake. I'm a lifelong Dodgers fan so I'm certainly no supporter of Bonds! I just find the actions of the government even more objectionable than some guy taking performance enhancing drugs.

Bonds will be in the hall of fame and remembered as the best hitter of his era, no matter what. He may get passed over on the first ballet next year so that sportswriters can send a message. But he'll get in soon enough. No real baseball fan will discount Bonds relative accomplishments because of steroid use, because baseball fans know that all the other hitters and the pitchers they faced, were on the same stuff. And plenty of those baseball fans are medicated with all sorts of drugs in order to function in society themselves and do not view the issue the way many in the Clinic here do.
comedy gold.

You are welcome to pretend that the only thing keeping you from driving 100 mph through a school zone is some imaginary contract but most here understand that is silly.

Real baseball fans have already discounted Bonds, They know he is a fraud. NYDN had a poll and 73% said Bonds did not deserve to be in the HOF. That is why they voted to have his home run record ball stamped with an asterisk



Bonds is a joke and a fraud.
 
May 9, 2009
583
0
0
The overwhelming response in the comments sections of the news reports about Bonds' case has been "what a waste of money by my government". And no one can assert that Bonds is paying a PR firm to tweak this stuff the way you guys accuse Armstrong of doing. It's true public opinion. All non-Giants fans hate Bonds. But they hate government involvement in this stuff even more.
 
Aug 13, 2009
12,855
0
0
stephens said:
The overwhelming response in the comments sections of the news reports about Bonds' case has been "what a waste of money by my government". And no one can assert that Bonds is paying a PR firm to tweak this stuff the way you guys accuse Armstrong of doing. It's true public opinion. All non-Giants fans hate Bonds. But they hate government involvement in this stuff even more.
More comedy

So the comments section represents what fans think....just like the Armstrong thread represents what fans think of Wonderboy

Poll after Poll have the fans not wanting Bonds in the hall of fame. NYDN, USAToday, CNN, ESPN. The fans consistently vote in the 70% range against Bonds. A couple groupies seeding a comments section does not change what the majority think.

So the government should ignore people that lie and obstruct justice? They should ignore the production and distribution of PED's? Really?
 
Jun 19, 2009
5,220
0
0
stephens said:
The overwhelming response in the comments sections of the news reports about Bonds' case has been "what a waste of money by my government". And no one can assert that Bonds is paying a PR firm to tweak this stuff the way you guys accuse Armstrong of doing. It's true public opinion. All non-Giants fans hate Bonds. But they hate government involvement in this stuff even more.
"they" hate government involvement? Pretty broad and convenient synopsis of public opinion. The media I've seen characterized Bond's sentence as "light" and offerred zero doubt as to public opinion about his dubious records.
Note that Bond's did not participate in the building of an enterprise that may have used public funds fraudulently, likely facilitated international procurement and transfer of controlled substances and built a front charity to further diefy himself. Bonds merely took drugs, cheated at sport and against his wife and then lied about it.

Not even the most ardent Lance "witchhunters" can dismiss the impact of Bonds wrist-slap sentence after years of Federal pursuit vs. Lance's likelihood of prosecution. It did not help, especially in this election-year focus by politicians on the BUDGET ISSUE. The investigators and prosecutors better be absolutely airtight in this case or careers will fall. They need a win like the SEC needed to bring the Fannie and Freddie Execs to trial. It may not be a big win in the grand scheme of things but they need to get it right.
 
Aug 13, 2009
12,855
0
0
The Feds shouldn't even have all these cases and stuff. You can find out if a person is guilty just by reading the comments section of an online article. On this we can surely agree
 
May 9, 2009
583
0
0
Race Radio said:
So the government should ignore people that lie and obstruct justice?
Not when they lie about something important, something that puts the rest of the population at some sort of risk or damage. This is not such a scenario. If the government wants to get on its high horse about people telling the truth or answering every last question they ask, they need to be more selective in what questions they ask people in the first place! It's hard to advocate perjury charges about something that is not the government's business in the first place: like Clinton's sex life or whether and athlete cheated in his sport.


They should ignore the production and distribution of PED's? Really?
Yes, the government should ignore it. The sporting leagues can be as interested as they want and set up whatever testing and punishment regimes the athletes agree to. But I do not support the federal government wasting time, money, and talent chasing professional sport PED usage. They've got better things to do. I can't even imagine a world in which the government is doing such a fine job on everything else that they will have freed up enough time and resources to be justified tackling PED usage in pro sports!
 
Aug 13, 2009
12,855
0
0
stephens said:
Not when they lie about something important, something that puts the rest of the population at some sort of risk or damage. This is not such a scenario. If the government wants to get on its high horse about people telling the truth or answering every last question they ask, they need to be more selective in what questions they ask people in the first place! It's hard to advocate perjury charges about something that is not the government's business in the first place: like Clinton's sex life or whether and athlete cheated in his sport.




Yes, the government should ignore it. The sporting leagues can be as interested as they want and set up whatever testing and punishment regimes the athletes agree to. But I do not support the federal government wasting time, money, and talent chasing professional sport PED usage. They've got better things to do. I can't even imagine a world in which the government is doing such a fine job on everything else that they will have freed up enough time and resources to be justified tackling PED usage in pro sports!
Oh, OK. So if it is not important to you then it is OK to lie and impeede an investigation. Got it. Does it get less important the more money the person has? How fast they can ride a bike or hit a fastball? Perhaps the importance can be measured by the comments section.

You are confused. The Feds were not investigating the usage of PED's, they were investigating the manufacture and distribution of drugs. Bonds was told as long as he told the truth his drug use would not be an issue.

You seem very willing to set arbitrary lines of importance.....it would be helpful if you are going to do this that you take some time to understand what the case was about
 
May 9, 2009
583
0
0
Race Radio said:
Bonds was told as long as he told the truth his drug use would not be an issue.
Wouldn't have been an issue legally. But would have been an issue with fans, hall of fame voters, and history. So the assertion that all Bonds had to do was tell the truth, he'd have come out fine is crazy. He came out better this way. And even better once his federal conviction is overturned on appeal in a year
or two.
 
Jun 19, 2009
5,220
0
0
stephens said:
Wouldn't have been an issue legally. But would have been an issue with fans, hall of fame voters, and history. So the assertion that all Bonds had to do was tell the truth, he'd have come out fine is crazy. He came out better this way. And even better once his federal conviction is overturned on appeal in a year
or two.
Bonds has spent his money defending himself. How much more do you think he'll spend "appealing" his conviction? I think very f*cking little as there is no upside. He has no endorsement value, is thought to be a fraud by his fellow players and the public. Throwing more money to add more light to his late career history would seem really stupid.
He should accept his gift and go back to banging gals other than his wife.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS